realistically what and who were NOT getting this summer

[mpharris36]

I know this is crazy but if you are able to get rid of Calderon and JR's contract which shouldn't be impossible and have two max slots would it be impossible to convince Gasol and Aldridge both to come?

That would be an unstoppable front line of Melo, Aldridge, and Gasol. And most people say why would Gasol come or why would Aldridge come? Well maybe if you brought them both in a room with Melo and said we can pair all 3 of you together what would you say? would there be a chance they might bite.

You can make the argument that you are in the eastern conference and you could make the argument that that could make them better than the teams they are leaving.

I know crazy but it might be a reason for them to leave if they know the other is coming along with Melo.

[riter]

if we could land Asik and Milsap both for 12-14 mil depending on cap then our front court would be very sexy indeed

I have to disagree with Millsap. I believe a Asik/Melo front court can get us to the eastern conference---but only if they're surrounded by athletes. Asik/Melo just like Hibbert/Melo would be great in the half court--but
I think a freakish athlete like Draymond or Thad is what's needed to balance that out.
Millsap is like a very poor man's Melo--who uses up the same space on the floor and who is also 29.

something like
Asik/Bynum
Melo
Thad
Shump
Calderone

would be much more balanced. Yes, I said Bynum damnit.


I even think an Asik/Melo/Shump front court is a better balance----saving the money for a #2 scorer instead of an aging role player like Milsap.

[NoLayupRule]

if we could land Asik and Milsap both for 12-14 mil depending on cap then our front court would be very sexy indeed

I have to disagree with Millsap. I believe a Asik/Melo front court can get us to the eastern conference---but only if they're surrounded by athletes. Asik/Melo just like Hibbert/Melo would be great in the half court--but
I think a freakish athlete like Draymond or Thad is what's needed to balance that out.
Millsap is like a very poor man's Melo--who uses up the same space on the floor and who is also 29.

something like
Asik/Bynum
Melo
Thad
Shump
Calderone

would be much more balanced. Yes, I said Bynum damnit.


I even think an Asik/Melo/Shump front court is a better balance----saving the money for a #2 scorer instead of an aging role player like Milsap.

Id rather Jeff Green than Thad Young if we were going small and athletic

However I think Milsap can defend the 4 and spread the floor better and I am more in favor of developing a big front court than a small one

we can always go small if needed

[prophet_of_rage]

I know this is crazy but if you are able to get rid of Calderon and JR's contract which shouldn't be impossible and have two max slots would it be impossible to convince Gasol and Aldridge both to come?

That would be an unstoppable front line of Melo, Aldridge, and Gasol. And most people say why would Gasol come or why would Aldridge come? Well maybe if you brought them both in a room with Melo and said we can pair all 3 of you together what would you say? would there be a chance they might bite.

You can make the argument that you are in the eastern conference and you could make the argument that that could make them better than the teams they are leaving.

I know crazy but it might be a reason for them to leave if they know the other is coming along with Melo.

And a wedding toast is how we got Amar'e and Melo. The players would have to willingly collude to do that. And you would have to know before you got rid of JR and Calderon. But then you're saying look, it's better to play with Carmelo than any of your current more successful teammates.

Why is that? And is that front line really unstoppable? We complain that Amar'e and Melo occupy the same spots on the floor. We complained even more with Chandler. Where are LMA and Gasol going to play with an aging shoot first Carmelo trying to get his closer and closer to the basket.

[yb90]

I think I would go for Tobias Harris over Millsap even though MIllsap may be better.

Boing!

head explodes


this isn't a constant merry go round of potential, disappointment and starting over


or shouldn't be



its time to bring in the right guys at the right time not gambling constantly

It is not just about potential because he is improving every year. He is adding range to his shooting and he can attack the basket. The way he has been attacking the boards since going to Orlando has been awesome. He has been averaging 7.5 rebs while in Orlando, 8.3 rebs per 36.

