Phil Naessens: Rumor involving Trade of Melo for Millsap

[swisscheeseD]

I'd do the deal if we included Fisher for Coach Bud.

[omerome]

Here's the thing, most of us Hawks fans are not even sure we want Melo like that with his injuries and ball stopping skills. We like him and like his talent and would gladly admit he would be our most talented player but that doesn't make us want to trade a two time all star who is vital to our organization is a valued piece in the club house. Honestly, this is a non-factor until Jan 15th and who knows if Melo is even healthy but that point of the season. I wouldn't mind if he was a Hawk or not. I like the squad we got and I think we can really compete with Cleveland with the additions of Tiago, Edy and the growth of Dennis S.

I doubt that because if you couldn't beat Cleveland at their weak point last post season, it's highly unlikely you're beating them when they're getting Irving and Love back.

As for not wanting Melo, that's your feelings. However, unless you can conjure an elite defense similar to the Detroit Pistons back in the early '00s, you're not going to be taken very seriously with that roster.

[Trav_NYK]

Who ever thinks we should do this trade...... STFU & GTFO!

[siar617]

this thread is disturbing and should be locked

[Deeeez Knicks]

Phil Naessens for Frank Isola....Who says no?

[NoLayupRule]

Phil Naessens is very smart

things are slow and boring for us so why not post the most unreasonable and unrealistic rumor to piss people off and attract hits to his BS story?

[kej718]

Must be a slow news day. Melo has a no trade clause, and I don't think Millsap even wanted to come here in the first place.

[JXL]

Why is this thread still open?

[moocow007]

Here's the thing, most of us Hawks fans are not even sure we want Melo like that with his injuries and ball stopping skills. We like him and like his talent and would gladly admit he would be our most talented player but that doesn't make us want to trade a two time all star who is vital to our organization is a valued piece in the club house. Honestly, this is a non-factor until Jan 15th and who knows if Melo is even healthy but that point of the season. I wouldn't mind if he was a Hawk or not. I like the squad we got and I think we can really compete with Cleveland with the additions of Tiago, Edy and the growth of Dennis S.

I doubt that because if you couldn't beat Cleveland at their weak point last post season, it's highly unlikely you're beating them when they're getting Irving and Love back.

As for not wanting Melo, that's your feelings. However, unless you can conjure an elite defense similar to the Detroit Pistons back in the early '00s, you're not going to be taken very seriously with that roster.

And having lost Carroll.

[NYKAL]

There will always be those who call Melo a Top 10 player. I was thinking about what would be the simplest, most effective exercise to see where sentiment truly lies and I came up with this:

Pretend you're an expansion team and you get to pick a starting SF from any team in the league. Even if they would be a minority, there are still some on this board who would choose Melo over other players like Butler or Kahwi Leonard. The majority would select someone besides Melo, but there are die hard Melo fans who believe he is the best of the best.

Except that isn't an effective exercise -- it is biased to the younger players. Fact is, there isn't a single way non-biased way to determine how good Melo is. All stats can be misleading and need to be taken with a grain of salt and the eye-test is the same way. Circumstances, systems, roles players are asked to play are different from team to team. For example, Melo wouldn't be the same player he is in San Antonio and Leonard wouldn't be the same player in NY.

*Also -- the first three of your "four factors" are moot without the Melo's consent (which you had as the 4th one - it is by far the most important one of them all because we can get a trade we liked, but have it nipped in the bud because Melo rejects it).

People can love Melo or hate Melo, but he is a great player. He won't do everything LeBron or KD does, but he does stuff that Leonard, George, and others won't / can't. You take the good with the bad.

Also, not directed at you, but will the idea of Melo being a selfish player / isolation only guy ever die? It's the same **** every year and has been going back to Denver.

Agree with all of that. Hell, I would take 22 year old melo over 22 year old butler. Can't pass up that talent. Plus he's young enough to build around then.

I'd like it of phil could change him

Did we NOT see how bad Lebrons footwork is during the season and playoffs. Melo is a better shooter than Lebron and MUCH better in the post than both him and Durant. His footwork is better and he's deadly from pretty much anywhere on the floor. Melo has to be the most underrated star in the league.

His assists would be better if he'd been surrounded with better shooters or, if his usage rate wasn't so high which, was a necessity considering the team the Knicks have fielded.

[moocow007]

You are all over the place...

