PG: They put it on us again: Heat 97 Knicks 78

[Johnny Hoops]

This trade works....

Melo for Winslow, Deng (expires), Birdman (expires), T- Johnson. Maybe we get a first, 2 seconds and use CAP space for younger players to compliment KP, Winslow,Grant, Galloway.

I think Miami is probably only shot where Melo agrees to go.

If we did that then we can kill any FA plans. We'd officially be going all in on a rebuild with a main core of KP and Winslow. I can see Miami doing this, but would Phil? Miami would have a great chance to make it to the finals if that trade occurred

Dragic
Wade
Melo
Bosh
Whiteside

damn...

Why would we be killing FA plans - guys are far more apt to join the likes of KP/ Winslow than join a declining Melo. Are people blind to what Melo is today? He is a one-trick low efficiency pony that appears to have lost at least one large step and about 6" off his vertical.

[Rasho Brezec]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them. kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

Good thing he spent last season doing nothing but waiting which draft pick is going to fall into his hands.

Actually, I'm being mean, he also allowed the development of Galloway, Thomas and Amundson. All is forgiven.

[JBreezeNY]

sure we'd probably still lose a number of the games we did if fisher stuck to a reasonable rotation. that doesn't mean he's still not f*cking things up.

There is some truth to this.

As I said some games ago Fisher is sacrificing wins for building chemistry. Lance Thomas' confidence gotta be on some NBA All Star sh*t

[Johnny Hoops]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I agree with this - Phil drafted KP he deserves that credit but if Gaines said Mudiay or Winslow are the pick Phil takes one of those guys. He just doesn't spend enough time scouting to make that call on his own.

His biggest issues are Melo deal rather than finding a S&T and the Chandler deal. Not ready to kill him on this seasons FA pick ups because I don't see any outrageous #s in those deals.

[Rasho Brezec]

sure we'd probably still lose a number of the games we did if fisher stuck to a reasonable rotation. that doesn't mean he's still not f*cking things up.

There is some truth to this.

As I said some games ago Fisher is sacrificing wins for building chemistry. Lance Thomas' confidence gotta be on some NBA All Star sh*t

How the **** do you build chemistry by changing the lineups all the time? If you stir a plate of hot soup, it doesn't get hotter, it gets colder.

[NoLayupRule]

Fishers rotations and sets are an issue for sure

So is the schedule. Lots of games, good opponents, etc

But anyone who thought this team had a lot of offensive punch was always kidding themselves.

We're getting near the top of the league in defense. This is fantastic.
But we are in major need of scoring help as we have been since the summer

Melo is a super star scorer but can't and shouldn't have to do it all

Our best games are when he's just part of the offense not the whole thing
That's not his fault

We need 2 more legit scorers on this team
Not spot up shooters like Jose or AA

We need 2 more guys who can create their own baskets in bunches

KP is coming along but that's not fair pressure for him

We need a guard who can light it up and we need a backup any whatever position who's a reliable scorer night in and night out

[NoLayupRule]

sure we'd probably still lose a number of the games we did if fisher stuck to a reasonable rotation. that doesn't mean he's still not f*cking things up.

There is some truth to this.

As I said some games ago Fisher is sacrificing wins for building chemistry. Lance Thomas' confidence gotta be on some NBA All Star sh*t

How the **** do you build chemistry by changing the lineups all the time? If you stir a plate of hot soup, it doesn't get hotter, it gets colder.

Team chemistry is very very good right now

Individual confidence is not

[NYKnicksTAPE]

This trade works....

Melo for Winslow, Deng (expires), Birdman (expires), T- Johnson. Maybe we get a first, 2 seconds and use CAP space for younger players to compliment KP, Winslow,Grant, Galloway.

I think Miami is probably only shot where Melo agrees to go.

If we did that then we can kill any FA plans. We'd officially be going all in on a rebuild with a main core of KP and Winslow. I can see Miami doing this, but would Phil? Miami would have a great chance to make it to the finals if that trade occurred

Dragic
Wade
Melo
Bosh
Whiteside

damn...

Why would we be killing FA plans - guys are far more apt to join the likes of KP/ Winslow than join a declining Melo. Are people blind to what Melo is today? He is a one-trick low efficiency pony that appears to have lost at least one large step and about 6" off his vertical.

They might be more willing to join that core 3 or 4 years from now, but I doubt it has any hope of attracting any significant player right now. I think we'd win 25 games if that trade went down. The offense is bad now, but it would be even more of a struggle without Melo. Also, Melo isn't typically inefficient...he's usually gives you above average efficiency on league high usage which is why he's so valuable on offense. He'll eventually get his legs back under him. All I saw were dudes screaming "He's back!! Bully ball season!" when he couldn't miss in preseason, but now he's done after a few bad games

[JBreezeNY]

sure we'd probably still lose a number of the games we did if fisher stuck to a reasonable rotation. that doesn't mean he's still not f*cking things up.

