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CluelessJackson wrote:Sark wrote:nytonm wrote:Lol so are we supposed to avoid the playoffs untill we can get a top seed? There is such a thing as making incremental improvements each season.
No, just avoid it till you get talent.
who is the gal in your user picture?
Sark wrote:CluelessJackson wrote:Sark wrote:
No, just avoid it till you get talent.
who is the gal in your user picture?
Suelyn Madeiros.
Sark wrote:HerSports85 wrote:Sark wrote:
So 1 time in the history of the league, in a strike shortened season. And we should bank on this as our path to prosperity?
What are you talking about? The OP was talking about putting yourself in a position to get into the playoffs because you never know what may happen. Would you like for us to tank forever? No, starting off as an 7th or 8th seed is not bad, it's a stepping stone and is most likely going to happen. Think you missed the point.
But to the point that 7th and 8th seeds have zero chance to do anything, yes.. you missed the 1999 Knicks ... How? Also lets not forget the 8th seed sixers that beat Chicago and went and took the celtics to 7 games in 2012. What about the Grizzles knocking out the Spurs that year in 2011 when Dallas won it all ... instead of the dominate #1 seed spurs.
The Op was saying with all these injuries this year.. you never know. That's the point.
I've already mentioned the 1999 Knicks. In an 82 game season, they would've been a top 4 seed. I mean if all it takes is a strike season to do it, then we have a chance every 7 or 8 years or so.
2012 Bulls Sixers was again a strike shortened season, and also the year Derrick Rose tore his ACL. I mean if praying for injury is our path to success, I can guarantee our success percentage will be low. It happens, but it's not common.
I'm not saying to tank forever. I'm saying to tank till you have talent, then once you do you go for a low seed.
Melo doesn't need another first round loss. He's got more experience with those than almost anyone in the NBA. What we need is a team that can actually get past the first round, and has a real future. A race to the 8 seed with a team with no chance to get better is a race on the treadmill. The worst place in the world to be.
Sark wrote:NoLayupRule wrote:Man
Looking at the west right now is proof that you do whatever you can to get into the playoffs
Paul and curry out right now and griffin possibly out
You never know what's gonna happen
7th or 8th seeding isn't always a kiss of death
Det may not have made it but I'll bet they feel like they grew to the next level
And Portland is looking like they are on the fast track to the next level too
Houston - down 3-1
Detroit - swept
Memphis - swept
Dallas - lost 4-1
Bottom seeds have virtually no chance in the NBA playoffs. Knicks have gotten in as a bottom seed before, and never even won a game in recent history.
Sark wrote:nytonm wrote:Lol so are we supposed to avoid the playoffs untill we can get a top seed? There is such a thing as making incremental improvements each season.
No, just avoid it till you get talent.
NoLayupRule wrote:Sark wrote:NoLayupRule wrote:Man
Looking at the west right now is proof that you do whatever you can to get into the playoffs
Paul and curry out right now and griffin possibly out
You never know what's gonna happen
7th or 8th seeding isn't always a kiss of death
Det may not have made it but I'll bet they feel like they grew to the next level
And Portland is looking like they are on the fast track to the next level too
Houston - down 3-1
Detroit - swept
Memphis - swept
Dallas - lost 4-1
Bottom seeds have virtually no chance in the NBA playoffs. Knicks have gotten in as a bottom seed before, and never even won a game in recent history.
Hey look
i can do that too!
Mia - Cha - tied 2/2
Tor - Ind - tied 2/2
8th seeds don't often beat 1st seeds but they do sometimes, as we did vs Mia
But thats not the point
you get into the playoffs and then you improve and do better
its a process
Detroit feels great about the improvements they have made
Chi isn't psyched they have a better pick
and the separation between 8-6 seeds is often not a lot
also Im sorry your "recent history" doesn't go back to 2014 when we more than "won a game"
Greenie wrote:DrCoach wrote:moocow007 wrote:
The only problem is that he's not Allan Houston.
Maybe not, but here is the Per 36 mins on Crabbe and Houstons 1st yr as a Knick
Crabbe 14.2pts 3.7rebs 1.7 assts 1.1 stls 46%FG 39% 3pt 87%Ft
Houston 16.0 pts 3.2rebs 2.9 assts 0.7stls 42%Fg 39%3pt 80%Ft
You're already starting off wrong with your thought process.
Now if we do sign Crabbe and you actually see him everyday to understand that he is NOT H20 you will be upset. Crabbe is Crabbe. Decent shooter with a little defense. Needs work. A lot of it.
Sark wrote:We should definitely not sign injured players, especially to long term expensive deals. Did we not learn anything from Amar'e?
