Rumor: Phil wants out of NY "badly" to return to Lakers

[Thugger HBC]

This is what it comes down to? Y'all rather have Mark Jackson (good motivator but terrible X and O's coach) and Masai Ujiri (Fleecing the Knicks whenever Dolan picks up the phone to get our picks) running this franchise? Seriously, y'all need Jesus...

I don't see why that is a disqualifier

Because there is no Dolan on the other side of the phone call. Is he going to prank call his boss for first rounders?

Masai is not a messiah, remember this is the guy who wanted to let Lowry go for a first round pick. Where would Toronto be if Lowry was traded?

Unless you believe they wouldn't have found a suitable replacement, probably the same place. Masai is a good exec, he's proven that. Might would have jumped on acquiring IT before Boston did for example.

[spree8]

Well I don't actually have a problem with Melos contact but it's been a topic of much ire and hate so I brought it up. My gripe isnt with individual moves so much as none of them correlate with each other as part of one big plan. To me to sign Melo must mean you want to win now (ie. Go after marquee talent either around him or even better than him) To rebuild is to do what you described, but not three seasons into the contract, he really should've long convinced Melo by now to waive his ntc or not have given it to him in the first place. If Melo was supposed to be a tradeable asset then why give him a ntc? Why go out and sign Melo friendly players

See? It doesn't add up. I think you gotta admit that your plan was drawn up (if that's even the plan at all) on the fly, only after its obvious his previous plans haven't worked. Nobody at Phil's level ever admits fault, you just spin it like that was the plan all along. We didn't have a failed season last year, we failed on purpose and look it got us KP. We never failed this year to attract free agents, it was always about landing Rolo and Afflalo cause they wanted to be here. We didn't fail this year, it was always about development. This summer, we won't fail to land a top tier free agent, whichever 30 yrs old left over we get it'll be because of his veteran leadership for KP. And on and on.

And I don't mind rebuilding. Id love to contend but if we're gonna rebuild that's ok too. But let's stop with making moves that don't reinforce either. Philly gets bashed but at least everything they do reinforces the plan that they stated was gonna happen. The Grizzlies get bashed but at least every move reinforces that they're trying to contend. We'll talk about rebuilding and then sign Afflalo, trade for Calderon and Sasha. That's my gripe. Go all in on something, make a choice.

I get your point but signing RoLo and Afflalo were hardly to have us compete bro. You really think Phil thought that those two would bring us to the next level? No. They were last resort, and they were cheap and solid. The Jose deal was mainly to get Tyson out.

The thing you aren't connecting here is that with Philly, Hinkie didn't know how to build an actual team. Even while rebuilding you still need to bring in vets to help teach the young guys.

With Melo, Phil didn't wanna lose him for nothing in FA or in a s&t. The no trade clause was likely a demand from Melo because he prob didn't trust Phil. I know some reports say it was Phil's idea, but I doubt it. Even still, I'm sure Phil knew that in a short amount of time Melo would want out...it's obvious. Then we'd be able to get something valuable.

This team never had a chance at contending man. With Tyson quitting, Amare broken, and Melo disgruntled, we had nothing going for us. So making the playoffs from the get go was an impossible task with no real assets to use.

Free agency last year didn't show me that he was really interested in guys like Monroe or Aldridge either. There was really no effort made on his part. That also kinda hints at a true rebuild plan.

So if you really believe that RoLo, Afflalo, Jose and Sasha were brought here to bring us to contention instead of just being spokes on the wheel, then you're mistaken.

Look at all the young rebuilding-type pieces he brought in: Galloway, JGrant, Kris, Early, Thanasis, O'Quinn, DWill, Ledo, Willy, Jimmer, etc..

Let's also not forget that hiring a rookie coach is hardly the way to truly compete. Whether it was Kerr or Fisher, neither one was expected to bring us to the playoffs immediately. Despite Kerr's monumental success in GS.

If tanking or rebuilding was the plan then why didn't Phill just do a sing and trade because with that NTC and now older with knee problems we are going to get the same or less in return for Melo, to me Phil never planned on any rebuild.....he just sucks at this!

Really? Who were we going to get in a s&t scenario from the tiny group of teams interested in him at the time? Chicago, and Houston had nothing to give us. What, do you think we'd get someone like JButler? No way in hell that would've happened...we would've ended up with Gibson at best.

A s&t scenario is worse when it comes to getting the players real value in return. We'd get much more even now than we would've back then.

