Knicks VS. Hawks PG. We lost...again.

[FKF]

You'll have to wait. Jose isn't practising yet.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using RealGM Forums mobile app

yep this will be a long November...

[Jay10]

at least the knicks have 4 straight home games starting tomorrow night against the hawks.

[next2spike]

If you pay attention, our rotations are correct. 1 pass away deny 2 passes away you are in help forcing everything to the baseline... It is those that are in help need to run the shooters off the line, Pitino style.

Offensively, we just need to stick with the triangle. Soon as we miss a few or it gets close, its back to pick and rolls and iso. We are changing the mindset of these players, it is going to take a while... Or we may just not have the right/high IQ personnel to play the right way.

And for those who quoted me on my Wear comments from the CLE game. Looks like a nice kid, but he is not an NBA player, at least right now. Rather have the Greek rookie instead of Wear to help his development.

[Capn'O]

Melo scored 62 points in a game less than a year ago. He hasn't fallen off that far over one summer. He'll be aight.

[GYK]

Melo still works to hard IMO.
This season he's been a great ball mover. Most likely to make the correct pass and least likely to get a turnover.
The biggest problem is that he still relies on converting the shot. Melo career has been a bucket maker. Ideally that's great but other stars make as many free throws as FGM. Melo has to play the rules not the game. He has to get to line. Yea we love that our star is actually great at making the shot but we would take the whistle and the eventual win more then the warrior title.
I wanna twitter him. Don't know the tweet tho. Maybe something like "Melo play for the foul. You'll get the win"
But something more informative and fire boiling. It's just so many stars throughout history getting by on FT's. That's the biggest problem I always had with Melo. Make the refs blow the whistle.

[FKF]

I'm trying to understand why fans are mad about the Knicks play when we knew we were going to suck to start out, although I get upset in hope that we pull a game out. We're missing 3 key players (that's a possible 30pt didderence from what they avg), two being our point guards. Shump and Larkins are good players but neither of them can control an offense.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not mad.
I'm just concerned about long term accomplishments of this new regime, Jackson has lots of flexibility coming into next summer with a lottery pick and cap space to use.

These games this season will tell us who will be here long term, and who won't. This team is filled with guys with a gun pointed on their face and pressure to showcase abilities.
I like Melo, I want him to succeed and lead this team in the future, but last night's game was an indication of him losing focus.
Who cares we're losing the game, don't stand around yelling at mates or referees and put your head down when your shots don't fall, stand up and execute, pass the ball, move without the ball, make yourself available within the system, keep moving.

Yes we have injuries, but we should still compete against these average no contending Eastern teams.
Melo's our best player, and he's healthy. For years we cried Stoudemire's injuries, he looks better than the past three years, healthy. Shump, JR, Timmy, Dalembert our starting C, they're all healthy.
Post game, Melo argued the team didn't adjust to the Hawks defense, Shump said the hawks defense didn't affect them, and complained the offense got stagnant and stopped doing what was done previously. They're not on the same page but I tend to agree with Shump.

Review the first four possessions of the 3rd quarter when we had a 13 pt lead.
#1 Melo forced a contested J
#2 Tim forced a quick three
#3 Dalembert stopped the movement and forced a low post move (yet scored)
#4 Tim forced a quick layup and then picked up his 4th foul off frustration
Shump had a nice assist to Melo but then again
#6 Melo forced a step back J
#7 Larkin forced a tough jumper too

Too many bad shots, seconds later, Atlanta was back within six.

[GONYK]

Melo scored 62 points in a game less than a year ago. He hasn't fallen off that far over one summer. He'll be aight.

He was scoring almost 30 and hitting game winners a week ago.

I don't know where this decline talk is popping up from

[Thugger HBC]

Melo scored 62 points in a game less than a year ago. He hasn't fallen off that far over one summer. He'll be aight.

He was scoring almost 30 and hitting game winners a week ago.

I don't know where this decline talk is popping up from

Scorers score, thats what they do, give em shots, they'll put up points.

Kobe is leading the league in scoring, but definitely is a declined player. Players who can score dont lose that ability, they may get worse at it but still have a few good games here and there.

