Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Moderators: mpharris36, GONYK, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,091
- And1: 925
- Joined: Nov 08, 2001
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
I liked the Marbs trade. Thought he'd get us some play-off wins.
New-York Knicks fan since 1998, based in Paris, FR.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- Floozenheimen
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 913
- And1: 677
- Joined: Jul 15, 2015
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
dakomish23 wrote:Floozenheimen wrote:I thought Melo was on LeBrons level when we traded for him. I was mistaken. He's solid but there is no comparison and not worth what we gave up.
There are maybe 10 guys in NBA history on par with Lebron.
I realize that now, but at the time of the trade Melo was hyped up to be the LeBron killer. At that point in time the head to head matchups favored Melo. He not only won more games but performed extremely well. He was also known around the league as the best closer in the game. At the time I thought we legit had a chance to contend with Melo and A'mare with the Heat. The thread title is about expectations and what really happened. My expectations were to compete for a title and we were never even close. Not a knock on Melo. It's really on me for expecting too much from him and the team at that point in time.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 58,966
- And1: 30,697
- Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Capn'O wrote::lol:
We've all had our strikes and gutters. Lord knows I have.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 164
- And1: 50
- Joined: May 22, 2006
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
TheDavinciCHODE wrote:nykballa2k4 wrote:
More recently, I gave benefit of the doubt to the Chandler for Jose Calderon move.
Was that move really that bad?
Chandler was coming off of a broken league season, wasn't playing very well and was going into the final year of a 14.5 mil contract that we wouldn't be able to pay. Plus he would have made us too good that season on defense. The market for him really wasn't good, and Dallas wanted him partly because of the "home court" feel because he won a title there.
We also ditched Felton who was stinking up the locker room.
So the move was to basically save money, prevent us from having to pay Chandler, get us into the tank and try to acquire assets.
Phil definitely overrated Jose Calderon, but he did actually have 11.5/5 on 42% from 3 that season with Dallas, and PJ prob thought he'd be great for the triangle and that we desperately needed legit 3 point shooters.
I think we also got some 2nd rounders, too.
We also got cheap looks at Shane Larkin and Wayne Ellington. They both turned into nothing, but nothing wrong with taking a shot.
So yeah, long story short, probably could have gotten more for chandler, but PJ wanted to save $, and thought Calderon would be better than he was. Overall not a terrible deal, especially seeing as it helped us tank hard. The worst part of it was thatCalderon's contract was 3 more seasons. That sucks
It was a disaster. He was our one real asset besides Melo, and we got no benefits from the trade and Calderon's contract is still hurting us. As far as tanking, we still would have sucked with him, and probably been able to trade him for a first rounder and/or young guys at the deadline. The trade wasn't done to tank, it was done because Phil thought that Calderon was a good fit for our offense, and as a leader on the court. That wasn't unreasonable, so it wasn't as bad as other moves we've made where everyone knew it was terrible at the time, but it played out terribly.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- dakomish23
- Forum Mod - Knicks
- Posts: 56,255
- And1: 45,309
- Joined: Sep 22, 2013
- Location: Empire State
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Floozenheimen wrote:dakomish23 wrote:Floozenheimen wrote:I thought Melo was on LeBrons level when we traded for him. I was mistaken. He's solid but there is no comparison and not worth what we gave up.
There are maybe 10 guys in NBA history on par with Lebron.
I realize that now, but at the time of the trade Melo was hyped up to be the LeBron killer. At that point in time the head to head matchups favored Melo. He not only won more games but performed extremely well. He was also known around the league as the best closer in the game. At the time I thought we legit had a chance to contend with Melo and A'mare with the Heat. The thread title is about expectations and what really happened. My expectations were to compete for a title and we were never even close. Not a knock on Melo. It's really on me for expecting too much from him and the team at that point in time.
Yeah I'm not sayin you are knocking Melo. Just saying that turned out to be a bar too high for 99.9% of all NBA players ever to reach.
Also didn't help with the terrible decisions by this organization after acquiring Melo
- Opted in to Billups only to amnesty him
- By using the amnesty, we were capped out with the worst contract in the NBA
- Passing on trading for Crawford to keep Douglas and Fields
- Passing on Butler, Jackson and Faried for Shump
- Letting Lin go for free
- trading picks to sign and trade for Felton off a terrible year and Camby with one foot out of the door
- the Bargs deal which continues to haunt us
- the Tyson deal where we terribly underestimated his value
- not getting a PG this past FA
Anyway, let's see what happens
Spoiler:
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor
#FreeJimmit
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- Manhattan Project
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 39,356
- And1: 7,949
- Joined: Feb 23, 2005
- Location: The game ain't in me no more. None of it.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Ashamed at some of you "So Called Knick fans" YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!
Jazz:
Allen l Wagner
Randle l Olynyk
Porter Jr l Marshall l Tucker
Herro l Okogie l Payton
Fox l Jones
Allen l Wagner
Randle l Olynyk
Porter Jr l Marshall l Tucker
Herro l Okogie l Payton
Fox l Jones
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,625
- And1: 1,963
- Joined: Jun 21, 2013
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
I thought it was Mudiay or bust on draft night
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,487
- And1: 4,164
- Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
JayKnicKz11 wrote:I thought Tim Thomas was going to beast. Also Marbury. I remember thinking ZBo was going to beast. I believed in Calderon, boy was I wrong. I thought Larkin was a steal.