I like Millsap but I am not sure he would get the Knicks over the hump. I would rather bank on a guy who can duplicate Millsap's production at a lower coast while having the potential to be a better player. Tobias provides a short term fix and at 22 gives them a future building block. To me Tobias is what people thought Jeff Green would be. He is more efficient and rebounds better than Green now or when he was the same age.

[NoLayupRule]

I think I would go for Tobias Harris over Millsap even though MIllsap may be better.

Boing!

head explodes


this isn't a constant merry go round of potential, disappointment and starting over


or shouldn't be



its time to bring in the right guys at the right time not gambling constantly

It is not just about potential because he is improving every year. He is adding range to his shooting and he can attack the basket. The way he has been attacking the boards since going to Orlando has been awesome. He has been averaging 7.5 rebs while in Orlando, 8.3 rebs per 36.

I like Millsap but I am not sure he would get the Knicks over the hump. I would rather bank on a guy who can duplicate Millsap's production at a lower coast while having the potential to be a better player. Tobias provides a short term fix and at 22 gives them a future building block. To me Tobias is what people thought Jeff Green would be. He is more efficient and rebounds better than Green now or when he was the same age.

problem with Harris is that he's a restricted free agent so Orl can match anything

if we offer a reasonable deal they will match
if we offer an excessive deal we will overpay potentially

[yb90]

Boing!

head explodes


this isn't a constant merry go round of potential, disappointment and starting over


or shouldn't be



its time to bring in the right guys at the right time not gambling constantly

It is not just about potential because he is improving every year. He is adding range to his shooting and he can attack the basket. The way he has been attacking the boards since going to Orlando has been awesome. He has been averaging 7.5 rebs while in Orlando, 8.3 rebs per 36.

I like Millsap but I am not sure he would get the Knicks over the hump. I would rather bank on a guy who can duplicate Millsap's production at a lower coast while having the potential to be a better player. Tobias provides a short term fix and at 22 gives them a future building block. To me Tobias is what people thought Jeff Green would be. He is more efficient and rebounds better than Green now or when he was the same age.

problem with Harris is that he's a restricted free agent so Orl can match anything

if we offer a reasonable deal they will match
if we offer an excessive deal we will overpay potentially

That might be true but he would still be cheaper than Millsap. I just don't think it is smart to put all your chips on a 2 year window when you can get production in that 2 year window and also down the line.

[NoLayupRule]

It is not just about potential because he is improving every year. He is adding range to his shooting and he can attack the basket. The way he has been attacking the boards since going to Orlando has been awesome. He has been averaging 7.5 rebs while in Orlando, 8.3 rebs per 36.

I like Millsap but I am not sure he would get the Knicks over the hump. I would rather bank on a guy who can duplicate Millsap's production at a lower coast while having the potential to be a better player. Tobias provides a short term fix and at 22 gives them a future building block. To me Tobias is what people thought Jeff Green would be. He is more efficient and rebounds better than Green now or when he was the same age.

problem with Harris is that he's a restricted free agent so Orl can match anything

if we offer a reasonable deal they will match
if we offer an excessive deal we will overpay potentially

That might be true but he would still be cheaper than Millsap. I just don't think it is smart to put all your chips on a 2 year window when you can get production in that 2 year window and also down the line.

so you think we could offer harris 7 mil a year over 4 years and scare away Orl?
Its possible
it'd be a lot of money for him but he might be worth it

I think its too much for a guy with his experience

[Scalabrine]

Ok, Phil is a lucky guy and the Knicks are overdue for some luck for sure. But we know better. Were not getting lucky this summer, were getting what we always get which is an opportunity to overspend, gamble and roll the dice.


What were not getting:


LeMarcus Aldridge - Yeah, UFA LMA is staying in portland. You know it, I know it, he knows it. I wish it were not true but it is.