He isnt just missing shots, I'm being nice by attributing it to a decline. Not like I wasnt saying it during the summer.

[GONYK]

Melo scored 62 points in a game less than a year ago. He hasn't fallen off that far over one summer. He'll be aight.

He was scoring almost 30 and hitting game winners a week ago.

I don't know where this decline talk is popping up from

Scorers score, thats what they do, give em shots, they'll put up points.

Kobe is leading the league in scoring, but definitely is a declined player. Players who can score dont lose that ability, they may get worse at it but still have a few good games here and there.

He isnt just missing shots, I'm being nice by attributing it to a decline. Not like I wasnt saying it during the summer.

I'm not sure by what measure you are getting decline from. Nearly every indicator of performance is on an uptick for Melo the last 2 years.

I'm not saying he won't decline naturally simply from being older (even Lebron is starting to show some wear around the edges), but I don't see why you feel that it has anything to do with the last few games.

He's had slumps before

[Thugger HBC]

He was scoring almost 30 and hitting game winners a week ago.

I don't know where this decline talk is popping up from

Scorers score, thats what they do, give em shots, they'll put up points.

Kobe is leading the league in scoring, but definitely is a declined player. Players who can score dont lose that ability, they may get worse at it but still have a few good games here and there.

He isnt just missing shots, I'm being nice by attributing it to a decline. Not like I wasnt saying it during the summer.

I'm not sure by what measure you are getting decline from. Nearly every indicator of performance is on an uptick for Melo the last 2 years.

I'm not saying he won't decline naturally simply from being older (even Lebron is starting to show some wear around the edges), but I don't see why you feel that it has anything to do with the last few games.

He's had slumps before

Not so sure about that. Playoff performance as a Knick is worse than the vast majority of years he was with Denver.

Even in the regular season he's scored 28 several times WITHOUT the high usage of the three ball, matter of fact his career high average is in Denver as well. I do think the infusion of the three ball skews his production, but he certainly was a better player prior to NY. No uptick at all. He's always been a good passer, rebounder, defender when he desires.

I dont expect him hang at 38% for a full season, but I did have concerns of him declining prior to the season.

[GONYK]

Scorers score, thats what they do, give em shots, they'll put up points.

Kobe is leading the league in scoring, but definitely is a declined player. Players who can score dont lose that ability, they may get worse at it but still have a few good games here and there.

He isnt just missing shots, I'm being nice by attributing it to a decline. Not like I wasnt saying it during the summer.

I'm not sure by what measure you are getting decline from. Nearly every indicator of performance is on an uptick for Melo the last 2 years.

I'm not saying he won't decline naturally simply from being older (even Lebron is starting to show some wear around the edges), but I don't see why you feel that it has anything to do with the last few games.

He's had slumps before

Not so sure about that. Playoff performance as a Knick is worse than the vast majority of years he was with Denver.

Even in the regular season he's scored 28 several times WITHOUT the high usage of the three ball, matter of fact his career high average is in Denver as well. I do think the infusion of the three ball skews his production, but he certainly was a better player prior to NY. No uptick at all. He's always been a good passer, rebounder, defender when he desires.

I dont expect him hang at 38% for a full season, but I did have concerns of him declining prior to the season.

I think there is definitely a decline from his Denver years. Impossible for there not to be.

I don't think there is a decline from last season. Definitely not one that is discernible this early into the season.

[Thugger HBC]

I'm not sure by what measure you are getting decline from. Nearly every indicator of performance is on an uptick for Melo the last 2 years.

I'm not saying he won't decline naturally simply from being older (even Lebron is starting to show some wear around the edges), but I don't see why you feel that it has anything to do with the last few games.

He's had slumps before

Not so sure about that. Playoff performance as a Knick is worse than the vast majority of years he was with Denver.

Even in the regular season he's scored 28 several times WITHOUT the high usage of the three ball, matter of fact his career high average is in Denver as well. I do think the infusion of the three ball skews his production, but he certainly was a better player prior to NY. No uptick at all. He's always been a good passer, rebounder, defender when he desires.

