Knicks Pick Up Larkin's Third Year Option

[nykballa2k4]

But it didnt take them a while to recover, they went to the finals 2 years are letting Nash walk, while Nash has yet to get there himself. Seems like Dallas recovered just fine.

I certainly hope this debate isnt becoming which organization has done better over the last decade or so....it's Dallas by a landslide.

Clearly not going that direction. The debate is that Dallas is an all-knowing wizard of oz talent evaluators

Pretty sure the discussion was about Dallas being a championship based A-class organization. The simple fact they let Nash walk for nada and still did better and continued to do so cements this.

The irony of this whole discussion is Dallas got the better player back and rid themselves of a contract that hinders their goals. They did well...thats what they do, been doing so for a while now.

Most teams are "championship based" Dallas happens to have won one. A-class organization is a fabricated term in this conversation so it really is all perception and opinion. Dallas had one great year where they had pieces playing above their pay rate. Tyson at 10 million dollars was an asset. Tyson at 14? we will find out.

Are you saying that Calderon hinders Dallas's goal for a championship?

Mavericks MO is simple, Dirk and Mercs. Cuban will make short term gambles, maintain long term flexibility so he can be in play for big name guys and try to compete with stop-gaps who can be moved. Basically the non-jerkoff version of what Morey does.

But what I can say to the point of this conversation is that Dallas has "cast away" many guys who have gone on to be successful and worthwhile so labeling Larkin a bust JUST because Dallas was willing to part with him is foolish.

[Thugger HBC]

Most teams are "championship based" Dallas happens to have won one.

I dont think so....the majority of teams are NOT in position to win or compete for a title and dont have it in their near future goals to win one. the majority just dont have the elements of a champion.

A-class organization is a fabricated term in this conversation so it really is all perception and opinion. Dallas had one great year where they had pieces playing above their pay rate. Tyson at 10 million dollars was an asset. Tyson at 14? we will find out.

I think thats the issue, talent that exceeds their exceeds their talent level is what organizations like Dallas do.

Are you saying that Calderon hinders Dallas's goal for a championship?

Yeah, i really am....his defense was subpar to be nice and his shooting was highly erratic for a high who normally shoots well. Check his shooting %'s in wins and losses. Great in wins...absolute doo-doo in losses except one. It was easy to give him up, he didnt consistently bring what they needed when it matters.

Calderon at this stage is transitional at best, not a key piece to a title winning team.

Those games were very competitive...a swing that was certainly noticeable was Calderon during a win and a loss. Not dont get me wrong, I'm certainly not laying all on him...teams lose, not indivudal players. But Calderon played a role, and I can say confidently he didnt do what was expected.

Mavericks MO is simple, Dirk and Mercs. Cuban will make short term gambles, maintain long term flexibility so he can be in play for big name guys and try to compete with stop-gaps who can be moved. Basically the non-jerkoff version of what Morey does.

Yet in still they manage to be in play to recruit and if unsuccessful they still go out and win games with the player they do recruit....usually players overlooked and players who want to be coached and part of an actual team. It's been a long time since Dallas has had a bad season....Cuban has especially ensured that.

Dallas has never signed a big name player...the majority of their known talent were acquired via trade. The main reason i see for this is most star players want things that Dallas, the city cant provide, and Dallas the team wont provide.....big name NBA players in their prime don't usually choose winning firstly - they want fame, money, and endorsements, and thats on top of the rarity of big time players leaving via free agency. Stars want control of the organization and incorproated in decisions..and Dallas doesnt provide that, Dirk imo doesnt have that power even though he is universally respected there.

Plus they have a unique system, more like the Spurs, nothing like Houston as their coach especially actually coaches. Carslisle, while being one of the best out there and highly respected doesn't have a reputation as a player's coach..he wont stroke a players ego. He'll make a player better, but he won't do it by coddling them. And if you don't perform, you won't play be playing.

He'll make you a better player, but he won't do it by coddling you. And if you don't perform, you don't play.

