The direction of the franchise from here

[iAdoreeKnicks]

Stop overrating our players..

[RHODEY]

I am surprise some people are high on Wroton as he is quite injury prone and a combo guard cannot shoot on a reliable status. Yes he has some fancy ball handling skill but again the issue is whether he can stay healthy or not. Please take a look of his past record in last few season of how many games he has played, it was actually not too optimistic. I hope he proves me wrong too.

We are high on what he could potentially give us. He's a classic low risk high reward case. My expectations will be tempered. But honestly he's had a sh it load of time to recover.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

wroten is gonna be our poor mans harden, book it

Or maybe our 6'6" Rondo minus the court vision?

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

[stopstandthere]

wroten is gonna be our poor mans harden, book it

Or maybe our 6'6" Rondo minus the court vision?

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

Wroten is the poor man Harden minus shooting ability please.

[stopstandthere]

Stop overrating our players..

We have been doing this over decades. It is our habit.

[nykballa2k4]

I, like I'm sure the rest of the board, am happy that Rambo isn't coming back, and that we have a legit coach that has proven capable of winning games with a modern style of play. Don't care who it is. Horny has what it takes and the player I'm sure repsect him, especially since nobody on this team is old enough to remember Rambis elbowing Celtics players below the belt in the finals, but I'm sure many can remember Hornacek mixing it up with the Bulls.

Listening to Dunc'd on Podcast got me thinking. He thought that this signaled to the world that PJ had given up on the triangle, and given up on molding the team in his image, and that his mutual opt out would be agreed upon next season.

I'm not so sure about that, but it does seem to hold a little water.

This team has an offensive weapon that the league cannot guard. If KP comes into his own(which I am 100% sure he will), then he will be an unstoppable scorer. Especially in this era. He's the kind of big that can pick and pop to the 3, keep the defense honest, AND take his man off the dribble and make the pass. What's more, he is kind of big that can still post and toast his defender, meaning just simply swithcing out to guard his 3 with a smaller guy will still result in a solid look or open shot for a teammate.

the problem with our squad is that PJ and Ramb-daddy kept trying to make him into Hakeem on the block and asked him to spot up from 3 or create for himself. Bad ideas.

Despite being incredibly efficient(relatively to his other situations), Porzingis was rarely featured in the pick and pop or cutting to the basket(partly his fault). Instead he was asked to post up or spot up, which KILLED his advantages on his defender(height, length, speed, etc basically everything). With a capable point guard and 3 point shooting, this team could build a great offense just around KP alone. Not next season, but soon.

I see our peak as a franchise with a star wing or ball handler, KP at Center, and good wing defender and scorers. We need to run. We need to shoot 3's. We need to force turnovers. What we did last season wasn't working. We forced no turnovers. We got the worst quality looks in the league. We barely shot free throws. We didn't run.

Do you think Phil caving to outside pressure and hiring Horny is a sign that he's out, and that we are going to move away from Carmelo?

I really like Robin Lopez, too, but something tells me he isn't ideal for a wide-open system. I mean, the W's make it work with Bogut and Ezili, so maybe I am wrong about that, but something tells me major changes are coming.

Whether we keep Melo or not, I am ecstatic that we aren't going to run the triangle anymore. and I am happy that this team is getting with the times. I hope Phil realized what so many of us had been saying all along: the triangle just didn't work with our personnel, and building a slow, plodding, post-up oriented team that shoots mid range j's isn't a recipe for major success.

What do you think is next for us? are we going to stick with big FA signing this summer and try to win with Melo, KP, Lopez?

IDK if Walton is down for this, but consider that LA could trade us the #2 pick for Melo.
Lakers:
Pau (signed)
Randle
Melo
Russ
Rondo(signed)

meanwhile Knicks parlay Melo into one of Freak 2.0 or Odom 2.0.

I think it is certainly a possibility that Melo is traded to LA.

If that doesn't happen, our direction is actually pretty good with RoLo/KP manning the center, Melo splitting time at 3-4 and then we sign some role players, keep our good role players, and next year make a push for that difference maker.

[RHODEY]

Or maybe our 6'6" Rondo minus the court vision?

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

Wroten is the poor man Harden minus shooting ability please.

Rondo cant shoot, yet he's a great slasher- in his prime he could get to the rim at will. Harden also a great slasher. Hence the Wroten comparison regarding that particular ASPECT of their game. It's called recognizing a player's strength. The average Knickfan here can recognize that Wroten -as of right now - isn't an Allstar player like Harden.

We're not blind,but....a trained eye can catch potential before it's actualized .If you and other posters think that's "overrating" our own players ...well have at it. IMO it's simply optimism for what could be...basically it's called being a fan.

[stopstandthere]

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

Wroten is the poor man Harden minus shooting ability please.

Rondo cant shoot, yet he's a great slasher- in his prime he could get to the rim at will. Harden also a great slasher. Hence the Wroten comparison regarding that particular ASPECT of their game. It's called recognizing a player's strength. The average Knickfan here can recognize that Wroten -as of right now - isn't an Allstar player like Harden.

We're not blind,but....a trained eye can catch potential before it's actualized .If you and other poster think that is "overrating" our own players ...well have at it. IMO it's ptimism for what could be...it's called being a fan.

Yes right, I also look forward to seeing Wroten actualize his potential and to become the player we expect him to be.

Sometimes we just say what we first thought... it is a forum, cheers.

[NY2TheBay]

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

Wroten is the poor man Harden minus shooting ability please.

Rondo cant shoot, yet he's a great slasher- in his prime he could get to the rim at will. Harden also a great slasher. Hence the Wroten comparison regarding that particular ASPECT of their game. It's called recognizing a player's strength. The average Knickfan here can recognize that Wroten -as of right now - isn't an Allstar player like Harden.