We traded Jr and Shump for absolutely nothing lol
I remember I was hyping up Zbo BIG, forced my boys to watch the Knicks on LP for his first couple of games. The day we acquired Marbury I was in Cabo and when I got news of that...well lets just say I don't really remember the rest of that day/night.
I thought Larkin was going to be able to produce like Ty Lawson.
The JR and Shump trade I was skeptical about because we got very little back, was tired of both tbh but that was a smart move.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,487
- And1: 4,164
- Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Manhattan Project wrote:Ashamed at some of you "So Called Knick fans" YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!
Frank Williams?
Pretty sure thats who it is. I thought he was going to be a player, too. I can't even remember what happened to him or him doing a thing. Just blank.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- Manhattan Project
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 39,356
- And1: 7,949
- Joined: Feb 23, 2005
- Location: The game ain't in me no more. None of it.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
NY2TheBay wrote:
Frank Williams?
Pretty sure thats who it is. I thought he was going to be a player, too. I can't even remember what happened to him or him doing a thing. Just blank.
He essentially started a few games that good ole Knicks hype train was running full charge.
I could also say that most of this board at the time was enamored with rookie Fields and did indeed hold him as an untouchable prospect... as they did with Frye.
Posters just get to passionate with some of the moves, it's why it's always best to be optimistic but keep it level headed because you know it's gonna be messed up eventually.
Jazz:
Allen l Wagner
Randle l Olynyk
Porter Jr l Marshall l Tucker
Herro l Okogie l Payton
Fox l Jones
Allen l Wagner
Randle l Olynyk
Porter Jr l Marshall l Tucker
Herro l Okogie l Payton
Fox l Jones
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,487
- And1: 4,164
- Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Manhattan Project wrote:NY2TheBay wrote:
Frank Williams?
Pretty sure thats who it is. I thought he was going to be a player, too. I can't even remember what happened to him or him doing a thing. Just blank.
He essentially started a few games that good ole Knicks hype train was running full charge.
I could also say that most of this board at the time was enamored with rookie Fields and did indeed hold him as an untouchable prospect... as they did with Frye.
Posters just get to passionate with some of the moves, it's why it's always best to be optimistic but keep it level headed because you know it's gonna be messed up eventually.
Agreed. I wasn't around here for the Williams hype train but experienced the rookie Fields love. Thought he was going to progress. I do remember even the FO not wanting to part with him and preferring Gallinari in the Melo deal, IIRC.
Out here in the Bay it is similar but not to the same level. Fans boo'd the Monta/Bogut trade; they didnt want to see Monta leave. I personally didn't because of Klay and the Warriors being an historically atrocious defensive team.
Fans get an emotional attachment to players when the majority should be looked at as potential assets if you aren't a championship caliber team.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,428
- And1: 5,834
- Joined: Jul 26, 2004
- Location: Kurt Rhombus is managing the defense...
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
mattkabara wrote:TheDavinciCHODE wrote:nykballa2k4 wrote:
More recently, I gave benefit of the doubt to the Chandler for Jose Calderon move.
Was that move really that bad?
Chandler was coming off of a broken league season, wasn't playing very well and was going into the final year of a 14.5 mil contract that we wouldn't be able to pay. Plus he would have made us too good that season on defense. The market for him really wasn't good, and Dallas wanted him partly because of the "home court" feel because he won a title there.
We also ditched Felton who was stinking up the locker room.
So the move was to basically save money, prevent us from having to pay Chandler, get us into the tank and try to acquire assets.
Phil definitely overrated Jose Calderon, but he did actually have 11.5/5 on 42% from 3 that season with Dallas, and PJ prob thought he'd be great for the triangle and that we desperately needed legit 3 point shooters.
I think we also got some 2nd rounders, too.
We also got cheap looks at Shane Larkin and Wayne Ellington. They both turned into nothing, but nothing wrong with taking a shot.
So yeah, long story short, probably could have gotten more for chandler, but PJ wanted to save $, and thought Calderon would be better than he was. Overall not a terrible deal, especially seeing as it helped us tank hard. The worst part of it was thatCalderon's contract was 3 more seasons. That sucks
It was a disaster. He was our one real asset besides Melo, and we got no benefits from the trade and Calderon's contract is still hurting us. As far as tanking, we still would have sucked with him, and probably been able to trade him for a first rounder and/or young guys at the deadline. The trade wasn't done to tank, it was done because Phil thought that Calderon was a good fit for our offense, and as a leader on the court. That wasn't unreasonable, so it wasn't as bad as other moves we've made where everyone knew it was terrible at the time, but it played out terribly.
The Bargnani trade will go down as possibly one of the worst of all time. Trading 2 2nd's and a 1st for absolutely nothing. Inexcusable.
