Did Phil Jackson fool fans or did the fans fool themselves?

[GetItDone]

Fans fooled themselves.

Also more like believing in the media hype. From Phil as this legendary mythical basketball magician who will make everything fine and dandy automatically to the hype of the triangle offense. All I heard this offseason was triangle triangle triangle. The triangle offense is great system...of course when you have players running it such as Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, etc...not...Melo, Amare, Dalembert, JR, Shumpert, etc.

[Sprewell4Three]

I know it's hard for fans to listen to people to tell them to be patient but what's the other alternative? Throwing players, coaches and GMs under the bus this early into the season is not very constructive

[prophet_of_rage]

it's a bit of both. Phil Jackson has played some gamesmanship to try to deflect blame. The scouting report was a nice bit of fan bait. Basically said all the players were poor defenders. And it covered over the fact that Phil has said numerous times that to teach the triangle it takes a lot of time working on offence and you don't have as much time to practice defence. He skated by not getting his man in Steve Kerr and had to overpay to keep Carmelo or lose the most valuable building block going forward. Then came the talk of the vaunted triangle offence itself and how it failed elsewhere because nobody adopted it purely.

The fans bought that Jackson meant fundamental change and that his arrival meant free agents by the boatload would be coming. So far while he rid us of CAA all he's done is bring in his old gang to replace them and his former players weren't taking any paycuts to come.

We did rail against the prediction that the Knicks would only win 31 games this year. Now we have half the posting fanbase clamouring for a tank.

[GONYK]

I still don't quite understand why anyone has any type of investment in this year. Win or Lose, it was always a placeholder year.

Nobody should have been fooled. Was it expected that this team would be this bad? No, but it also wasn't expected that Calderon would miss the first 3 weeks.

Also, everyone should have expected the defense to be awful.

[Capn'O]

I still don't quite understand why anyone has any type of investment in this year. Win or Lose, it was always a placeholder year.

Nobody should have been fooled. Was it expected that this team would be this bad? No, but it also wasn't expected that Calderon would miss the first 3 weeks.

Also, everyone should have expected the defense to be awful.

Exactly. The team lost it's opportunity to have any sort of run out of the gate when that happened. Now, we wait for the contracts to expire and see what kind of pick we get. It is what it is.

[MaseInYourFace]

it's a bit of both. Phil Jackson has played some gamesmanship to try to deflect blame. The scouting report was a nice bit of fan bait. Basically said all the players were poor defenders. And it covered over the fact that Phil has said numerous times that to teach the triangle it takes a lot of time working on offence and you don't have as much time to practice defence. He skated by not getting his man in Steve Kerr and had to overpay to keep Carmelo or lose the most valuable building block going forward. Then came the talk of the vaunted triangle offence itself and how it failed elsewhere because nobody adopted it purely.

The fans bought that Jackson meant fundamental change and that his arrival meant free agents by the boatload would be coming. So far while he rid us of CAA all he's done is bring in his old gang to replace them and his former players weren't taking any paycuts to come.

We did rail against the prediction that the Knicks would only win 31 games this year. Now we have half the posting fanbase clamouring for a tank.

Golden State was a better job. I don't see how you can really blame Jackson for that. Kerr would have been an idiot to take Knick job over Warriors job.

[BKAY]

How did Phil fool anybody? His scouting report basically said...."this team SUCKS". Its gonna be a down year people, no need to go off the deep end and drown in the haterade. The primary objective of this season is to establish the system, that means a lot of losses will come as we transition to an almost complete opposite system and culture that the Knicks have been accustomed to.

[casesuggs6]

Phil put together a pretty decent team in the off-season. He hired a rookie coach who has a wealth of knowledge in the game of basketball. He's said that he will build a championship team.
Right now, besides making a trade here or there, there not much more Phil can do. To me he's done what was needed so far.

The team on the other hand is not. There's no way Phil's the reason for that.

So the fans are fooling themselves if they are putting any blame on Phil for the Knick struggles.

[rammagen]

most fans thought 500 this yr would be great so no the knowledgeable fans know what we are looking at

[Greenie]

Go back to preseason projection threads and most expected us to fight for a playoff spot in a weak East. Who was fooled?

this

We are the type of team that can go anywhere from the 2nd seed all the way to out the damn playoffs. We are that inconsistent. We have been for years.