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
nytonm wrote:Sark wrote:nytonm wrote:Lol so are we supposed to avoid the playoffs untill we can get a top seed? There is such a thing as making incremental improvements each season.
No, just avoid it till you get talent.
The problem is that we already have talent, we have a perennial all star in Melo a good center in Rolo and a rookie phenom in KP who will probably be better next year. Were not bad enough to get top draft picks, so trying to add talent in the late lottery is going to be a crapshoot (we've had several late lottery picks in the last decade plus how has worked out for us talent wise?) and only slightly less of a crapshoot than if we were to sneak into the playoffs and draft a few spots later. That being said why avoid the playoffs? KP and Grant would benefit from the experience, we as fans get to watch winning basketball and most importantly it would make the Knicks more attractive to free agents next year (who we would still be able to afford even if we spend to the cap this year).
knickst4pe wrote:Sark wrote:We should definitely not sign injured players, especially to long term expensive deals. Did we not learn anything from Amar'e?
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
oh boy you can not be serious
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:nytonm wrote:Floozenheimen wrote:
My one gigantic worry is Dolan. The Nets have been a catalyst for Jimmy Boy to do stupid things ever since Prokhorov took over. He jumped the gun on Melo, he traded for Bargs, all because of his fear of losing out to the Nets. If his ego gets in the way again this time around with the Nets showing interest in Conley, we could see Dolan force us to spend 25+ per year for Conley. That scares the heck out of me. Hopefully Phil can keep him at bay while the grown ups decide on the team's future.
Why does that scare you so much? If we gave Conley 25 mil we could still have up to 30 mil in cap space next summer. And if Conley gets us into the playoffs next season then we'd actually have a chance at signing one of those 2017 free agents. We can't assume that he's definitely going to get reinjured, sometimes taking risks pays off.
If we gave Conley 25 mil, then which FA are we going to be targeting in 2017 exactly? The best FA's in that class are at the PG position, and the ones that aren't like CJ McCollum and Giannis are restricted and we will never get them. It would be better if we solidified the SG position this summer and addressed the PG position next offseason. Honestly, if we want to become more than just some alright playoff team and actually be in contention, then we need to get our hands one of KD and Westbrook. KD is highly unlikely, so we should be doing everything that we can to put ourselves in a position to get Russell in 2017.
spree8 wrote:NoLayupRule wrote:Sark wrote:
Houston - down 3-1
Detroit - swept
Memphis - swept
Dallas - lost 4-1
Bottom seeds have virtually no chance in the NBA playoffs. Knicks have gotten in as a bottom seed before, and never even won a game in recent history.
Hey look
i can do that too!
Mia - Cha - tied 2/2
Tor - Ind - tied 2/2
8th seeds don't often beat 1st seeds but they do sometimes, as we did vs Mia
But thats not the point
you get into the playoffs and then you improve and do better
its a process
Detroit feels great about the improvements they have made
Chi isn't psyched they have a better pick
and the separation between 8-6 seeds is often not a lot
also Im sorry your "recent history" doesn't go back to 2014 when we more than "won a game"
Wait, we are just ignoring all the years that the Pistons and Hornets have been rebuilding up until now? Can’t spin history to suit an argument.
Although Chicago (a perennial playoff team) doesn’t like missing the playoffs, they will prob benefit from it the way that the Pacers did last year with PG out (getting Myles Turner…a key contributor for that team.)
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor
Knickstape1214 wrote:knickst4pe wrote:Sark wrote:We should definitely not sign injured players, especially to long term expensive deals. Did we not learn anything from Amar'e?
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
oh boy you can not be serious
You want to sign injured / injury prone players...?
newyorker4ever wrote:NYKnicksTAPE wrote:nytonm wrote:Why does that scare you so much? If we gave Conley 25 mil we could still have up to 30 mil in cap space next summer. And if Conley gets us into the playoffs next season then we'd actually have a chance at signing one of those 2017 free agents. We can't assume that he's definitely going to get reinjured, sometimes taking risks pays off.
If we gave Conley 25 mil, then which FA are we going to be targeting in 2017 exactly? The best FA's in that class are at the PG position, and the ones that aren't like CJ McCollum and Giannis are restricted and we will never get them. It would be better if we solidified the SG position this summer and addressed the PG position next offseason. Honestly, if we want to become more than just some alright playoff team and actually be in contention, then we need to get our hands one of KD and Westbrook. KD is highly unlikely, so we should be doing everything that we can to put ourselves in a position to get Russell in 2017.
The best thing we have going for us right now that Russ could be attracted to is New York City being such a big city for fashion cause Russ loves his fashion.
spree8 wrote:Honestly, this topic needs to just stop already. It's been discussed for too long. We've had a poll on it and 2/3's of the people here are in favor of rebuilding. Nobody here is going to change their mind on either side.