We're not blind,but....a trained eye can catch potential before it's actualized .If you and other posters think that's "overrating" our own players ...well have at it. IMO it's simply optimism for what could be...basically it's called being a fan.

Preach it, playa.

[Polk377]

Rondo minus the court vision isn't much of anything

Wroten is the poor man Harden minus shooting ability please.

Rondo cant shoot, yet he's a great slasher- in his prime he could get to the rim at will. Harden also a great slasher. Hence the Wroten comparison regarding that particular ASPECT of their game. It's called recognizing a player's strength. The average Knickfan here can recognize that Wroten -as of right now - isn't an Allstar player like Harden.

We're not blind,but....a trained eye can catch potential before it's actualized .If you and other posters think that's "overrating" our own players ...well have at it. IMO it's simply optimism for what could be...basically it's called being a fan.

I agree with your last statement wholeheartedly. We can see what he can be but it is up to him to get there. That's life.

I personally compare Wroten to Emanuel Mudiay. Both around the same size and build. Both have the same skill set and deficiencies. Same guy most people were clamoring for with the 4th pick and we got the same type of player on a low risk/high reward deal.

[Nazrmohamed]

I hate the media for this BS. We are all falling for this. Phil has never said that it is triangle and triangle only. Phil did not go after a triangle coach in the first search. He went after Kerr. Last time I checked, he was proven right on that. He did not go after Fisher as a backup option because of the triangle either. He want after him because he considered Fisher to be coach material. That turned out to be wrong. Rambis was at no point hired as a head coach. His position was interim.

Now let's come to Hornacek. This is the type of Phil move. It shows that Phil is committed to what he has said from day one. He wants a system. Hornacek is a system guy. He also has lots of qualities that Phil has. He is a student of the game,calm and collective, very knowledgeable.

Yeah, I think it's you who is falling for it. Phil has done nothing but preach triangle since he's been here, even talking about winning 11 titles and that's why the media should leave him alone.

Kerr was considered because he understands the triangle, and he's running a modified version of it in GS. The thing is he wanted more freedom to run it, alter it, deviate from it as he sees fit and knew Phil would be in his ear about is purity. In other words, let's assume 50% of the league ran triangle including Kerr. The issue for Kerr was less about running it than it was about not being on a leash with it. .....but he wouldve still had to run it.

Fisher was brought in because of his knowledge of it and was supposedly fired from deviating from its pure form, trying to make it uptempo.

The first thing Rambis said about Fisher was basically that he wasn't running the triangle correctly. Rambis since then had run the triangle, assumed he would continue and as close as 3 weeks ago was running a triangle clinic which the entire team was invited to.

Phil is and had always been about the triangle. And look, you don't have to deny it. It's a good system that Kerr had employed to a large extent in GS. Thibs ran some of it in Chicago and many coaches use elements of it. That's one of the reasons why fans liked him.

DON'T GET FOOLED INTO THINKING PHIL HASN'T UP UNTIL THIS POINT OUT THE TRIANGLE AT THE FOREFRONT.

I think what happened is that it was obvious to everyone but Phil that Rambis impending hire was ludicrous, Phil felt some pressure from the media, yes. He probably fit some internal pressure and he basically said. "You don't trust my hire then Ill look outside but my ego is such that it can't be what's obvious to everyone else, Itll be a darkhorse candidate. ....for the sake of being a darkhorse candidate"

Its a power move. I don't think it proves anything in regards to the past. Hornacek is still a relative novice. Rambis will most likely be his assistant coach, and Phil still gets to have a huge influence in what Horny does. What I might be willing to concede is that maybe Phil is finally understanding that absolute control isn't working and maybe he is coming around to other systems.

But no, I am not gonna give him credit for being open all along. He came to this realization in the last month either on his own or with influence from outside sources. Don't be fooled yourself.

Sounds like a typical New York beat writer.

Start from "Hornacek is still a relative novice" thing. What would you say about Kerr if Kerr was the hire two years ago? Exactly the same thing. Fact is Hornacek has more experience than Kerr coaching at the time we made him an offer. By the way, Kerr was not "considered". Phil made him an offer. We wanted him. He said no. Had Dolan made a better offer from the get go instead of lowballing him, he might be our coach now.

Had Phil gone after Rambis two years ago (or Shaw for that matter) instead of Kerr and then Fisher, you would have a point. He did not. He did not go after a triangle coach at any point. He went after the people he considered would be a great head coach for the Knicks. Phil, at no point in time, recruited Rambis for a HC position.

Seren, first off good debate.

But I get the idea that Rambis was not sought after as a head coach originally, he was an interim coach only in that position because Fisher got fired. As with all interim coaches thier goal is to prove themselves worthy to get the job full time. But how then do you account for the clinic we ran just 3 weeks ago, which the entire team was invited to - to reinforce the triangle.

Somebody told him to run that clinic or he proactively ran it in order to please his boss, Phil Jackson. Is it a coincidence that both Kerr and Fisher were offered/hired due to thier familiarity with the triangle? There have been plenty of system coaches available. Why those two?

I think your answer has to be because of the triangle. Now again, I don't care about the triangle and I even said we've seen coaches have success implementing it. I just don't understand why
A-we're trying to deny it
B-why only now is it optional

Also, I keep hearing Phil just wants a system coach of any kind. What system has Hornicek shown other than improvising for a small roster (which I commend, just as I commend Woodson for doing when he had us do a 2 pg small lineup). I just feel like things don't add up and the sell job is in effect.