But what I can say to the point of this conversation is that Dallas has "cast away" many guys who have gone on to be successful and worthwhile so labeling Larkin a bust JUST because Dallas was willing to part with him is foolish.

All teams do this, even the Spurs have, but the key is do they recover, how easy do they keep the gears moving. It wasn't a fluke Dallas gave the Spurs the hardest fight of any series....they have the elements of a championship caliber team littered all over the team.

Stability, proven system and coach, and a star willing to do what's needed to put the team in position to acquire help to continue the quest. Basically no matter what moves they make...the show continues.

How many teams can say they've been in the playoffs every year of the last 15 years minus the one year their star was injured, despite never signing a big name player? Not too many.....thats A class.

[Pharmcat]

DAL challenged SAS well in the POs last year, ellis was doing really well in the playoffs...now add parsons and they have a great chance of winning the west this year

[Dr. Detfink]

DAL challenged SAS well in the POs last year, ellis was doing really well in the playoffs...now add parsons and they have a great chance of winning the west this year

Yea, Dallas will be VERY interesting to watch this season.

[Meat]

Clearly not going that direction. The debate is that Dallas is an all-knowing wizard of oz talent evaluators

Pretty sure the discussion was about Dallas being a championship based A-class organization. The simple fact they let Nash walk for nada and still did better and continued to do so cements this.

The irony of this whole discussion is Dallas got the better player back and rid themselves of a contract that hinders their goals. They did well...thats what they do, been doing so for a while now.

Most teams are "championship based" Dallas happens to have won one. A-class organization is a fabricated term in this conversation so it really is all perception and opinion. Dallas had one great year where they had pieces playing above their pay rate. Tyson at 10 million dollars was an asset. Tyson at 14? we will find out.

Are you saying that Calderon hinders Dallas's goal for a championship?

Mavericks MO is simple, Dirk and Mercs. Cuban will make short term gambles, maintain long term flexibility so he can be in play for big name guys and try to compete with stop-gaps who can be moved. Basically the non-jerkoff version of what Morey does.

But what I can say to the point of this conversation is that Dallas has "cast away" many guys who have gone on to be successful and worthwhile so labeling Larkin a bust JUST because Dallas was willing to part with him is foolish.

you think 11 50 win seasons since 2000 equals one good season?

[nykballa2k4]

Most teams are "championship based" Dallas happens to have won one.

I dont think so....the majority of teams are NOT in position to win or compete for a title and dont have it in their near future goals to win one. the majority just dont have the elements of a champion.

There are teams who only aspire to the playoffs, but there are about 10 teams every year who have the championship in mind (this year for example: DAL, SAS, OKC, LAC, MEM, PHX, HOU, MIA, CLE, BKN, NYK, CHI, GS)
who has elements? that will be decided as the year goes on.

A-class organization is a fabricated term in this conversation so it really is all perception and opinion. Dallas had one great year where they had pieces playing above their pay rate. Tyson at 10 million dollars was an asset. Tyson at 14? we will find out.

I think thats the issue, talent that exceeds their exceeds their talent level is what organizations like Dallas do.

Dallas is frugal. We agree.

Are you saying that Calderon hinders Dallas's goal for a championship?

Yeah, i really am....his defense was subpar to be nice and his shooting was highly erratic for a high who normally shoots well. Check his shooting %'s in wins and losses. Great in wins...absolute doo-doo in losses except one. It was easy to give him up, he didnt consistently bring what they needed when it matters.

Calderon at this stage is transitional at best, not a key piece to a title winning team.

Those games were very competitive...a swing that was certainly noticeable was Calderon during a win and a loss. Not dont get me wrong, I'm certainly not laying all on him...teams lose, not indivudal players. But Calderon played a role, and I can say confidently he didnt do what was expected.

Same could be said of Felton...
Calderon didn't have his best season, but from watching the Mavericks, I see that there were greater weaknesses.

Mavericks MO is simple, Dirk and Mercs. Cuban will make short term gambles, maintain long term flexibility so he can be in play for big name guys and try to compete with stop-gaps who can be moved. Basically the non-jerkoff version of what Morey does.

