The use of our $2.8M Room Exception -- Rules

Johnny Hoops · Post #1 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:08 pm

So what are the rules in terms of when we can use this?

Can we just hold onto it into the season?

I assume it has no value or ability to be used in trades - is that accurate?

The fact we keep holding onto it makes me feel like we have something kicking around -- just not sure what the hell that is.

Post #2 » by **mpharris36** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:16 pm

the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

Post #3 » by **moocow007** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:42 pm

mpharris36 wrote:the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

Yep. This is the reason that I feel they should probably just hold onto the room. Unless someone they really like is out there (maybe a Euro player that we're not aware of...no...no loose labia), they can probably find close enough value using a vet minimum instead of using the room.

Johnny Hoops · Post #4 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:29 pm

moocow007 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

Yep. This is the reason that I feel they should probably just hold onto the room. Unless someone they really like is out there (maybe a Euro player that we're not aware of...no...no loose labia), they can probably find close enough value using a vet minimum instead of using the room.

thanks guys -

Yeah Moo -- I was thinking/hoping maybe we had secrets eyes set on some EURO big or a not too old Euro PG that could push the pace as Fisher noted the other day. Mozzy II would sure be a nice find --- no idea where that guy may or may not be.

Post #5 » by **mpharris36** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:45 pm

moocow007 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

Yep. This is the reason that I feel they should probably just hold onto the room. Unless someone they really like is out there (maybe a Euro player that we're not aware of...no...no loose labia), they can probably find close enough value using a vet minimum instead of using the room.

would you use it on Dellavadova? See if cleveland doesn't match (i believe he is restricted) not sure.

Post #6 » by **moocow007** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:54 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

Yep. This is the reason that I feel they should probably just hold onto the room. Unless someone they really like is out there (maybe a Euro player that we're not aware of...no...no loose labia), they can probably find close enough value using a vet minimum instead of using the room.

thanks guys -

Yeah Moo -- I was thinking/hoping maybe we had secrets eyes set on some EURO big or a not too old Euro PG that could push the pace as Fisher noted the other day. Mozzy II would sure be a nice find --- no idea where that guy may or may not be.

Yeah I think teams have been doing a lot more work trying to find that Euro big (either by locking their draft rights up early...like the Knicks did with Hernangomez, the Nuggets did with Joffrey Lauvergne a couple drafts back, the Sixers did with Arturas Gaulditis, etc....or throwing big money at them like the Wolves are doing with Nemaja Bjelica) that it'll be a bit harder to find another Mozgov in general (that has sneaked pass the draft or that can be signed easily).

Scalabrine · Post #7 » by **Scalabrine** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:09 pm

Can't be used in trades. Looking at what else is out there, I think our best bet is to just hold onto it for when someone gets released mid-season. An example of this leverage is when we signed JR Smith out of China a few years ago, and when the Rockets brought in Josh Smith last year.

Post #8 » by **Thorn** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:32 pm

Very informative thread, I wasn't sure how that worked and I like the idea of holding on to that flexibility for the inevitable cuts that will come.

stuporman · Post #9 » by **stuporman** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:51 pm

Yes, holding onto the exception is a great chip to outbid other teams for players that come available mid season.

Please don't waste it on someone like Boozer...

Zooropa · Post #10 » by **Zooropa** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:20 pm

I'd use it on Cope.

MeloTime · Post #11 » by **MeloTime** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:39 pm

we definitely need a guard off the bench who can score the ball

Post #12 » by **NoLayupRule** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:36 pm

there are players in China who may come to the US at the end of their season who could help us if we were in a playoff run

or, as has been suggested, players cut like Josh Smith was last year

or there are european players who might become available but who's buyouts would necessitate a significant enough salary to need the exception

but we also might not be spending it because Phil feels no one is worth it

kosmovitelli · Post #13 » by **kosmovitelli** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:09 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:So what are the rules in terms of when we can use this?

