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Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive

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Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#1 » by NYKnicksTAPE » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:26 pm

A key question that could go a long way in determining how successful the Knicks are next season, is how the alpha-dog scorers will function together on offense; particularly with budding star Kristaps Porzingis also needing touches to continue his offensive growth.

Regardless of whether the duo plays well, one thing is clear: New York will almost certainly play faster with Rose leading the offense. The shift might have taken place anyway, with new coach Jeff Hornacek and his track record with the Suns. But the addition of Rose should cement that notion. The Bulls played at the 10th-fastest pace in the league with Rose on the court, up from the equivalent of the 10th-slowest pace when he wasn’t on the court.

His ability to transform the Knicks in that way explains why Hornacek has mentioned, twice, needing Anthony to run harder following opponents’ misses. Rose was very inefficient in transition scenarios last season—with his double vision from a preseason orbital fracture likely playing a role—struggling to take care of the ball, drawing fouls or finishing at the rim.

But he was solid at finding open perimeter shooters, like Mike Dunleavy and Doug McDermott, before defenses were set. At his best, in the 2012 Olympics, and then again during the 2012 season, Anthony was a devastating trailer in transition. Committing to running the floor with Rose could earn him similar looks when opponents are a step late in identifying their fast break assignments.

When the Knicks aren’t able to get quick looks, the fit could become a bit more complicated.

While both players take a considerable amount of midrange jumpers—Anthony took an NBA-high 8.4 shots from there among qualifying players, and Rose took 5.3 attempts a night—they don’t share sweet spots, meaning their styles shouldn’t necessarily clash the way that Anthony and Jeremy Lin did at times; partly because both men favored playing from the right.

Rose was more comfortable on the left, taking about 40% of his outside jumpers from there. Anthony, by contrast, took nearly 48% of his outside jumpers from the right, per Stats LLC.

This doesn’t guarantee anything, obviously. Jimmy Butler, whose playmaking style and ascension hastened Rose’s exit in Chicago, also preferred playing from the right, yet never fit with him. There are two key differences in Anthony’s case, though. First, he’s a far superior shooter to Butler. Secondly, Anthony—though he likes to isolate—unloads the ball a bit quicker than Butler. (Anthony held it 2.97 seconds per touch last year, while Butler, as an occasional lead ballhandler, possessed it an average of 3.64 seconds, per SportVU player-tracking technology.)

Aside from his health, Rose’s ability to penetrate to and convert at the rim—particularly with the spacing he’ll get with lineups featuring Porzingis at center—will dictate how the Knicks perform on offense more than any other factor.

Rose should be a perfect running mate for a player like Anthony. He can create good looks for himself—after the All-Star break, he shot a blistering 56% when he possessed the ball for more than six seconds—and also force enough help to where teammates get open as a result. That could be a game-changer for Anthony, who’s been one of the NBA’s best 3-point shooters when left wide-open, hitting 47.1% (106-of-225) of such looks the past three seasons.

But while Rose will occasionally make the cross-court, home-run pass, and sometimes makes nifty ones while in mid-air, he doesn’t hit perimeter shooters nearly as frequently as other drive-and-kick point guards. In Chicago, Rose more commonly would drive after getting a pick, then kick the ball back to his screener—generally either Joakim Noah or Pau Gasol—at the elbow. The big man would then generally either shoot, or scan the floor for the open man, who was often beyond the arc. (It’s easy to imagine Porzingis in this facilitating role, similar to Gasol; perhaps with even more spacing.)

This explains why Rose ranked among NBA leaders in hockey assists—plays where he feeds the player who ultimately gets credited with the assist—with 1.3 per game despite owning modest assist totals in a traditional sense. Noah and Gasol assisted McDermott, Dunleavy and Nikola Mirotic more than Rose (and did so with fewer minutes than Rose had with those players, in some cases), but part of that was him making the simple play rather than the spectacular one.

