Does anyone else believe Phil signed Noah with the expectation of a amnesty clause?

[LameDuck]

Let's revisit some of the rumors of moves Phil wanted to make:

Wanted Greg Monroe in FA
Would have taken Okafor over Porzingis.
Tried to trade down and pick Kaminsky.

No, I think he signed Noah because he sucks at being a GM.

[thebuzzardman]

I don't think Phil signed Noah with an amnesty clause in mind. I think he signed Noah because Noah fits the culture that Phil is trying to create for the Knicks. He'll be a good mentor to the other bigs even if he doesn't play much.

And really, it's not the end of the world. Porzingis is playing 5 times better than his contract is worth. Hernangomez will soon be doing the same. So what if Noah only plays half of what his contract is worth? The Knicks are still in a very good place. Maybe we could have gotten Noah for 15 mil instead of 18. Maybe not. I think that Phil paid the market value for Noah.

I think this is it. Phil wasn't under any illusions that Noah would be a 32 mpg for the contract. Now, it's possible he thought the first 2 years "might" be like that, but Phil likes vets who provide leadership, not unlike Harper starting but playing about 22 mpg for the Championship Bulls. Also agree that the deal will look better, maybe not great, but better, when salaries take off again.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Noah is only getting 2 million more than Mozgov. Wait until you see the salaries this off-season.

Noah's salary was never the issue...the issue is that he was given a 4 year deal that is fully guaranteed

[duetta]

Noah is only getting 2 million more than Mozgov. Wait until you see the salaries this off-season.

Noah's salary was never the issue...the issue is that he was given a 4 year deal that is fully guaranteed

Again, wait until you see the contracts given out this off-season.

Once Robin was dealt, the Knicks had to find a big man - or else the Rose trade made no sense. You couldn't simply assume that O'Quinn would finally show up and that Willy would be better than advertised.

Noah apparently had even more lucrative deals available to him (like the rumored Wizards offer).

Once Mozgov got the $16 million, the entire salary structure changed. Even if Noah ends up coming off the bench, he can contribute to this team going forward. But at least he didn't get a no trade. Big men have always been overpaid, and always will.

[Capn'O]

I don't think Phil signed Noah with an amnesty clause in mind. I think he signed Noah because Noah fits the culture that Phil is trying to create for the Knicks. He'll be a good mentor to the other bigs even if he doesn't play much.

And really, it's not the end of the world. Porzingis is playing 5 times better than his contract is worth. Hernangomez will soon be doing the same. So what if Noah only plays half of what his contract is worth? The Knicks are still in a very good place. Maybe we could have gotten Noah for 15 mil instead of 18. Maybe not. I think that Phil paid the market value for Noah.

I agree that the vocal leadership and mentorship for Kyle, KP, and Billy were major factors. As you mention, the whole bigs corps will reasonably compensated even with Noah's salary. Year 4 it becomes a problem because you have to pay KP, Billy, and/or Kyle at that time. I think we'll need to move him before then. It will be possible as there are plenty of bad contracts that have recently been signed that may fit better. But obviously not a great return.

[blueNorange]

The contract isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be especially when the cap jumps up again and continues to push over 100 mill. The length is bad but Noah at < 20 percent of your cap (which is what it will be once the cap jumps again) isn't bad at all and people are overreacting because they need something to be mad at.

lolwut

it's a bad contract for a guy who physically can't play big minutes and back to backs.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Noah is only getting 2 million more than Mozgov. Wait until you see the salaries this off-season.

Noah's salary was never the issue...the issue is that he was given a 4 year deal that is fully guaranteed

Again, wait until you see the contracts given out this off-season.

Once Robin was dealt, the Knicks had to find a big man - or else the Rose trade made no sense. You couldn't simply assume that O'Quinn would finally show up and that Willy would be better than advertised.

Noah apparently had even more lucrative deals available to him (like the rumored Wizards offer).

Once Mozgov got the $16 million, the entire salary structure changed. Even if Noah ends up coming off the bench, he can contribute to this team going forward. But at least he didn't get a no trade. Big men have always been overpaid, and always will.

You're talking about his salary and comparing him to Mozgov, but I'm saying that his salary or whether or not he's overpaid isn't the issue...the issue is that his contract is 4 years and fully guaranteed and Noah will probably be completely done halfway through the deal. To me, he might as well have a NTC because I doubt many teams are lining up to trade for that contract.

[Ville5]

You're talking about his salary and comparing him to Mozgov, but I'm saying that his salary or whether or not he's overpaid isn't the issue...the issue is that his contract is 4 years and fully guaranteed and Noah will probably be completely done halfway through the deal. To me, he might as well have a NTC because I doubt many teams are lining up to trade for that contract.