Another point is that Melo needed that surgery. He ended up taking practically the whole year off which I think was part of the plan. Melo signed thinking he'd take the year off and Phil would add a major piece in FA that next summer and maybe even trade the lotto pick.

Melo prob thought DeAndre or Aldridge were going to come and either a known American/win now player (Winslow) was gunna be drafted or another star was gunna get acquired through trading it. When neither happened, we started hearing how Melo wasn't happy.

I think Phil is doing what he wants to do (rebuild) no matter what, and maybe told Melo what he wanted to hear or whatever it took to get him to stay in order to keep him as an asset.

[xNewYorkMadex]

I dont totally buy this rumor, but who knows. Maybe Phil did have a change of heart and wants to be close with Jeanie full-time. Probably will mean much more to him to turn that franchise with her by his side.

If they clean house and Jeanie fires her brother and Mitch K, Phil would feel much more comfortable and at ease to do what he wants.

I'd be surprised if Phil sticks around after next season. I do believe he wishes he had the option to opt out during this off-season instead.

Its hard to judge what Phil has done for us after only 2 seasons, but I will say this, I will lose alot of respect for him if he doesnt even interview Thibs. A man with his title shouldnt dictate what type of offense a team should run. Hes not a head coach anymore, hes the President. Find a way to acquire the best talent and hire the best candidates. This franchise would actually be a heck of a lot better if Phil hires Thibs and Phil actually stays and works alongside with him.

[miamiKnick305]

I get your point but signing RoLo and Afflalo were hardly to have us compete bro. You really think Phil thought that those two would bring us to the next level? No. They were last resort, and they were cheap and solid. The Jose deal was mainly to get Tyson out.

The thing you aren't connecting here is that with Philly, Hinkie didn't know how to build an actual team. Even while rebuilding you still need to bring in vets to help teach the young guys.

With Melo, Phil didn't wanna lose him for nothing in FA or in a s&t. The no trade clause was likely a demand from Melo because he prob didn't trust Phil. I know some reports say it was Phil's idea, but I doubt it. Even still, I'm sure Phil knew that in a short amount of time Melo would want out...it's obvious. Then we'd be able to get something valuable.

This team never had a chance at contending man. With Tyson quitting, Amare broken, and Melo disgruntled, we had nothing going for us. So making the playoffs from the get go was an impossible task with no real assets to use.

Free agency last year didn't show me that he was really interested in guys like Monroe or Aldridge either. There was really no effort made on his part. That also kinda hints at a true rebuild plan.

So if you really believe that RoLo, Afflalo, Jose and Sasha were brought here to bring us to contention instead of just being spokes on the wheel, then you're mistaken.

Look at all the young rebuilding-type pieces he brought in: Galloway, JGrant, Kris, Early, Thanasis, O'Quinn, DWill, Ledo, Willy, Jimmer, etc..

Let's also not forget that hiring a rookie coach is hardly the way to truly compete. Whether it was Kerr or Fisher, neither one was expected to bring us to the playoffs immediately. Despite Kerr's monumental success in GS.

If tanking or rebuilding was the plan then why didn't Phill just do a sing and trade because with that NTC and now older with knee problems we are going to get the same or less in return for Melo, to me Phil never planned on any rebuild.....he just sucks at this!

Really? Who were we going to get in a s&t scenario from the tiny group of teams interested in him at the time? Chicago, and Houston had nothing to give us. What, do you think we'd get someone like JButler? No way in hell that would've happened...we would've ended up with Gibson at best.

A s&t scenario is worse when it comes to getting the players real value in return. We'd get much more even now than we would've back then.

Another point is that Melo needed that surgery. He ended up taking practically the whole year off which I think was part of the plan. Melo signed thinking he'd take the year off and Phil would add a major piece in FA that next summer and maybe even trade the lotto pick.

Melo prob thought DeAndre or Aldridge were going to come and either a known American/win now player (Winslow) was gunna be drafted or another star was gunna get acquired through trading it. When neither happened, we started hearing how Melo wasn't happy.

I think Phil is doing what he wants to do (rebuild) no matter what, and maybe told Melo what he wanted to hear or whatever it took to get him to stay in order to keep him as an asset.

Where do you get that tanking/rebuild is or has always been Phils plan because we have stunk it up so bad for two year's? Because he wants to keep Rambis? It just seems all who still believe in Phil like to believe that is and always has been his master plan so they have an excuse to still believe in him and not accept that he has no clue and is to stubborn to even hire best coach available. This guy has never planned on tanking, his coaching hires just like many other moves just haven't worked and the result are what they are....