Some people think we should just keep doing our best to sign mediocre players and try to push for a playoff spot immediately.
Others want to trade Melo and rebuild around KP.
Then there's the middle...which I'm warming up to...
The likelihood of us trading Melo is slim because he might not actually want out. Then there's this FA class, or lack there of...we really dont have many options to improve that much. Even if we made a couple decent signings, the overall impact would be offset by losing Afflalo and DWill (and maybe even Lance). We also have no draft picks, and no trade assets to use. And Rambis is probably returning.
With that said, I'd be fine with another lotto pick next summer, and trying to grab a big FA in that talented class. We could have our two main pieces for the future (Kp, and 2017 1st) and the two main pieces for the present (Melo and 2017 FA).
..I'm guessing this "middle ground" is the more likely scenario.
Sark wrote:Knickstape1214 wrote:knickst4pe wrote:
oh boy you can not be serious
You want to sign injured / injury prone players...?
I think it's in our DNA to sign injured players at this point.
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:nytonm wrote:Floozenheimen wrote:
My one gigantic worry is Dolan. The Nets have been a catalyst for Jimmy Boy to do stupid things ever since Prokhorov took over. He jumped the gun on Melo, he traded for Bargs, all because of his fear of losing out to the Nets. If his ego gets in the way again this time around with the Nets showing interest in Conley, we could see Dolan force us to spend 25+ per year for Conley. That scares the heck out of me. Hopefully Phil can keep him at bay while the grown ups decide on the team's future.
Why does that scare you so much? If we gave Conley 25 mil we could still have up to 30 mil in cap space next summer. And if Conley gets us into the playoffs next season then we'd actually have a chance at signing one of those 2017 free agents. We can't assume that he's definitely going to get reinjured, sometimes taking risks pays off.
If we gave Conley 25 mil, then which FA are we going to be targeting in 2017 exactly? The best FA's in that class are at the PG position, and the ones that aren't like CJ McCollum and Giannis are restricted and we will never get them. It would be better if we solidified the SG position this summer and addressed the PG position next offseason. Honestly, if we want to become more than just some alright playoff team and actually be in contention, then we need to get our hands one of KD and Westbrook. KD is highly unlikely, so we should be doing everything that we can to put ourselves in a position to get Russell in 2017.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor
dakomish23 wrote:spree8 wrote:NoLayupRule wrote:Hey look
i can do that too!
Mia - Cha - tied 2/2
Tor - Ind - tied 2/2
8th seeds don't often beat 1st seeds but they do sometimes, as we did vs Mia
But thats not the point
you get into the playoffs and then you improve and do better
its a process
Detroit feels great about the improvements they have made
Chi isn't psyched they have a better pick
and the separation between 8-6 seeds is often not a lot
also Im sorry your "recent history" doesn't go back to 2014 when we more than "won a game"
Wait, we are just ignoring all the years that the Pistons and Hornets have been rebuilding up until now? Can’t spin history to suit an argument.
Although Chicago (a perennial playoff team) doesn’t like missing the playoffs, they will prob benefit from it the way that the Pacers did last year with PG out (getting Myles Turner…a key contributor for that team.)
CHA traded both their 2014 1st rd picks for key contributors to this year's team (Vonleh for Batum & Hairston for Lee). They also signed Big Al, Lance & Lin.
I get your argument but CHA isn't the team that built the ought he draft then supplemented in FA & trade. A good example of that is OKC / GSW / SAS / and what looks like a future perennial contender in MIN.
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:nytonm wrote:Sark wrote:
No, just avoid it till you get talent.
The problem is that we already have talent, we have a perennial all star in Melo a good center in Rolo and a rookie phenom in KP who will probably be better next year. Were not bad enough to get top draft picks, so trying to add talent in the late lottery is going to be a crapshoot (we've had several late lottery picks in the last decade plus how has worked out for us talent wise?) and only slightly less of a crapshoot than if we were to sneak into the playoffs and draft a few spots later. That being said why avoid the playoffs? KP and Grant would benefit from the experience, we as fans get to watch winning basketball and most importantly it would make the Knicks more attractive to free agents next year (who we would still be able to afford even if we spend to the cap this year).
What free agents are we affording next offseason if we spend up to the cap this year? A starting max salary is projected be at over 32 mil/yr next season for players with 7-9 years of experience and at almost 38 mil/yr for players with 10 or more years of experience. Even just role players will be costing u a ton next year. We would have to give out a decent sized 1 year deal to somebody this summer (it would be best if it was at the PG position).