You're borrowing trouble. If we could find a taker for Calderon, anything is possible.

[duetta]

You're talking about his salary and comparing him to Mozgov, but I'm saying that his salary or whether or not he's overpaid isn't the issue...the issue is that his contract is 4 years and fully guaranteed and Noah will probably be completely done halfway through the deal. To me, he might as well have a NTC because I doubt many teams are lining up to trade for that contract.

And what I'm saying is that he was getting 4 guaranteed years in this crazy market regardless.

It's like the Anthony no-trade that people whine about endlessly. He was getting whatever he wanted to re-up.

Elite and semi-elite free agents get to write their own ticket. We can debate whether Noah still belonged in that category, but the bottom line is that in this market, he was one of the better available big men. You don't trade for Rose on a expiring contract, and then look to sign a bargain basement big man.

[Dantares]

I dont think he is overpaid or underpaid. If he can give us 24mpg and defense and energy and leadership i will be fine with him. I really feel like he should be guarding guys on the perimeter and kp should be the one protecting the paint. I dont know why hornacek hasnt made that adjustment yet.

[AmazingJason]

The contract isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be especially when the cap jumps up again and continues to push over 100 mill. The length is bad but Noah at < 20 percent of your cap (which is what it will be once the cap jumps again) isn't bad at all and people are overreacting because they need something to be mad at.

lolwut

it's a bad contract for a guy who physically can't play big minutes and back to backs.

Not only that, but he gives you nothing on the offensive end. We play 4-on-5 when he's out there. And for the first time in forever, we have to deal with Hack-a-Player bullsh*t.

[blueNorange]

boy i bet the 9-5 bulls love having a young center in rolo over joakim 'will he crack 30 minutes' noah

[whocares1]

boy i bet the 9-5 bulls love having a young center in rolo over joakim 'will he crack 30 minutes' noah

He is just Robin Lopez. At the end of the day..he's just Robin Lopez.

[blueNorange]

boy i bet the 9-5 bulls love having a young center in rolo over joakim 'will he crack 30 minutes' noah

He is just Robin Lopez. At the end of the day..he's just Robin Lopez.

a more productive player than noah, who at the end of the day is a guy on his last legs.

[Dantares]

I just looked at our salaries.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/

we got Willy locked up for 4 years/6 million guaranteed. I no longer care if Joakim is slightly overpaid, because I am 100% confident Willy will be ridiculously underpaid. haha what a deal. Let's say Willy does take over the starting job next year I believe Joakim will still contribute 20-25 minutes off the bench and outplay back-up bigs. I ain't even sweating this deal.

[Clyde Frazier]

Phil really likes Noah on a personal level and his intangibles. I think he genuinely just shot his load on dude. Lol. In any case banking on an amnesty clause is not very smart and should never be used as an excuse. Never.

This is pretty much it. Phil didn't care that he's on the downside of his career and one of the most injury prone guys in the league. He liked him and his playing philosophy and decided to give him a ton of money.

[Adelheid]

Phil really likes Noah on a personal level and his intangibles. I think he genuinely just shot his load on dude. Lol. In any case banking on an amnesty clause is not very smart and should never be used as an excuse. Never.

[GONYK]

I just looked at our salaries.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/

we got Willy locked up for 4 years/6 million guaranteed. I no longer care if Joakim is slightly overpaid, because I am 100% confident Willy will be ridiculously underpaid. haha what a deal. Let's say Willy does take over the starting job next year I believe Joakim will still contribute 20-25 minutes off the bench and outplay back-up bigs. I ain't even sweating this deal.

Yea, Noah's deal isn't really that good, but the money spent on the rotation at the 5 spot as a whole is pretty great.

[HarthorneWingo]

The Bucks, Timberwolves and Wizards were all in the hunt for Noah too, with the Wiz preparing to offer him a max contract.

Another reason to bringing him in was that we thought that he and Rose would already have some chemistry together that they would bring to the starting line-up. While this does appear to be an overpay (1) there's still very early in the season and Jo is still in the process of getting back to peak basketball shape; and (2) the cap will be going up again with the next CBA so it won't look as bad in coming years. In any event, I like the combination of the four centers we have. They give us A LOT of depth at that position.

I like the players we have on this team. I just think we need more time to jell.

[Mike Breen]

Noah's contract is pretty bad, but he's not holding the team back. Players like Rose are the players who truly hold a franchise back. Players like Rose give the illusion that they have skill, but in reality are the very definition of empty stats. Rose does just enough fancy crossovers no-look passes to convince people that he doesn't suck.