[Greenie]

it's a bit of both. Phil Jackson has played some gamesmanship to try to deflect blame. The scouting report was a nice bit of fan bait. Basically said all the players were poor defenders. And it covered over the fact that Phil has said numerous times that to teach the triangle it takes a lot of time working on offence and you don't have as much time to practice defence. He skated by not getting his man in Steve Kerr and had to overpay to keep Carmelo or lose the most valuable building block going forward. Then came the talk of the vaunted triangle offence itself and how it failed elsewhere because nobody adopted it purely.

The fans bought that Jackson meant fundamental change and that his arrival meant free agents by the boatload would be coming. So far while he rid us of CAA all he's done is bring in his old gang to replace them and his former players weren't taking any paycuts to come.

We did rail against the prediction that the Knicks would only win 31 games this year. Now we have half the posting fanbase clamouring for a tank.

He did not overpay Carmelo. Stop that.

[twix2500]

you guys fooled yourself if you thought that phil plan would have an immediate impact. He said multiple times this was going to take years. The only piece of the puzzle that Phil has is Melo and thats it. Everyone are revolving players.

[Besart19]

I had mentioned this when it was announced that Jackson would be the GM. While I was thrilled (Phil Jackson is a legend, a former Knick, blah, blah), I did question how good he could be...as a GM. A role that he really has no track record or experience with. As a head coach and motivator? Obviously, none better and no question. But as a GM? Hard to say that that was a coup for the Knicks. One would hope that he would be able to carry his ability to get players to play "the right way" to his ability to determine which of those qualities apply to players that he would either draft, sign or trade for. Hard to tell how well the translation has gone given the short time period and lack of starting resources. Jason Smith appears to have been a flub but that's about it so far.

If he fully recovers after the three surgeries he had these past 3 years, he can still coach this team next season... Remember how Jeannie was actually convincing him to coach the Knicks!?

And he would still have the luxury to leave Fish lead the team in away games during the season!!

[Besart19]

Go back to preseason projection threads and most expected us to fight for a playoff spot in a weak East. Who was fooled?

this

We are the type of team that can go anywhere from the 2nd seed all the way to out the damn playoffs. We are that inconsistent. We have been for years.

4th-14th

[Besart19]

Not giving up THJ and/or draft pick for Lowry was a bad decision... big mistake!!

Chandler/Bargs/Cole
Amare/Tyler/Clark
Melo/Morrow/Wear
Shump/JR/Brown
Lowry/Prigs/Galloway

=> Still we could've traded away Chandler and JR at the draft night!!

Also Chandler/Melo/Shump/Kobe/Lowry would've been an option... or let all those three bigs expire, tank hard (as we're already do; especially with Melo down) and go for a top pick and Gasol or LMA in FA

Gasol or Okafor
Towns or LMA
Melo
Shump
Lowry

[MaseInYourFace]

Not giving up THJ and/or draft pick for Lowry was a bad decision... big mistake!!

Chandler/Bargs/Cole
Amare/Tyler/Clark
Melo/Morrow/Wear
Shump/JR/Brown
Lowry/Prigs/Galloway

=> Still we could've traded away Chandler and JR at the draft night!!

Also Chandler/Melo/Shump/Kobe/Lowry would've been an option... or let all those three bigs expire, tank hard (as we're already do; especially with Melo down) and go for a top pick and Gasol or LMA in FA

Gasol or Okafor
Towns or LMA
Melo
Shump
Lowry

I don't think Lowry is worth a 1st round pick personally.

[kingquan316]

Based on some of the expectations and reaction I read so far this season, I say the fans fool themselves.

[kingquan316]

Not giving up THJ and/or draft pick for Lowry was a bad decision... big mistake!!

Chandler/Bargs/Cole
Amare/Tyler/Clark
Melo/Morrow/Wear
Shump/JR/Brown
Lowry/Prigs/Galloway

=> Still we could've traded away Chandler and JR at the draft night!!

Also Chandler/Melo/Shump/Kobe/Lowry would've been an option... or let all those three bigs expire, tank hard (as we're already do; especially with Melo down) and go for a top pick and Gasol or LMA in FA

Gasol or Okafor
Towns or LMA
Melo
Shump
Lowry

I don't think Lowry is worth a 1st round pick personally.

Lowry is good, but not great. Don't think I would ever look back and regret not getting him.

[Manhattan Project]

Medical staff fooled us all, yet again. Bargnani and Calderon day to day from the preseason opener, how's that going? Bargnani hurt himself again and probably won't see the floor this year at this rate. Calderon finally just got back and doesn't even look close to a 100%. Melo with a back injury... just send him home for the entire year.

[GYK]

everything been implied it was rebuilding year. Phil didn't fool us. The media covers the Knicks non-stop.