No offense but Millsap is probably a much better fit for the triangle. Hell, we run a hybrid motion/triangle offense where ball movement and not plays dictate the offense. I think the better question you might have is how can we win with a starting lineup of
Calderon
Afflalo
???
Millsap
Lopez

Honestly, you can't win that many games with or without that trade. You might be a better team with better moral but talent is still lacking severely in NY, with or without Melo or Sap.

What makes him a better fit? His inferior ability to create his own offense when the sets break down?

Defensive impact on steals, the ability to spread the court, let's Lopez just do the dirty work while he can score in the paint, outside of it which would help Lopez impact. He has the ability to pass extremely well. He's a smart player. I can easily see how he's a better. Look at the personnel. Lopez for example needs to play around a verstaile PF like he did in Portland.

Anthony is a better court spreader and draws more defensive attention than Millsap does. For a supposed "ball stopper" Carmelo Anthony averages more assists per game for his career than Millsap does. Anthony can score in the paint and outside BETTER than Millsap so not sure how Anthony would "help" Lopez and his "impact" less. As far as Lopez needing a versatile PF like he did in Portland? When did Lamarcus Aldridge become this great defensive player or passer (i.e. none ball stopper) compared to Anthony? So what "versatility" are you talking about that Aldridge has that Anthony doesn't have? Defensively Anthony has the better defensive rating. Offensively Aldridge and Anthony's sweet spots on the court are very similar. Anthony can (and has) played PF. In fact for the past several seasons already Anthony has done better at PF than SF.

While I don't think the Knicks are good regardless mainly because I think Calderon is ass and the bench is weak, I mean, with Millsap, your defense could be as good as Milwaukee was last year.

Based on what? Wild guesses? And what does the Bucks have to do with the Knicks?

My biggest worry about Lopez right now is he will be exposed again like he was before he went to Portland. He plays best when he can just play his role. It's easiler to play your role next to Sap instead of Derrick Williams.

How was Lopez exposed before Portland? He had Shaquile Oneal ahead of him in his rookie season and Marcin Gortat the last 2 seasons in Phoenix. The one other season (his sophomore season in the NBA) the he was battling an injury while playing in SSOL with D'Antoni who liked to use Frye at C for his ability to shoot from outside (PS: the Triangle is not anything like SSOL). His one year in NO is what got him the contract with the Blazers and he looked terrific there doing what he did in Portland (hustle, defend, etc.). And he was playing with the defensively handicapped Ryan Anderson next to him at PF in NO.

You are reaching for arguments.

[moocow007]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhwqkxzX5hI[/youtube]

This is the guy their talking about trading melo for?? LET US ALL NOT FORGET WHAT MELO DID TO THIS GUY!! PARTY TIMEEEEEE

That was before Millsap became an "up-and-coming possible superstar".

He better hurry up with is "ups" and "comings" cause he's on the wrong side of 30 already.

[moocow007]

Trading Anthony for Millsap straight up would be like drafting Winslow instead of Porzingis (or any of the other guys picked ahead of Porzingis).

[moocow007]

But yes, at the end of the day, if you only pick on the good things about Millsap and the bad things about Antony, definitely, definitely, the trade makes sense.

[Pjax4Prez]

Don't think there is any truth to this podcast but I think it would be safe to assume that if P-jax does trade Melo, it won't be for another front court player. We are obviously committed to Robin Lopez (unless a better C option becomes available) and KP is obviously our PF of the future (told LMA he would have to play C if he was considering the Knicks).

If we trade Melo (hope we don't) it will most likely be for a wing/perimeter players and picks. Most likely a package of unproven young guys.

[Thorn]

This trade will never, and should never happen. You can parade 3 dozen Hawks fans in here along with Millsap's family and friends to talk up his virtues while trying to downplay (laughably so I might add) Carmelo's virtues and I will STILL be 100% certain that trade would be unfair for the Knicks and it would certainly make us worse not better.

IMO Melo is a top 3-7 scorer in this league, and until he shows otherwise he is 1000x the player Millsap is, Millsap can not carry a franchise to greatness. Who was the best player on the Hawks last year? I mean Paul's per was impressive but his scoring is nowhere near Melo's league.

Millsap is what the 7th best power forward in the league? Melo is solid 3rd SF in terms of production/ranking... which brings me to the next point. We have PLENTY of power forwards on the team, not only is this a bad deal for the Knicks it makes no sense given our draft, and off-season acquisitions.