Numbers don't lie, people who use them do
What do you think about @kporzee? Karl-Anthony Towns: PorzinGOD does not care or need my opinion for he is a higher life form then all of us.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,428
- And1: 5,834
- Joined: Jul 26, 2004
- Location: Kurt Rhombus is managing the defense...
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
NY2TheBay wrote:Manhattan Project wrote:NY2TheBay wrote:
Frank Williams?
Pretty sure thats who it is. I thought he was going to be a player, too. I can't even remember what happened to him or him doing a thing. Just blank.
He essentially started a few games that good ole Knicks hype train was running full charge.
I could also say that most of this board at the time was enamored with rookie Fields and did indeed hold him as an untouchable prospect... as they did with Frye.
Posters just get to passionate with some of the moves, it's why it's always best to be optimistic but keep it level headed because you know it's gonna be messed up eventually.
Agreed. I wasn't around here for the Williams hype train but experienced the rookie Fields love. Thought he was going to progress. I do remember even the FO not wanting to part with him and preferring Gallinari in the Melo deal, IIRC.
Out here in the Bay it is similar but not to the same level. Fans boo'd the Monta/Bogut trade; they didnt want to see Monta leave. I personally didn't because of Klay and the Warriors being an historically atrocious defensive team.
Fans get an emotional attachment to players when the majority should be looked at as potential assets if you aren't a championship caliber team.
Frank Williams may have been something special. We traded him too soon. Dude got a triple double as a rookie. If he were not in jail right now, he might be our starting point guard.
Numbers don't lie, people who use them do
What do you think about @kporzee? Karl-Anthony Towns: PorzinGOD does not care or need my opinion for he is a higher life form then all of us.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 58,966
- And1: 30,697
- Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Statrax wrote:I thought it was Mudiay or bust on draft night
I said he was garbo...right again
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- aq_ua
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 21,166
- And1: 7,167
- Joined: May 08, 2002
- Location: Optimistic but realistic
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
1999 wrote:Who else thought Jerome James would be at the very least solid? Knicks had no centers at the time. I also thought Knicks should've retained Lee Nailon.
I see your Lee Nailon and raise you John Wallace as the offensive solution to our defense only team.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,973
- And1: 2,994
- Joined: May 16, 2013
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
I hated the signing of DWill and now I'm a big fan of his.
I remember rubbing it in my friends face that we traded for Eddie Curry like he was the future and whats worse is he was. Future hell
I remember rubbing it in my friends face that we traded for Eddie Curry like he was the future and whats worse is he was. Future hell
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- F N 11
- RealGM
- Posts: 88,864
- And1: 61,353
- Joined: Jun 27, 2006
- Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
- Contact:
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Boy did I think Mo Taylor was going to be a problem. I thought Stevie Franchise and Marbuiry were going to be like the "F the world crew" and dominate. That did not work out well lol.
CEO of the not trading RJ club.
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,947
- And1: 5,363
- Joined: Apr 19, 2002
- Location: Medford, NY
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
I thought Milos Vujanic was going to come over and be our solution at PG.....
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- Phish Tank
- RealGM
- Posts: 19,403
- And1: 12,333
- Joined: Nov 09, 2004
- Location: Your Timepiece
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
Back in the old days: I thought Maciej Lampe was the steal of the 2003 draft. I thought Mike Sweetney wouldn't eat his way out of the NBA and be a serviceable player for us after having a good collegiate career at Georgetown. Remember at that time, there were 0 tall(no one was taller than 6'9), young and/or athletic players on the Knicks. None, nil, zero, zilch. Like our team may have had maybe like 20 dunks the entire year. I was waiting games and games just to see someone dunk and instead I'd get a Kurt Thomas or Othella Harrington layup. Houston never dunked. You'd be lucky to get Spree to dunk consistently as he was shooting way more jumpers at that time. Our best dunkers were Clarence Weatherspoon (LOL) & Shandon Anderson (SMH). We had zero athleticism.
Heck, I even thought having McDyess would be a difference maker at some point. I didn't think he'd get injured in preseason tho. That's even why Marbury brought excitement as he was faster than any other
damn I was like 14-15 back then
Heck, I even thought having McDyess would be a difference maker at some point. I didn't think he'd get injured in preseason tho. That's even why Marbury brought excitement as he was faster than any other
damn I was like 14-15 back then
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
- JXL
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,679
- And1: 8,382
- Joined: Sep 01, 2013
- Location: New York
- Contact:
Re: Trades or personnel moves you were wrong about
-The Chandler trade; in hindsight it was a 50-50 move.
-The Bargs trade; I thought at least he would be less terrible, but I was wrong, and it cost us a pick on top of that.
-The D-Will signing; My initial thought was "He's gonna screw up". Now, he's a bonafide 6th man that I want back.
-The JR/Iman trade; looking at that trade, Phil should've gotten more from that, but I understood the trade back then because their value was too low then,
-The Bargs trade; I thought at least he would be less terrible, but I was wrong, and it cost us a pick on top of that.
-The D-Will signing; My initial thought was "He's gonna screw up". Now, he's a bonafide 6th man that I want back.
-The JR/Iman trade; looking at that trade, Phil should've gotten more from that, but I understood the trade back then because their value was too low then,