Clutch situations will bring about another question for the Knicks, given Rose and Anthony’s star mentalities. Anthony used 36.2% of the Knicks’ possessions in “clutch” scenarios—when the game was separated by five points or fewer, with five minutes or less to play—while Rose used 31.7% of the Bulls’ possessions. Both ranked among the NBA’s 20 stingiest players of those who saw action in at least 30 close games last season.

Ideally, the Knicks would use the two of them together in screen-roll action—or one of them, along with Porzingis—to get defenders moving instead of settling for the stagnant, contested looks Anthony has gotten on his own in recent years.

One way or another, though, the Knicks should have real options with Rose in the fold. It’s just a matter of figuring out how to get him and Anthony working in tandem, as opposed to having the two All-Stars take turns running the offense.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-derrick-rose-and-carmelo-anthony-can-both-thrive-1468447612
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#2 » by Esq-4 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:34 pm

On paper, we have a serious starting 5. The questions are health and bench. How many times has it been said that Melo with a dominant point is an ideal combo. Add in an ultra versatile KP, ball moving defender Noah and a 3 and D guy.... should be ideal.

In reality, players have injury history and will miss games. The biggest concern is handcuffed with Jennings.

I'm excited
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#3 » by Knicksfan20 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:38 pm

Good read, but i think Melo and Rose will be just fine.

Melo needs to adjust again. For the first time in a long time, he has a player who can create offense and facilitate. Melo has to be ok with not having the ball in his hands all the time. He would be great playing off the ball with Rose handling the ball. We can cause so many mismatches and Rose/Zingis and should be able to get Melo wide open shots. Rose can Make life so easy on Melo. he will not have to work nearly as hard as he has had to in the past. But There should be a lot of 2 man game between Singer and Rose and some plays Melo just needs to create space. Porzingis and Rose are going to be so deadly in the pick and roll and pick and pop. People are very worried about Rose and his athleticism, but forget Rose is one of the best mid range PGs in the game. Him and porzingis are going to a nightmare for defenses and Melo is going to get a lot of open shots.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#4 » by 99 Knicks » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:26 am

Melos been hinting for the past couple years of wanting to play more of his Olympic role we just never had the pieces. Now we do to an extent and we can see how it works. It should be fun.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#5 » by KayCSmooth » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:59 am

Knicksfan20 wrote:Good read, but i think Melo and Rose will be just fine.

Melo needs to adjust again. For the first time in a long time, he has a player who can create offense and facilitate. Melo has to be ok with not having the ball in his hands all the time. He would be great playing off the ball with Rose handling the ball. We can cause so many mismatches and Rose/Zingis and should be able to get Melo wide open shots. Rose can Make life so easy on Melo. he will not have to work nearly as hard as he has had to in the past. But There should be a lot of 2 man game between Singer and Rose and some plays Melo just needs to create space. Porzingis and Rose are going to be so deadly in the pick and roll and pick and pop. People are very worried about Rose and his athleticism, but forget Rose is one of the best mid range PGs in the game. Him and porzingis are going to a nightmare for defenses and Melo is going to get a lot of open shots.

I totally agree! I keep watching clips of Rose & Gasol together to get an idea of how him & KP will look. With that wet jump shot of his he's going to thrive! And if Melo continues to be that efficient contributor that he was, there should be open looks all around for everyone! My only concern now is I don't want Rose or playing hefty minutes. Hope we get a 3rd PG to backup Jennings in case Rose needs a game off.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#6 » by BKlutch » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:23 am

Knicksfan20 wrote:Good read, but i think Melo and Rose will be just fine.