Marc Gasol - yep. He's staying in Mem or going to LA. Were not gonna land him. I know it, so apparently does the NY Post as they told us the other day, and so should we all. Sad but true.

the top 3 pick in the draft - I wish we were but we won't. Were currently the 3rd worst team in the league behind Phily and Det and just ahead of Cha, Mini, LA and Utah. Unlike those teams we have upside we haven't tapped. We will end up as the 5-7th worst team in the league and get the 5-7th pick. Im not reading tea leaves here Im just being realistic and calling out the fact that we've never moved up in the draft ever and have only gotten the top pick once and never again in the top 5. Okafor and Towns and Mudiay will go elsewhere and we might have to send our pick off to land a player to upgrade this terrible front line.

Paul Misap - hes getting his cash in Atl or he's getting a very big payday and either way I really don't see it happening here. He might get a near max deal and I think Phil won't want to be the one to give it to him.

Kawhi Leonard - sadly he will stay in SA. Why wouldn't he?

Jimmy Butler - I think Chi will open up their wallets finally for this kid and he wants to stay


So that leaves us with some top guys like Dragic, Rondo, and Deng. Some 2nd level guys like Monroe, Young and Ellis. And a lot of elevated role players who will want some serious cash like Danny Green, Jeff Green, Ed Davis, Lin, Koufos, etc.


If Im right what do you think we should do this summer?

Options include :

throw money at the problem and try to outspend for guys like Milsap, Butler or Monroe

sign a number of midlevel guys and reset the roster

use our cap for trades with guys who have worn out their welcome on their current teams

Am I the only one that wants tier 2 guys more than tier 1 guys?

[yb90]

problem with Harris is that he's a restricted free agent so Orl can match anything

if we offer a reasonable deal they will match
if we offer an excessive deal we will overpay potentially

That might be true but he would still be cheaper than Millsap. I just don't think it is smart to put all your chips on a 2 year window when you can get production in that 2 year window and also down the line.

so you think we could offer harris 7 mil a year over 4 years and scare away Orl?
Its possible
it'd be a lot of money for him but he might be worth it

I think its too much for a guy with his experience

No, He is going to get near Parsons money, somewhere near $13-15M. That's just the market especially when you are playing as well as he is at 22 years old. I imagine his 3pt shooting numbers will come down which will hurt his efficiency but he has been an borderline efficient guy without the 3pt shooting. The interesting thing is that he is showing signs of being a highly efficient player. He gets to the Ft line okay right now but that could even improve.

Orlando does hold all the cards because they have cap space and players at his position so the knicks would have to have some of the same language Dallas put into Parson's contract. It would be a risk but I think a smart one.

Draymond Green is the only other combo 3/4 that would be in that $7m range. I am not sold on his shooting because prior to this year it was horrible. He is growing on me because everything else he does is at a high level. He will be an unrestricted FA and GSW has his Bird Rights but that will really hurt their flexibility unless they make a trade or two.

[NoLayupRule]

That might be true but he would still be cheaper than Millsap. I just don't think it is smart to put all your chips on a 2 year window when you can get production in that 2 year window and also down the line.

so you think we could offer harris 7 mil a year over 4 years and scare away Orl?
Its possible
it'd be a lot of money for him but he might be worth it

I think its too much for a guy with his experience

No, He is going to get near Parsons money, somewhere near $13-15M. That's just the market especially when you are playing as well as he is at 22 years old. I imagine his 3pt shooting numbers will come down which will hurt his efficiency but he has been an borderline efficient guy without the 3pt shooting. The interesting thing is that he is showing signs of being a highly efficient player. He gets to the Ft line okay right now but that could even improve.

Orlando does hold all the cards because they have cap space and players at his position so the knicks would have to have some of the same language Dallas put into Parson's contract. It would be a risk but I think a smart one.

Draymond Green is the only other combo 3/4 that would be in that $7m range. I am not sold on his shooting because prior to this year it was horrible. He is growing on me because everything else he does is at a high level. He will be an unrestricted FA and GSW has his Bird Rights but that will really hurt their flexibility unless they make a trade or two.