This article is click bait, avoid at all cost.

[JXL]

This trade will never, and should never happen. You can parade 3 dozen Hawks fans in here along with Millsap's family and friends to talk up his virtues while trying to downplay (laughably so I might add) Carmelo's virtues and I will STILL be 100% certain that trade would be unfair for the Knicks and it would certainly make us worse not better.

IMO Melo is a top 3-7 scorer in this league, and until he shows otherwise he is 1000x the player Millsap is, Millsap can not carry a franchise to greatness. Who was the best player on the Hawks last year? I mean Paul's per was impressive but his scoring is nowhere near Melo's league.

Millsap is what the 7th best power forward in the league? Melo is solid 3rd SF in terms of production/ranking... which brings me to the next point. We have PLENTY of power forwards on the team, not only is this a bad deal for the Knicks it makes no sense given our draft, and off-season acquisitions.

This article is click bait, avoid at all cost.

NBA 2K16 has Melo as an 88, Millsap an 83. IMO, Melo should be a 90.

[Johnny Hoops]

I do understand the Melo love on this board to a degree but if we could swing Melo for say Milsap & Shroeder I'm down with that.

I take.....

- Milsap is approximately 1-year younger than Melo and has had no significant knee surgery that I'm aware of (could be wrong)
- Milsap deal is 1 year less than Melo
- over the last 9 years (06-14) Milsap has avg. 76 games per year - missing 51 games in 9 seasons or 5.5 per year
- over the last 9 years (06-14) Melo has avg. 66 games per year - missing 145 games in 9 seasons or 16 per year.
- Shroeder is a young/quick pg that can get into the paint
- Melo is a better scorer but Milsap is superior in every other aspect of the game
- Milsap brings his lunch-pail to work and Melo brings his twitter account (It's me Me7o!)

I could see how trading Dennis or Teague as the main pieces for Melo but no f**** way we trade one of them with Sap. You Knicks fan are out of your Knickerbocking mind. If we trade Sap and that's a MAJOR IF, it will be straight up. No extra players, no draft picks, etc. Otherwise, trade Melo to Houston for Dontany M and Terrence Jones or something.

Yeah - well I didn't put the deal together to favor the Hawks because I'm a Knicks fan but as you can see the rest of this board would want Milsap, Teague, Schroder, Horford and Kover for Melo so we can be an unrealistic bunch when it comes to our Knicks and Melo.

Leaving Melo's no-trade clause out of the equation for a minute -- it really comes down to whether or not Hawks management thinks their team can truly compete as is. If you look at their performance in the playoffs last year -- there is probably serious doubt internally that they have what they'll need to get by a team like the Cavs. They are in fact missing a dominant offensive player and they could entertain the dangerous notion of breaking up a very solid team to target a stud offensive player like Melo.

If the Hawks were entertaining this idea - they would be the more desperate team and would likely have to kick in some additional assets to get the end of game scorer they need.

Again - I'm a big Paul Milsap guy but straight up for Melo he isn't enough --- that is why I threw in a name like Schroder.

I wouldn't do it if I was Atlanta but I might if I was NY because I think Milsap fits our system, our style of play and he would be able to play SF next to KP6 for the next 3 years and I like Schroder. Plus Milsap has 1 year less on his deal than Melo.

[Johnny Hoops]

Millsap is nearly as old, costs nearly as much.

How is he a better fit? The Triangle has always thrived at the NBA level with an elite ISO scorer.

No offense but Millsap is probably a much better fit for the triangle. Hell, we run a hybrid motion/triangle offense where ball movement and not plays dictate the offense. I think the better question you might have is how can we win with a starting lineup of
Calderon
Afflalo
???
Millsap
Lopez

Honestly, you can't win that many games with or without that trade. You might be a better team with better moral but talent is still lacking severely in NY, with or without Melo or Sap.

What makes him a better fit? His inferior ability to create his own offense when the sets break down?

Milsap takes many of the same bad shots as Melo as the shot clock winds down -- he's actually very good at getting shots up / making buckets.

He's a 50% career FG shooter -- which is higher than Melo but he just takes 1/2 the shots (10) than Melo does (20) over his career.

[GONYK]

Just going to leave this here in response to those saying Melo doesn't pass...