I dont expect him hang at 38% for a full season, but I did have concerns of him declining prior to the season.

I think there is definitely a decline from his Denver years. Impossible for there not to be.

I don't think there is a decline from last season. Definitely not one that is discernible this early into the season.

We traded for melo at the age of 26, why should there have been an expected decline at that age even though there was? Last season he led the league in minutes....adjust the minutes to his average, and thats what he was, his average.

I'm not pointing to merely these games, they only cement the belief, the decline started last year.

[nykballa2k4]

Let me review:
Amare is horrible can't play offense, doesn't exist on defense
Dalembert is useless
Larkin's name is appropriate since he has no J
Shumpert sucks
Melo is declining, barely an all-star
JR is an albatross contract
Alderich/Wear white guys who suck
Clean Anthony is not worth learning his name
Acy is 3rd string on a good day
Jason Smith is a homelessmans Bargnani

oh yea and Calderon2Bargnani will be our saviors.

Did I get it right?

[GYK]

Give me a break. Melo isnt declining.
He's in a shooting slump.
The Triangle doesn't work in this era and our star player is on the decline?

[don't panac]

it looks pretty simple to me.

the team is learning a new (team-oriented system).
that takes some time to become effective.
until they learn it decently they have to rely on individual performances.
we have one single player who can make a (positive) difference in a game with some sort of consistency
when melo plays at his normal level, we are competitive, when he doesn't, we are crap
unfortunately, that one player is playing poorly right now, so we suck

the injuries to Calderon, Prigioni and Bargnani do not help either.

[NYKat]

Re: Melo

In his career, he's usually been at his best when he has been paired with a headstrong high IQ floor general who knows how to check his ass when he starts to go rogue... (see: Chauncey, J.Kidd)

If that pattern follows, the return of Jose Calderon will be the best thing that happens to Melo and our offense.

[Phish Tank]

Look you can't teach mental toughness. Some players on this team are bitch-made. They can be easily rattled given any type of adversity.

Similarly this was like the pre-phil Lakers and the post-shaq Lakers. In the former, phil was easily able to transform talent to chips. In the latter, it took a few seasons in order to change the mentality.

For us, it will continue to be ugly unless players get rid of the bitch in themselves. Unfortunately, most of these try to prove their toughness through stupid tattoos and not by willpower


Sent from the mind of world peace

[ag3]

at least the knicks have 4 straight home games starting tomorrow night against the hawks.

I think they go 2-2.
4-7 out of the homestand.

[dakomish23]

Re: Melo

In his career, he's usually been at his best when he has been paired with a headstrong high IQ floor general who knows how to check his ass when he starts to go rogue... (see: Chauncey, J.Kidd)

If that pattern follows, the return of Jose Calderon will be the best thing that happens to Melo and our offense.

Yep.

We win on his back. No coincidence the two games we win is when he's solid and hits the game winner / game closer. The whole world knows if Melo is on, we can win. That's why he sees the most double teams in the NBA by far.

You're going to will only so many games completely relying on one person when the team is this bad defensively. We just don't have the basic defensive fundamentals. The fouls we commit are putrid.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/ ... Difference

The worst differential in the league.

In our 3 losses:

CHI 30 fts NYK 17 fts
WAS 19 fts NYK 19fts
DET 33 fts NYK 10 fts
BKN 26 fts NYK 21 fts
ATL 36 fts NYK 11 fts

OPP 144 ft NYK 78 fts

The opposition is almost doubling our FTA. That's unbelievable if you don't watch the games. Useless fouls at the end of the shot clock or 22 ft out. They don't seem to understand the basic concept of not having to hack. I'm ok with Shump pressing and getting a foul here and there. I'm ok with Dalembert going up and protecting the rim and using a foul. What I'm not ok with is THJ fouling in the backcourt because he missed a shot or JR needlessly reaching in 20 ft out then complaining. Could only assume that with Calderon and Bargs the opponent might shoot even more.

It's a work in progress. We gotta let the young guns play. yada yada yada. Where is the discipline? I'll take the losses based on talent differential but not on basics.

[moocow007]

And again with the agendas... Someone got someone under thumb.