Green is gonna get paid but he has a lot of warning signs on him

he's potentially a guy who plays really well for a season or a playoffs and gets his one big contract and then pull a Salmons or whatever and never lives up to that deal

that might not be fair but thats life

he is a solid defender, though undersized at the 4

I still like Milsap the best

he's been good a long time and is worth the $$

[NOOB77]

If we can get Millsap/Asik or Millsap/Hibbert I think that would be a great off-season.

[F N 11]

Rondo? another injury prone guy. Why not.

[ozwizard8]

if we could land Asik and Milsap both for 12-14 mil depending on cap then our front court would be very sexy indeed

I have to disagree with Millsap. I believe a Asik/Melo front court can get us to the eastern conference---but only if they're surrounded by athletes. Asik/Melo just like Hibbert/Melo would be great in the half court--but
I think a freakish athlete like Draymond or Thad is what's needed to balance that out.
Millsap is like a very poor man's Melo--who uses up the same space on the floor and who is also 29.

something like
Asik/Bynum
Melo
Thad
Shump
Calderone

would be much more balanced. Yes, I said Bynum damnit.


I even think an Asik/Melo/Shump front court is a better balance----saving the money for a #2 scorer instead of an aging role player like Milsap.

Id rather Jeff Green than Thad Young if we were going small and athletic

However I think Milsap can defend the 4 and spread the floor better and I am more in favor of developing a big front court than a small one

we can always go small if needed

asik is big enough to protect the rim and getting rebounds.
however he cant perform 48 minutes. i doubt he can play efficiently more than 32-33mpg. so we'll need backup c/pf.

millsap is solid but i would choose jeff green over him. j.green has the atleticism which melo lacks.
millsap/melo looks like same type players. i wouldnt want them both.
shump should considered as SG. if we need to go small he can play sf sometimes but he shouldnt seen as a SF.

asik-melo-j.green-shump-calderon
+mle big man(blatche/speights)+solid pg backup(2 years ago j.jack :S)

if we can trade away calderon+jr we may sign pg like r.jackson+green+asik maybe.
we must target defensive centers. gasol-d.jordan are also ok but they wouldnt come here.

[Bklyn&company]

I'm sticky awith this strategy. .. gut the roster...fire sale. You all don't seem to not understand.. If we don't gut the roster.. we can only sign one max cat...everything else will be mini's.

So we can only:
Sign One Max Cat
Draft our pick.

If we gut the roster we can sign two max (or very close to).. or the option to sign one and split the other.. Phil needs to send players west to Houston, OKC.. etc.. Playoff teams that want to win a championship and with needs...will be more willing to take on a little longer contract.. ex. Calderon, Stump, Dally and protected 1st. to OKC. Perkins and Reggie Jackson.... JR, Timmy and J.Smith to HOU. J.Terry, Kostas, rights to Marko Todorovic and two 2nd rounders.. With these trades we free up approx. $19 million in two trades! While have right to match on Jackson.. rights to a 19 year old 7' Foot Center, control a rookie and two 2nd round picks. If offered the Houston deal can get done easily. . The key is OKC. willing to trade R.Jackson.

Fire sales never work out for the seller

its a desperation move

perhaps you don't mean a fire sale though, perhaps you mean just move anyone with a contract if the option is there


Shump for an expiring and a late pick - perhaps SA or OKC or LA would want him
Smith for an expiring and a 2nd if possible - perhaps a team like Chi or Indy or Sac might want that extra scoring punch

I think Calderon should stay but Id be ok if we traded him for something that saved us money or provided us with a longer term solution


I think Dally's non-guarenteed contract and the expirings we have can be packaged with one of these guys we want to shed



And then there is always Phili who still need to get up to the minimum
A guy like Smith might be good for them since its unlikely he would re-up with them

Yea.. just dumping contracts... which will put us on a clean slate.. Once contracts are off the books and a good FA classes in the next two years with maybe a top 10 pick... we are good.