There is some truth to this.

As I said some games ago Fisher is sacrificing wins for building chemistry. Lance Thomas' confidence gotta be on some NBA All Star sh*t

How the **** do you build chemistry by changing the lineups all the time? If you stir a plate of hot soup, it doesn't get hotter, it gets colder.

Well from what I've seen so far when the players get their numbers called they usually play with effort instead of half-assing it. As a whole the team looks good.

It's hard to say if them playing poorly is due to lack of consistent minutes, them just not playing well or both. KP & Melo have been meh recently but both are starting.

Fish is a product of Phil & Phil's crazy rotations so I'm not surprised.

[IAmTheBest]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I agree with this - Phil drafted KP he deserves that credit but if Gaines said Mudiay or Winslow are the pick Phil takes one of those guys. He just doesn't spend enough time scouting to make that call on his own.

His biggest issues are Melo deal rather than finding a S&T and the Chandler deal. Not ready to kill him on this seasons FA pick ups because I don't see any outrageous #s in those deals.

The chandler deal was good in my opinion. It netted us Early (I still think he'll turn out into a good piece if given the chance) and ultimately Porzingis (we might not have tanked/gotten few enough wins with Chandler and Felton playing)

I was a fan of signing and trading Melo to the bulls for Mirotic, their 2014 picks (turned into jusuf nurkic)

we wouldve been a true rebuilding team with

Grant
Galloway
Early/Mirotic
Porzingis
Nurkic

Mirotic/Early off the bench

that is a damn good core going into the future

Ultimately, I can't be too upset with Phil since he landed us Porzingis, who looks like a future big t ime player, despite all of his other mediocre decisions. Doesnt matter who scouted him, Porzingis is a Knick rookie with huge upside and loves to be here under the tutelage of Phil. Ultimately Phil made it happen.

[blueNorange]

melo is most likely going to be that guy that will never accept a diminished role.

[blueNorange]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I agree with this - Phil drafted KP he deserves that credit but if Gaines said Mudiay or Winslow are the pick Phil takes one of those guys. He just doesn't spend enough time scouting to make that call on his own.

His biggest issues are Melo deal rather than finding a S&T and the Chandler deal. Not ready to kill him on this seasons FA pick ups because I don't see any outrageous #s in those deals.

The chandler deal was good in my opinion. It netted us Early (I still think he'll turn out into a good piece if given the chance) and ultimately Porzingis (we might not have tanked/gotten few enough wins with Chandler and Felton playing)

I was a fan of signing and trading Melo to the bulls for Mirotic, their 2014 picks (turned into jusuf nurkic)

we wouldve been a true rebuilding team with

Grant
Galloway
Early/Mirotic
Porzingis
Nurkic

Mirotic/Early off the bench

that is a damn good core going into the future

Ultimately, I can't be too upset with Phil since he landed us Porzingis, who looks like a future big t ime player, despite all of his other mediocre decisions. Doesnt matter who scouted him, Porzingis is a Knick rookie with huge upside and loves to be here under the tutelage of Phil. Ultimately Phil made it happen.

yeah, early most likely will be out of the league.

[BBallFreak]

Wade and Bosh are not young. Riley would at least do Deng and Winslow.

I just don't agree at this point. Riley is going after Durant IMO. He also wants to keep Whiteside. Acquiring Anthony makes that all but impossible. I don't think you drop that chance for a Big 3 that isn't as good as Cleveland's and is significantly older. I also don't believe it's prudent to move a lottery pick for aa 31 year old who doesn't make Miami a clear favorite. We're already challenging for second in the conference. No need to push ourselves a bit closer to clear cut second...

[IAmTheBest]

melo is most likely going to be that guy that will never accept a diminished role.

Says who?

He's accepted diminished roles before on the national teams. He accepted a dminished role when he first came to the Knicks and played with a healthy Amare.

If front offices would actually find someone equal to or better than he is, there is absolutely no reason to believe he wouldnt take a diminished role accordingly

[KnicksScholar24]

My thoughts on the game:

When Porzingis and Lopez got in foul trouble, it was over for the Knicks. The ONLY advantage the Knicks have over teams are Lopez/Porzingis duo. Without them, there is no rim protection, no offensive boards, and pretty much no defensive boards (w/o Porzingis).

Overall this is a awful defensive rounding team. Only Porzingis, and some times Carmelo, rebounds on the defensive glass. Lopez is a horrible defensive rebounder, so if Williams, and pretty much every big not named Porzingis is below average. Without Lopez/Porzingis/Anthony on the court this team is a bad offensive rebounding team too.

The irony is that Carmelo was hot last game and everybody else SUCKED, and this game everybody else started contributing (when not in foul trouble) but Carmelo SUCKED. The Knicks could have won one of the two if Carmelo was hot and everyone else contributed in the same game.