Yet in still they manage to be in play to recruit and if unsuccessful they still go out and win games with the player they do recruit....usually players overlooked and players who want to be coached and part of an actual team. It's been a long time since Dallas has had a bad season....Cuban has especially ensured that.

Dallas has never signed a big name player...the majority of their known talent were acquired via trade. The main reason i see for this is most star players want things that Dallas, the city cant provide, and Dallas the team wont provide.....big name NBA players in their prime don't usually choose winning firstly - they want fame, money, and endorsements, and thats on top of the rarity of big time players leaving via free agency. Stars want control of the organization and incorproated in decisions..and Dallas doesnt provide that, Dirk imo doesnt have that power even though he is universally respected there.

Plus they have a unique system, more like the Spurs, nothing like Houston as their coach especially actually coaches. Carslisle, while being one of the best out there and highly respected doesn't have a reputation as a player's coach..he wont stroke a players ego. He'll make a player better, but he won't do it by coddling them. And if you don't perform, you won't play be playing.

He'll make you a better player, but he won't do it by coddling you. And if you don't perform, you don't play.

My argument was about the Mavs approach to FA and trades. The culture in DAL is fantastic with an entirely in sync front office and a coach who is a clear top 5 coach EVERY SEASON. Houston does not have that so that is where the comparison ends.

Very true about the coddling. Houston is the miley cyrus of star f*cking whereas Mavs are more like Jeter. You know they are doing it, but they just seem so effortless.

But what I can say to the point of this conversation is that Dallas has "cast away" many guys who have gone on to be successful and worthwhile so labeling Larkin a bust JUST because Dallas was willing to part with him is foolish.

All teams do this, even the Spurs have, but the key is do they recover, how easy do they keep the gears moving. It wasn't a fluke Dallas gave the Spurs the hardest fight of any series....they have the elements of a championship caliber team littered all over the team.

Stability, proven system and coach, and a star willing to do what's needed to put the team in position to acquire help to continue the quest. Basically no matter what moves they make...the show continues.

How many teams can say they've been in the playoffs every year of the last 15 years minus the one year their star was injured, despite never signing a big name player? Not too many.....thats A class.

Yes mavericks do have stability and a good coach (saying the same thing twice) but that is YOUR definition of A class I suppose.

As for recovering, the point this debate began on was Shane Larkin being a scrubby bust vs him being a potential role player. Mavericks, despite being a class-A1 steak-ChrisBrousard-Sauce franchise, have been known to use prospects as assets, and those prospects have sometimes turned out to be good, ergo Larkin is not a bust simply because the Mavs parted with him.

[nykballa2k4]

Pretty sure the discussion was about Dallas being a championship based A-class organization. The simple fact they let Nash walk for nada and still did better and continued to do so cements this.

The irony of this whole discussion is Dallas got the better player back and rid themselves of a contract that hinders their goals. They did well...thats what they do, been doing so for a while now.

Most teams are "championship based" Dallas happens to have won one. A-class organization is a fabricated term in this conversation so it really is all perception and opinion. Dallas had one great year where they had pieces playing above their pay rate. Tyson at 10 million dollars was an asset. Tyson at 14? we will find out.

Are you saying that Calderon hinders Dallas's goal for a championship?

Mavericks MO is simple, Dirk and Mercs. Cuban will make short term gambles, maintain long term flexibility so he can be in play for big name guys and try to compete with stop-gaps who can be moved. Basically the non-jerkoff version of what Morey does.

But what I can say to the point of this conversation is that Dallas has "cast away" many guys who have gone on to be successful and worthwhile so labeling Larkin a bust JUST because Dallas was willing to part with him is foolish.

you think 11 50 win seasons since 2000 equals one good season?

great does not equal good.