[spree8]

If tanking or rebuilding was the plan then why didn't Phill just do a sing and trade because with that NTC and now older with knee problems we are going to get the same or less in return for Melo, to me Phil never planned on any rebuild.....he just sucks at this!

Really? Who were we going to get in a s&t scenario from the tiny group of teams interested in him at the time? Chicago, and Houston had nothing to give us. What, do you think we'd get someone like JButler? No way in hell that would've happened...we would've ended up with Gibson at best.

A s&t scenario is worse when it comes to getting the players real value in return. We'd get much more even now than we would've back then.

Another point is that Melo needed that surgery. He ended up taking practically the whole year off which I think was part of the plan. Melo signed thinking he'd take the year off and Phil would add a major piece in FA that next summer and maybe even trade the lotto pick.

Melo prob thought DeAndre or Aldridge were going to come and either a known American/win now player (Winslow) was gunna be drafted or another star was gunna get acquired through trading it. When neither happened, we started hearing how Melo wasn't happy.

I think Phil is doing what he wants to do (rebuild) no matter what, and maybe told Melo what he wanted to hear or whatever it took to get him to stay in order to keep him as an asset.

Where do you get that tanking/rebuild is or has always been Phils plan because we have stunk it up so bad for two year's? Because he wants to keep Rambis? It just seems all who still believe in Phil like to believe that is and always has been his master plan so they have an excuse to still believe in him and not accept that he has no clue and is to stubborn to even hire best coach available. This guy has never planned on tanking, his coaching hires just like many other moves just haven't worked and the result are what they are....

I thought I made it pretty clear. I'm not going to repeat my last 5 posts in this thread for you. Go back and re-read them. But the only argument you raised against believing he has was that he didn't s&t Melo (which I explained) and that he hired/tried hiring two rookie coaches (Kerr and Fisher) which I also explained is not a win now move already.

What moves has he made to make us a win now team or at least tried and failed at? Doesn't look like he's tried to make one to put us into contention. You must be confusing him with Isiah.

[prolific96]

If tanking or rebuilding was the plan then why didn't Phill just do a sing and trade because with that NTC and now older with knee problems we are going to get the same or less in return for Melo, to me Phil never planned on any rebuild.....he just sucks at this!

Really? Who were we going to get in a s&t scenario from the tiny group of teams interested in him at the time? Chicago, and Houston had nothing to give us. What, do you think we'd get someone like JButler? No way in hell that would've happened...we would've ended up with Gibson at best.

A s&t scenario is worse when it comes to getting the players real value in return. We'd get much more even now than we would've back then.

Another point is that Melo needed that surgery. He ended up taking practically the whole year off which I think was part of the plan. Melo signed thinking he'd take the year off and Phil would add a major piece in FA that next summer and maybe even trade the lotto pick.

Melo prob thought DeAndre or Aldridge were going to come and either a known American/win now player (Winslow) was gunna be drafted or another star was gunna get acquired through trading it. When neither happened, we started hearing how Melo wasn't happy.

I think Phil is doing what he wants to do (rebuild) no matter what, and maybe told Melo what he wanted to hear or whatever it took to get him to stay in order to keep him as an asset.

Where do you get that tanking/rebuild is or has always been Phils plan because we have stunk it up so bad for two year's? Because he wants to keep Rambis? It just seems all who still believe in Phil like to believe that is and always has been his master plan so they have an excuse to still believe in him and not accept that he has no clue and is to stubborn to even hire best coach available. This guy has never planned on tanking, his coaching hires just like many other moves just haven't worked and the result are what they are....

I'm not sure tanking or rebuilding was Phils mater plan from the start but I bet it was one of his options. The team Phil inherited was pretty poor and wasn't going to be competing for the playoffs. Phil's hope for a quick turnaround was contingent on acquiring top free agents which has been a major issue for all Knick GMs since the early 2000s. Expecting 45-50 wins and a playoff birth was pretty optimistic as there have only been a handful of teams who've seen a 20+ game turn around from one season to the next.

Now Phil hasn't been great. Not signing a pg this past summer and the Calderon trade were pretty big fails but I don't believe undoing either move (or non-move) would've led us to the playoffs. People need to be patient. When Phil took over we knew it would be a 2-4 year turn around. If we see another 15 game improvement next year we're right in the middle of the eastern conference playoffs.