Our current bunch of players aren't working together... blow it up..

[GYK]

We're never getting no one ever.
Why would anyone ever come here?

[yb90]

so you think we could offer harris 7 mil a year over 4 years and scare away Orl?
Its possible
it'd be a lot of money for him but he might be worth it

I think its too much for a guy with his experience

No, He is going to get near Parsons money, somewhere near $13-15M. That's just the market especially when you are playing as well as he is at 22 years old. I imagine his 3pt shooting numbers will come down which will hurt his efficiency but he has been an borderline efficient guy without the 3pt shooting. The interesting thing is that he is showing signs of being a highly efficient player. He gets to the Ft line okay right now but that could even improve.

Orlando does hold all the cards because they have cap space and players at his position so the knicks would have to have some of the same language Dallas put into Parson's contract. It would be a risk but I think a smart one.

Draymond Green is the only other combo 3/4 that would be in that $7m range. I am not sold on his shooting because prior to this year it was horrible. He is growing on me because everything else he does is at a high level. He will be an unrestricted FA and GSW has his Bird Rights but that will really hurt their flexibility unless they make a trade or two.

Green is gonna get paid but he has a lot of warning signs on him

he's potentially a guy who plays really well for a season or a playoffs and gets his one big contract and then pull a Salmons or whatever and never lives up to that deal

that might not be fair but thats life

he is a solid defender, though undersized at the 4

I still like Milsap the best

he's been good a long time and is worth the $$

I agree with you on Green. He reminds me of a bigger Jared Dudley. That maybe unfair but I just look at his body type for his position and think he has a few good years then lets himself go. Hopefully that is not the case and he continues shooting well and ends up with a long prosperous career.

Millsap is the best player out of the 3 combos I mentioned but I am not sure he is the best for the knicks because they need so much help. Now if the knicks can get Wes Matthews and Asik to go along with Millsap then go for it. They would have to shed some salary and/or get a S&T for one of the 3 but that would be awesome. However, that would leave them capped out to round out their roster of 29-31 year olds.

I really do not see Millsap leaving Atl to go to a similar team unless the knicks get some other pieces before they sign him. I honestly think Millsap goes to Houston. They'll strengthen their starting unit and bench by moving Jones to the second unit.

[NoLayupRule]

I agree with you on Green. He reminds me of a bigger Jared Dudley. That maybe unfair but I just look at his body type for his position and think he has a few good years then lets himself go. Hopefully that is not the case and he continues shooting well and ends up with a long prosperous career.

Millsap is the best player out of the 3 combos I mentioned but I am not sure he is the best for the knicks because they need so much help. Now if the knicks can get Wes Matthews and Asik to go along with Millsap then go for it. They would have to shed some salary and/or get a S&T for one of the 3 but that would be awesome. However, that would leave them capped out to round out their roster of 29-31 year olds.

I really do not see Millsap leaving Atl to go to a similar team unless the knicks get some other pieces before they sign him. I honestly think Millsap goes to Houston. They'll strengthen their starting unit and bench by moving Jones to the second unit.

Im increasingly thinking that the whole crew in Port stays put. Lopez, Aldrige and Mathews

I think Milsap will play wherever he gets paid
If he gets the same offer in NY and LA and Houston, though they can't offer over the MML, I think he takes the Houston gig. Between NY and LA I think NY but Im biased.

I think Milsap and Asik are a nasty combo. Big and tough if not that quick

[NoLayupRule]

j.green has the atleticism which melo lacks.
millsap/melo looks like same type players. i wouldnt want them both..

I find those scouting reports dubious

Milap and Melo are the same player?
Melo isn't athletic?

ok

[Mecca]

A Dragic Monroe coup with a top 5 pick + Melo would be huge for this organization.