Melo needs to adjust again. For the first time in a long time, he has a player who can create offense and facilitate. Melo has to be ok with not having the ball in his hands all the time. He would be great playing off the ball with Rose handling the ball. We can cause so many mismatches and Rose/Zingis and should be able to get Melo wide open shots. Rose can Make life so easy on Melo. he will not have to work nearly as hard as he has had to in the past. But There should be a lot of 2 man game between Singer and Rose and some plays Melo just needs to create space. Porzingis and Rose are going to be so deadly in the pick and roll and pick and pop. People are very worried about Rose and his athleticism, but forget Rose is one of the best mid range PGs in the game. Him and porzingis are going to a nightmare for defenses and Melo is going to get a lot of open shots.

Barring injury, they will both be fine. They both have the mindset to play real team ball and want to win together. They also have Noah, who likes Melo and is here because of Rose. Throw in Porzingis, add Lee at the 2, and this team is good. I'm beginning to think we have a couple of good bench players and a few younger guys who might add the energy and scoring we need to help wear out other teams. I'm looking for a lot of D from Baker and Ndour, too. This year could be a whole lot of fun.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#7 » by JBreezeNY » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:24 am

We should officially see the beginning of Olympic Melo in the regular season.

This is the most dynamic guard he's had since Iverson it's a shame though that AI was starting to decline & Rose has injury problems but still.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#8 » by BKlutch » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:25 am

99 Knicks wrote:Melos been hinting for the past couple years of wanting to play more of his Olympic role we just never had the pieces. Now we do to an extent and we can see how it works. It should be fun.

Good observation, young fella. This is going to help Melo's game a lot.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#9 » by BKlutch » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:27 am

KayCSmooth wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:Good read, but i think Melo and Rose will be just fine.

Melo needs to adjust again. For the first time in a long time, he has a player who can create offense and facilitate. Melo has to be ok with not having the ball in his hands all the time. He would be great playing off the ball with Rose handling the ball. We can cause so many mismatches and Rose/Zingis and should be able to get Melo wide open shots. Rose can Make life so easy on Melo. he will not have to work nearly as hard as he has had to in the past. But There should be a lot of 2 man game between Singer and Rose and some plays Melo just needs to create space. Porzingis and Rose are going to be so deadly in the pick and roll and pick and pop. People are very worried about Rose and his athleticism, but forget Rose is one of the best mid range PGs in the game. Him and porzingis are going to a nightmare for defenses and Melo is going to get a lot of open shots.

I totally agree! I keep watching clips of Rose & Gasol together to get an idea of how him & KP will look. With that wet jump shot of his he's going to thrive! And if Melo continues to be that efficient contributor that he was, there should be open looks all around for everyone! My only concern now is I don't want Rose or playing hefty minutes. Hope we get a 3rd PG to backup Jennings in case Rose needs a game off.

You're going to see the Baker and the Machine at PG when Jennings starts. And you will like it, because ballboys have no other choice.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#10 » by FreakMaster » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:28 am

Good read...

If Linsanity took over NYC, just wait until Rose hits the floor. It's going to be CRAZY! Hopefully, Rose stays injury-free.

Most NBA fans outside of Chicago tend to look at Rose as a scorer like Russ Westbrook, but Rose is so much more than Russ. Rose had to adjust to the game again after basically missing 3 yrs of competitive basketball. Rose is a team 1st player. He looks to distribute, and has been that way since his Simeon H.S. days, when he was clearly the best scorer, but looked to defer to his teammates. Derrick will have no problem deferring to Melo or Porzingis, and still get his.
I wouldn't pay too much attention with last yrs Derrick Rose stats. Last season he just paced himself and didn't go all out while trying to get himself mentally, and physically back into NBA action. This season he'll go Ballz Out knowing this is a contract yr.

The Derrick Rose /Bulls marriage had to come to an end. Rose's contract and injury history was holding the Chicago Bulls in limbo trying to assemble talent around Rose while Rose stayed in rehab for 2 1/2 yrs.

Derrick Rose is one of those prime-time players who'll have his best games when the lights are brightest. NYC was a good next step for him to restore his MVP status without the pressure they've put on him in Chicago.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#11 » by Starbury316 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:53 am

Good read as usual by Herring. It's refreshing to have a guy who can actual write with facts that stimulate reasonable notions.