[dc]

Its hard to judge what Phil has done for us after only 2 seasons, but I will say this, I will lose alot of respect for him if he doesnt even interview Thibs. A man with his title shouldnt dictate what type of offense a team should run. Hes not a head coach anymore, hes the President. Find a way to acquire the best talent and hire the best candidates. This franchise would actually be a heck of a lot better if Phil hires Thibs and Phil actually stays and works alongside with him.

If that's what you think, then you had no idea how massive Phil's ego really is or what the Knicks were actually getting into when they brought Phil in.

From the moment he was hired, you had to have realized that Phil's role as president would be a situation completely different from any other team president's role. Basically, the guy wants to coach the team from the front office. No other team president is doing this.

Look at it from a day to day media standpoint: Everything is Phil this and Phil that. How does Phil want things run? Is the coach running enough triangle to keep Phil happy? Will Phil get Carmelo to buy into the system? Everything is Phil, Phil, Phil and more Phil.

Ask yourself this: How many Team Presidents in the league get this much media attention and focus on how they're choosing to run the team? How many Team Presidents get more attention than the coach? Does anyone scrutinize RC Buford this much? Bob Myers (the reigning executive of the year)? Or even Godfather Pat Riley? No. Nobody comes close to Phil. Maybe the only guy was Hinkie, but now he's gone.

You bring in Phil, you're bringing in his massive ego and it's a completely different experience than having anybody else as Team Pres.

[JXL]

Its hard to judge what Phil has done for us after only 2 seasons, but I will say this, I will lose alot of respect for him if he doesnt even interview Thibs. A man with his title shouldnt dictate what type of offense a team should run. Hes not a head coach anymore, hes the President. Find a way to acquire the best talent and hire the best candidates. This franchise would actually be a heck of a lot better if Phil hires Thibs and Phil actually stays and works alongside with him.

If that's what you think, then you had no idea how massive Phil's ego really is or what the Knicks were actually getting into when they brought Phil in.

From the moment he was hired, you had to have realized that Phil's role as president would be a situation completely different from any other team president's role. Basically, the guy wants to coach the team from the front office. No other team president is doing this.

Stan Van Gundy is. Runs the Pistons and coaches them. Phil's just not physically capable to do it.

Look at it from a day to day media standpoint: Everything is Phil this and Phil that. How does Phil want things run? Is the coach running enough triangle to keep Phil happy? Will Phil get Carmelo to buy into the system? Everything is Phil, Phil, Phil and more Phil.

Ask yourself this: How many Team Presidents in the league get this much media attention and focus on how they're choosing to run the team? How many Team Presidents get more attention than the coach? Does anyone scrutinize RC Buford this much? Bob Myers (the reigning executive of the year)? Or even Godfather Pat Riley? No. Nobody comes close to Phil. Maybe the only guy was Hinkie, but now he's gone.

You bring in Phil, you're bringing in his massive ego and it's a completely different experience than having anybody else as Team Pres.

And if he gets the better talent, getting that team in the postseason with a coach that shares his known philosophy, while on his throne at MSG, he'll make everyone eat crow. Got to give this time to bloom.

[dc]

Stan Van Gundy is. Runs the Pistons and coaches them. Phil's just not physically capable to do it.

That goes without saying. SVG is on the floor and actually coaches the team from there. That situation has happened before too with guys like Pat Riley and Don Nelson. Those guys coached the team and were essentially the team pres as well, except they didn't coach it from the front office. They coached from the floor.

Phil's situation is different, and I've never seen it done to the extent that he's doing it.

And if he gets the better talent, getting that team in the postseason with a coach that shares his known philosophy, while on his throne at MSG, he'll make everyone eat crow. Got to give this time to bloom.

And I never said he doesn't deserve a chance. Just pointing out to people what they should've expected from Phil from Day 1 when he was hired. This was going to be exactly how he was going to run the team. People up and arms about they can't believe Thibs won't even be considered; well, that's what you should've known from Phil from the start. That's how he operates. That's the system he runs. He runs a certain system with people he's familiar with.

[John Murdoch]

I hope we trade Phil to LA instead of just letting him walk

Ryan Kelly + a hj from Jeanie take it or leave it

[Johnny Hoops]

I don't want Phil to leave unless he gets rid of ghost of Prime Melo and his no-trade contract first.

[moocow007]

I hope we trade Phil to LA instead of just letting him walk

Ryan Kelly + a hj from Jeanie take it or leave it

[Amsterdam]

If Toronto were to let him leave and he did come to this team, why the hell would he try to help the Raptors? He's an executive, not a secret agent.

I don't think that was even the original posters intent either. But I do think the raptors would want compensation if they let him leave with 2 years left.