They had 1 great season (actually I misspoke, they had 2, 2006 and the year they won it all). The rest were good years, but not great ones.

great = finals, good = playoffs round 2. alright = playoffs,

[Thugger HBC]

There are teams who only aspire to the playoffs, but there are about 10 teams every year who have the championship in mind (this year for example: DAL, SAS, OKC, LAC, MEM, PHX, HOU, MIA, CLE, BKN, NYK, CHI, GS)
who has elements? that will be decided as the year goes on.

What's in the mind and what the team actually has is different. There not 10 teams with titles chances every year. Over the last 30 years the NBA has only had eight different champions—Lakers, Bulls, Celtics, Spurs, Pistons, Rockets, Heat, Dallas. Perhaps we can round it up to 10 in 30 years by including the runner up but alot of those were not close.

Dallas is frugal. We agree.

I wont, thats not what I said.

Same could be said of Felton...
Calderon didn't have his best season, but from watching the Mavericks, I see that there were greater weaknesses.

Felton was terrible even in wins, lol at thinking he was great....it just wasnt as bad as his losses. In wins last year felton was a 44% shooter and still roughly. NBA average in threes at 34%. Thats average at best combined with no defense at all.

My argument was about the Mavs approach to FA and trades. The culture in DAL is fantastic with an entirely in sync front office and a coach who is a clear top 5 coach EVERY SEASON. Houston does not have that so that is where the comparison ends.

Very true about the coddling. Houston is the miley cyrus of star f*cking whereas Mavs are more like Jeter. You know they are doing it, but they just seem so effortless.

There is no comparison in regards to Houston...none at all.

Yes mavericks do have stability and a good coach (saying the same thing twice) but that is YOUR definition of A class I suppose.

As for recovering, the point this debate began on was Shane Larkin being a scrubby bust vs him being a potential role player. Mavericks, despite being a class-A1 steak-ChrisBrousard-Sauce franchise, have been known to use prospects as assets, and those prospects have sometimes turned out to be good, ergo Larkin is not a bust simply because the Mavs parted with him.

I honestly have no other to describe "A" class. If stability, proven system, and top notch coaching isnt the bar I have no idea what is. They even won a title when the majority of the league has not and participating in another during the same span.

[dakomish23]

I like the fact that we picked up his option for next year, DJ Augustin is a good example of a similar player with the same skill set that a lot of teams gave away without really giving him a chance.

Shane can get into the lane at will but he never looks to shoot kinda like Prigs so we need him to look at the basket more for his own offense and if things do go south for him in NY then 1.2 mill is easily moved.

Not related - but we didn't pursue Augustin and kept Chris Smith on the roster. Thx CAA

[dakomish23]

Listened to the Dallas beat writer speak about Larkin last yr. he credits the kid for getting them in the playoffs with a big performance in PHX who they ended up beating out for the 8th spot.

Everyone is looking for a superstar with young guys. How about just a guy who can be a part of your future in some capacity? How often does that happen with the Knicks?!!!

Ppl will appreciate this kid when you stop expecting the told of him. Let him be a role guy and you'll see the value.

Exactly. Shump, Larkin, Timmy, Early, Aldrich, Acy.

We don't need them to become superstars/all-stars, we just need them to become good.

Last time the Knicks had a collection of Good players, STAT came and then Melo.

/if they're Good then we can land a star like Gasol.

Yep. And if they're good rotation guys we can focus on another close to max for another guy in 16. I think that's Horford.

Dream scenario - our young guys continue their growth, Melo stays in his prime, we get MGasol in 15 and Horford in 16.

[dakomish23]

On the Dallas argument - there's a good chance they land their future PG next yr in FA. What if they offer Jackson a max?

[GardenFaith]

I like the fact that we picked up his option for next year, DJ Augustin is a good example of a similar player with the same skill set that a lot of teams gave away without really giving him a chance.

Shane can get into the lane at will but he never looks to shoot kinda like Prigs so we need him to look at the basket more for his own offense and if things do go south for him in NY then 1.2 mill is easily moved.

Not related - but we didn't pursue Augustin and kept Chris Smith on the roster. Thx CAA

Wow how did Chris Smith make his way into this conversation lol