Can we just hold onto it into the season?

Yes. The room MLE is available until the last day of regular season but after january 10 (when all contracts becpome guaranteed for the remainder of the season), this exception is reduced daily throughout the end of regular season by the product of the amount of the unsued exception (as of january 10) multiplied by 1/n (n = number of days during regular season, last year the season started on october 28, 2014 and ended april 15). That number usually falls in the 165-170 range.

Johnny Hoops wrote:I assume it has no value or ability to be used in trades - is that accurate?

Correct. Same rules as the MLE. You can split the exception but you can only use it to sign free agents. You can't use it in trades and you can't use it to claim players off waivers.

Johnny Hoops wrote:The fact we keep holding onto it makes me feel like we have something kicking around -- just not sure what the hell that is.

I guess we didn't use it yet because management thought at this point no player on the market was worth it and there was no need to rush and waste that exception. They'll probably wait for training camp and may be pre-season when the coach and his staff will have a better evaluation of the roster and what they're lacking and what they need. There could be injuries too. They probably think it's better to keep the room MLE for now and they may think that players who are still available now will remain available in october? Every year, players are cut after training camp (when teams adjust their rosters) or just one month into the season. For example Jeremy Lin was cut in december by the Rockets and claimed by the Knicks. As previously said, Kicks can't claim a player but they can use it of the players clears the waivers and becomes a free agent.

For what it's worth, the Knicks were under the salary cap in 2011 (the year they signed Tyson Chandler) and they didn't use the room MLE during the off-season. They kept it and used it mid-season (in february 2012) to sign ... JR Smith !

spaceballer · Post #14 » by **spaceballer** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:27 pm

mpharris36 wrote:the biggest benefit of holding onto the 2.8 room exception is that during the year if a team cuts a players and he is put on waivers we can outbid any team that is over the cap by using more than the vets minimum. We wouldn't have to fight with other teams we could just claim him with the room exception at that point.

This is incorrect.

As Kosmos stated, you may not use the room exception or any MLE to make waiver claims.

There are two ways that a player can be put on the waiver wire. They can either be waived, or they can be amnestied.

If they are waived, then the claim priority is based on losing record. Whichever team has the worst record will win the waiver claim, not whichever team can pay the most. And you must assume the entirety of the contract, so you can't just bid for how much of it you want to pay, but must have the ability to take the entire contract. The Room MLE cannot be used in waiver bids.

NBA Salary Cap FAQ wrote: A team can claim a player on waivers only if one of the following is true:

The team is far enough under the salary cap to fit the player's entire salary.
The team has a Disabled Player exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 25), and the player is on the last season of his contract.
The team has a trade exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 85).
The player has a minimum salary contract.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65

If they are amnestied, then the claim priority is based on whoever bids the most, instead of whoever has the worst record. Again, the Room Exception cannot be used in bids.

Now if the player successfully passes waivers and then becomes a free agent, the Knicks may then approach and try to get him to sign for the Room Exception instead of Vet min. elsewhere. But that's not a waiver claim, it's just regular free agency. If the player is already being paid by the team that waived/amnestied him, he may choose to ring-chase for vet min or go to a better playing situation instead of coming for the Room MLE.

Having the Room exception available does give a slight advantage to signing free agents during mid-season (as was the case when JR Smith came back from China), but it is no guarantee that they won't go elsewhere for less money to ring chase or be a starter/more playing time or go home or whatever. It's inevitable that guys will get cut and become free agents if they successfully pass waivers with no team claiming them. That's when the Knicks can approach the newly minted free agent with the Room MLE, but the Knicks may not make any waiver claims using that Room Exception. So, yes, you will have to fight other teams for him. That's the nature of free agency.

Also, starting on January 10th, if the team still hasn't used the Room MLE, it begins to pro-rate and reduce in value. So anyone signing after Jan. 10th will not get the full $2.8M, but rather a pro-rated amount.