I think we're going to have a starting 5 that complements each other offensively and defensively. I love the fact that Rose has an off season to work on his game. Hornacek aka The PG Whisperer spoke about going out to LA to spend some time with Rose so I'm sure he's giving him the low down of how were going to play and what he wants him to work on. KP is out in LA for the Espys as well it would be cool if him and Rose linked up similiar to how we saw Noah and Melo get work in.

Man I can't wait
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#12 » by spree2kawhi » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:15 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:We should officially see the beginning of Olympic Melo in the regular season.

This is the most dynamic guard he's had since Iverson it's a shame though that AI was starting to decline & Rose has injury problems but still.

It's very interesting to see this thread next to the one about Melo not willing to play off the ball more with Lin at PG.

I think Melo rightfully was willing to play off the ball only next to very established, similar talent and was an incredible weapon that way on the Olympic squad. It was unreal. Rose is that sort of talent and hopefully remains healthy as he will also be the only such player on the roster.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#13 » by bklynstoops » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:22 pm

it's all about health this season. Don't doubt the talent and chemistry.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#14 » by Sark » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:00 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:We should officially see the beginning of Olympic Melo in the regular season.

This is the most dynamic guard he's had since Iverson it's a shame though that AI was starting to decline & Rose has injury problems but still.


Sadly Denver Iverson was better than Knicks Rose will be.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#15 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:55 pm

Good article. Interesting that Rose was one of the league leaders in hockey assists and went thru Noah often. That should be a pretty seamless transition especially when we surround those 2 with excellent spot up shooters in KP, Melo and Lee.

One thing to keep an eye on is Melo’s percentages. They have been down a bit the last 2 years, but I would expect that number to go up and for us to see a more efficient Melo. Easy to see why Melo’s percentages were down considering our PGs.

I think Hornacek is going to put everyone in good positions as well.

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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#16 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:02 pm

Iverson and Melo quibbled behind the scenes over who could handle/take the shot. As a result, Iverson was shipped to the Pistons where he drove that team into the ground and helped get Joe Dumars fired. Meanwhile Melo THRIVED with Chauncey Billups.

F#C% Allen Iverson. His abusive nature towards women off the court, makes him a scumbag. As a player, sure if you surrounded him with 4 other guys who don't need the ball and play defensively he thrives like he did with Philly for a short time when that team was taken seriously only to get manhandled in the Finals.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#17 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:12 pm

herring's stats and analysis is exemplary. hate reading these NY rags with zero basketball in them.

hockey assists are just as good in my book. they mean there was a basket. we have a lot of players who can co this. noah and KP can distribute from the pinch post. elements of the triangle will make much more sense as part of a free-flowing attack on the heels of some pressure.

if this group plays like dogs and scoundrels, it will be very successful. that's why some of our new pickups are the hounds of hell.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#18 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:23 pm

You don't NEED to worry about Rose to set every one up.

Rose by himself penetrated/drove to the basket more times than Ron Jeremy in a porn film and waaaaay more than the Knicks as a team. Only one other Knick did that, his name was Jeremy Lin.

This is going to open up the perimeter game.

Worry MORE about how many shots KP is going to get.
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#19 » by Capn'O » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:28 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:We should officially see the beginning of Olympic Melo in the regular season.


All that needed to be said. Melo regards Rose very highly.

What has not yet discussed is all the putback opportunities for Porz off of Rose drives :D
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Re: Herring: How Rose and Melo Can Both Thrive 

Post#20 » by GONYK » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:00 pm

Capn'O wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:We should officially see the beginning of Olympic Melo in the regular season.


All that needed to be said. Melo regards Rose very highly.

What has not yet discussed is all the putback opportunities for Porz off of Rose drives :D


Porzingis said it himself. He said he can't wait to clean up all of the missed Rose layups :lol:

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