Frank Vogel

TheDavinciCHODE · Post #1 » by **TheDavinciCHODE** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:23 pm

So news broke that he doesn't actually have a new contract, and as is the fad in the NBA, any coach that gets the most out of his roster but isn't able to win a playoff series against a vastly more talented team with a hodgepodge of vets and rookies is going to not be asked back.

The Knicks, if they don't go with Blatt, should definitely look into him. The Pacers have had good defensive personnel in his tenure, but he has always gotten the most out of them. He got them to play very hard, always had a lockdown defense, and helped the development of a few good players, especially PG.

He doesn't seem like a brilliant offensive mind, but that can be assuaged with good assistants, and if Phil is married to the triangle, then I'm sure Rambo will be sticking around, and he's shown he knows how to coach it.

Vogel will definitely command the respect of the players, something Rambis doesn't seem to do, and he will really help us on the defensive end. He has a winning record, lots of deep playoff experience, and experience with helping young players develop.

What impressed me most was this season, though. This roster was not one that blew any away, and of course a lot of credit goes to PG, but there was so much turnover, so many over-the-hill guys and young guys, and he really helped get them to a respectable record and near 1st round upset. The Pacers were 3rd in defense this season, and that can't be just because of personnel alone.

STRENGTHS:

Not Kurt Rambis, Defense, development, and basic coaching capabilities(something that our main candidate doesn't have)

Weaknesses:

Makes some interesting plays down the stretch, never shown great offensive imagination, gets kind of stubborn with lineups sometimes

Post #2 » by **King of Canada** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:27 pm

Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

Knicks Byke · Post #3 » by **Knicks Byke** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:32 pm

King of Canada wrote:Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

i agree with this post. he cost them the series, it was definitely winnable

Post #4 » by **dakomish23** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:32 pm

King of Canada wrote:Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

He might be the perfect guy. Fix our defense. Offensive system is picked out for him.

Anyway, won't happen. Rampiss is a lock

swisscheeseD · Post #5 » by **swisscheeseD** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:43 pm

He's already got the relationship with Brian Shaw as well. Maybe Phil sees puppet-potential in him.

Plus, we may have the inside track on ya boiiii Lance Stephenson in Free Agency.

:lol:

Phish Tank · Post #6 » by **Phish Tank** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:46 pm

if it means anything, he was an advanced scout for the Lakers when Phil was re-hired in 05-06. Probably means nothing.

But hey, he's a fairly young guy and I can see him adapting his offensive strategy, or lack thereof, to the triangle. He can teach defense, which is all we need anyways.

If Larry Bird's stupid enough to fire him, then sure.

NYKnicksTAPE · Post #7 » by **NYKnicksTAPE** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:51 pm

I'd still definitely prefer Blatt over him, but he's better than most of the remaining candidates out there, and he's definitely better than Rambis.

Phish Tank · Post #8 » by **Phish Tank** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:55 pm

I actually think offensive creativity may be Vogel's only real weakness. I know Pacer fans will complain about rotations & whatnot, which could be a real gripe, but that's something every coach is quirky about and fans of all teams hate about their respective coach. I mean, when's the last time a coach is applauded for his rotations? Hell, even Pop is chastised for it.

reub · Post #9 » by **reub** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:01 pm

Paul George actually blew game 7 with his bonehead plays at the end. Turnovers, bad passes, charging fouls all in the last 2 minutes.

EricAnderson · Post #10 » by **EricAnderson** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:30 pm

Phish Tank wrote:I actually think offensive creativity may be Vogel's only real weakness. I know Pacer fans will complain about rotations & whatnot, which could be a real gripe, but that's something every coach is quirky about and fans of all teams hate about their respective coach. I mean, when's the last time a coach is applauded for his rotations? Hell, even Pop is chastised for it.

I agree I usually care less about rotations but Vogel was pretty awful in the Raptor series. He literally cost them game 5 opening the 4th quarter up like 13 leaving his awful second unit in there for more then half the quarter leaving George out when he could have stepped on their throat. He's done this a few times in the series.

Offensively he's also as bad as I've seen since like the Fratello days. He runs nothing

BigShot Bojan · Post #11 » by **BigShot Bojan** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:43 pm

King of Canada wrote:Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

to a team significantly more talented...

god shammgod · Post #12 » by **god shammgod** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:43 pm

i don't think the thibs criticism of his offense is at all accurate but with vogel it kind of is. i have to admit that. but he's really good defensively. it doesn't matter anyway, he has no chance of even getting an interview.

Post #13 » by **King of Canada** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:46 pm

knicks85 wrote:
King of Canada wrote:Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

to a team significantly more talented...

Did you watch game 5? Pacers were up by 15 at the beginning of the 4th, and their offense was brutally stagnant. Raps started a run, and he sat George for way too long. I watched the game and was saying out loud that he was going to lose this one if he didn't put George back in. By the time he did it was far too late. He blew it. If they had won game 5 the Pacers win that series.

Post #14 » by **mpharris36** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:46 pm

god shammgod wrote:i don't think the thibs criticism of his offense is at all accurate but with vogel it kind of is. i have to admit that. but he's really good defensively. it doesn't matter anyway, he has no chance of even getting an interview.

BowlRips · Post #15 » by **BowlRips** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:51 pm

mods lets merge..

Triple C · Post #16 » by **Triple C** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:53 pm

Vogel has more playoff wins than Thibs, 31 vs 23, and has been to the ECF twice. I'm not saying he's better than Thibs, but he's good.

BowlRips · Post #17 » by **BowlRips** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:55 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
King of Canada wrote:Don't we already have 14 active threads about coaches? No thanks to this guy. He just blew a series in a stretch of 5 minutes.

He might be the perfect guy. Fix our defense. Offensive system is picked out for him.

Anyway, won't happen. Rampiss is a lock

Right, thats why im sort of surprised that Phil has found a motivator for the head coaching job and then let Rambis instill the offense.. like what he did with Tex Winter

Greenie · Post #18 » by **Greenie** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:59 pm

NYKnicksTAPE wrote:I'd still definitely prefer Blatt over him, but he's better than most of the remaining candidates out there, and he's definitely better than Rambis.

Nah, Vogal is better than Blatt.

Post #19 » by **mpharris36** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:03 pm

Greenie wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:I'd still definitely prefer Blatt over him, but he's better than most of the remaining candidates out there, and he's definitely better than Rambis.

Nah, Vogal is better than Blatt.

I thought you were all about offense greenie? Blatt destroys Vogal in terms of offensive creativity.

Post #20 » by **King of Canada** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:04 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for him over Rambis. He has put a winning team on the court for the most part.