I'm a dumbass...I get what he was saying now, and that's a valid concern. My bad OP.

haha don't sweat it Bro.

[miamiKnick305]

Really? Who were we going to get in a s&t scenario from the tiny group of teams interested in him at the time? Chicago, and Houston had nothing to give us. What, do you think we'd get someone like JButler? No way in hell that would've happened...we would've ended up with Gibson at best.

A s&t scenario is worse when it comes to getting the players real value in return. We'd get much more even now than we would've back then.

Another point is that Melo needed that surgery. He ended up taking practically the whole year off which I think was part of the plan. Melo signed thinking he'd take the year off and Phil would add a major piece in FA that next summer and maybe even trade the lotto pick.

Melo prob thought DeAndre or Aldridge were going to come and either a known American/win now player (Winslow) was gunna be drafted or another star was gunna get acquired through trading it. When neither happened, we started hearing how Melo wasn't happy.

I think Phil is doing what he wants to do (rebuild) no matter what, and maybe told Melo what he wanted to hear or whatever it took to get him to stay in order to keep him as an asset.

Where do you get that tanking/rebuild is or has always been Phils plan because we have stunk it up so bad for two year's? Because he wants to keep Rambis? It just seems all who still believe in Phil like to believe that is and always has been his master plan so they have an excuse to still believe in him and not accept that he has no clue and is to stubborn to even hire best coach available. This guy has never planned on tanking, his coaching hires just like many other moves just haven't worked and the result are what they are....

I thought I made it pretty clear. I'm not going to repeat my last 5 posts in this thread for you. Go back and re-read them. But the only argument you raised against believing he has was that he didn't s&t Melo (which I explained) and that he hired/tried hiring two rookie coaches (Kerr and Fisher) which I also explained is not a win now move already.

What moves has he made to make us a win now team or at least tried and failed at? Doesn't look like he's tried to make one to put us into contention. You must be confusing him with Isiah.

No one asked you to respond to my post and your arguments make no sense to me and why bother since you are so sure Phil master plan has always been to tank lmao
Fired Fish to try to make the playoffs and traded no one for pics instead he tried to get a pg.....yeahy boy is sure trying to tank lol

[spree8]

Where do you get that tanking/rebuild is or has always been Phils plan because we have stunk it up so bad for two year's? Because he wants to keep Rambis? It just seems all who still believe in Phil like to believe that is and always has been his master plan so they have an excuse to still believe in him and not accept that he has no clue and is to stubborn to even hire best coach available. This guy has never planned on tanking, his coaching hires just like many other moves just haven't worked and the result are what they are....

I thought I made it pretty clear. I'm not going to repeat my last 5 posts in this thread for you. Go back and re-read them. But the only argument you raised against believing he has was that he didn't s&t Melo (which I explained) and that he hired/tried hiring two rookie coaches (Kerr and Fisher) which I also explained is not a win now move already.

What moves has he made to make us a win now team or at least tried and failed at? Doesn't look like he's tried to make one to put us into contention. You must be confusing him with Isiah.

No one asked you to respond to my post and your arguments make no sense to me and why bother since you are so sure Phil master plan has always been to tank lmao
Fired Fish to try to make the playoffs and traded no one for pics instead he tried to get a pg.....yeahy boy is sure trying to tank lol

Wtf? What are you like 12? You quoted me first dude, and therefore I responded.

[PeoplesChamp]

MSG was a circus before Phil arrived, it'll be one after he's gone and the Lakers are contenders again.

The front office, the media & the fanbase will continue to make this franchise an absolute joke.

I agree with everything you wrote except about the media.

The NY media treats teams like crap when they play like crap.

The Mets where dogged for years when they where shyt and are now media darlings.

The NY Jets are the only NY team that really has a legit gripe with the media IMO.

Build it right and win and the NY media will be fair like they where during the Ewing years when Lupica and yes, Isola, where said to be "pom-pom" guys for the Knicks, especially after they picked the Knicks to upset Miami back-to-back years as the 7th seed and then 8th seed.

The media dogged the Knicks during the Ewing years. Constantly comparing them unfavorably to the more athletic teams in the league and they almost never picked them in a big series. They did it to troll Knicks fans and to always appear tough and objective. Mitch Lawrence, Marc Berman & Steve Serby consistently dogged the Knicks. Lawrence in particular always showed nothing but hate for the Knicks. Even on the radio during Mike & the Mad Dog's heyday they constantly piled on Ewing.