Plus this game had a RIDICULOUS amount of point blank missed layups. Mainly Lopez.

KP needs to be more consistent with staying out of foul trouble and also shooting the ball (he's a 42%, or less, FG shooter) since NY has to rely on him so much. Without that happening, this team is, AT BEST, a .500 team. Sub .400 if Carmelo can't be more consistent and if both units don't get better at running the triangle.

Team fixes: They need more consistent scorers, more play-makers (people who can create when triangle is not working), and better defensive rebounders. Only real trade assets they have are their two rookies, and they can't afford to trade them (maybe Grant), but that would hurt NY's rebuilding process, if they decide to trade Anthony and build around Porzingis, which I definitely think should happen if they miss the playoffs this season, or lose in the first round.

Positives from last game: Calderon and Grant, and Williams showed that he still has a pulse.

[KnicksGod]

Wade and Bosh are not young. Riley would at least do Deng and Winslow.

I just don't agree at this point. Riley is going after Durant IMO. He also wants to keep Whiteside. Acquiring Anthony makes that all but impossible. I don't think you drop that chance for a Big 3 that isn't as good as Cleveland's and is significantly older. I also don't believe it's prudent to move a lottery pick for aa 31 year old who doesn't make Miami a clear favorite. We're already challenging for second in the conference. No need to push ourselves a bit closer to clear cut second...

I think your reasoning applies to why Durant is not realistic -- doesn't give KD a clear situation where he's over the top. Also Riley is a dealer. He'll feel he can dump Melo if he has to for KD. And Wade is a free agent this summer isn't he?

It'd seemingly be underestimating Riley/Miami again, some would say foolishly, but I give Miami no real shot at KD.

Riley would bite on a Melo - Winslow deal imo. I just don't think he'd turn down that chance to avenge Bron.

[Knicks_Fan2]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I'm sorry but are you really going to give a scout the credit for the decisions made by the ultimate decision maker? If you're going to parse that much, then you can take the credit away from most GMs for many decisions. Putting the right people in place and making the ultimate decisions to select/sign guys IS part of the job and Phil does deserve credit for that.

[god shammgod]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I'm sorry but are you really going to give a scout the credit for the decisions made by the ultimate decision maker? If you're going to parse that much, then you can take the credit away from most GMs for many decisions. Putting the right people in place and making the ultimate decisions to select/sign guys IS part of the job and Phil does deserve credit for that.

phil gets credit for hiring clarence. you're right. but you're ignoring the point of the statement which is that outside of clarence's suggestions, nothing else he's done has really worked out.

p.s. i'm 99 percent sure that phil would have taken okafor if he was there, the same way i'm 99 percent sure he would have signed monroe if he could have. because the triangle needs a scoring/passing big which is why we force robin lopez to be one game after game.

[Clyde_Style]

also, you're mostly all giving phil a pass. who is currently out performing or performing up to what we paid for them ? kp & gallo are the only real bright spots and clarence gaines is responsible for them. might as well let him run things.

I'm sorry but are you really going to give a scout the credit for the decisions made by the ultimate decision maker? If you're going to parse that much, then you can take the credit away from most GMs for many decisions. Putting the right people in place and making the ultimate decisions to select/sign guys IS part of the job and Phil does deserve credit for that.

phil gets credit for hiring clarence. you're right. but you're ignoring the point of the statement which is that outside of clarence's suggestions, nothing else he's done has really worked out.

p.s. i'm 99 percent sure that phil would have taken okafor if he was there, the same way i'm 99 percent sure he would have signed monroe if he could have. because the triangle needs a scoring/passing big which is why we force robin lopez to be one game after game.

At this point I have to agree. We stuffing the ball into Lopez a hell of a lot.

It really is hard not to conclude KP was probably at best his 4-5th option after Monroe, Aldridge, Okafor, Towns.

Yes, I give Phil credit for picking KP, but now we're in situation where the system still may be organized around PHILosophy.

The question of whether KP is going to be utilized properly looms.

[dakomish23]

Jesus, we need a legit 2nd scoring option.

I'll confess.

Porzingis may have been the best option at 4, he's the rarest type of prospect we will see in a while and I'm 100% comfortable with our future in his hands but

to those who said Winslow would be a bust, man they look bad right now. Miami may have the best perimeter defender in the NBA, along with one of the best shot blockers. I understand if Winslow wasn't your first option at 4, but the way some people here treated him was disgusting and ignorant. There were folks who didn't even have Winslow in their top 5 at 4.

guys like Leonard, Butler and Winslow will always be picked late and underappreciated at the beginning of their young NBA careers.

The Winslow hate was always unjustified and over the top. Never understood it

That's because trying to "understand" something that never happened will always be impossible to do.

False