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Watching Phil's Watch

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Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#1 » by Bill Pidto » Wed Dec 7, 2016 6:27 am

For those of you who remember the Donnie's Watch thread, here's a chance to re-evaluate Phil a little bit. I think being tied for 3rd place almost exactly 1/4 of the way through the season is a good time to do so. I just want to run down the list of players the Knicks have that they can hold onto for the future and win with now. And after I list such players, we should praise Phil a little bit, because he's done a damn good job..

KP - obviously the greatest piece Phil has acquired, and sure, he had some luck on his side with this pick, but he did have the balls to tank, and he had the balls to select Porzingis. KP's value to the Knicks has no dollar amount. Phil will go down as a Knicks legend just for drafting him.
Willy - Awesome draft pick. Clearly a 2nd round steal at this point. Phil/Gaines get major props for adding Willy, and if it weren't for KP, Knicks fans would be fawning over him like we fawned over Lee/Chandler/Gallo/Shump.
KOQ - He's beginning to make Phil look like a genius for that contract. He's a young-ish talent, an all-around big, and a useful building block. He's becoming a fan favorite. Bravo.
Kuz - 27 year old rook, plays like a vet, plays like he knows the game and loves the game, and he's a great fit with the team. Kuz is a steal. Another piece.
Holiday - He's another young-ish, cheap player who has real value and is also a great fit with the team. Also does a little bit of everything. Also a guy worth holding onto.
Lee - One of the Knicks' larger contracts but still a good value and at the very least, could be a solid trade chip should the Knicks go in another direction and either look to cut salary or look to upgrade the roster at some point. For now, he's a good fit and a reliable player.
Baker and Plumlee - these are guys who fans on this board know have something to offer, although it may take a while before people can heap too much praise on Phil for signing them. But those are another 2 potential young pieces. Maybe never super valuable on the trade market, but valuable to a young-ish developing team trying to build a culture.

And then there's Melo - if Melo keeps playing winning basketball, I could care less about the NTC. Knicks can get a lot of production out of Melo for the remainder of his contract, and if they continue to develop the young guys, the team can only get better around him. Melo is a huge piece to the puzzle. As long as the Knicks are winning games , Phil gets props for holding onto him and putting such a team around him.

With Rose and Jennings on one year deals, for now, Noah is the Knicks' only major risk. And how major is it really? When the cap rises again next season, if Noah's deal becomes the equivalent of 8 or 9 million bucks before the cap went up at all... the Knicks can certainly work around that. Of course, there's something positive he brings to the team even when he can't play, and so I'll never really be mad at the Noah deal. He's good to have in NY even though we fans can't always witness his impact.

So with that being said, at this juncture, I give Phil an A.. but of course I'm not as hard to please as some. You have to respect the job he's done to bring in young talent though. I think it was well worth some of the recent heartache, and I thought it should be highlighted again. It's been a while since we've been able to hype this roster.

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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#2 » by whocares1 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 6:40 am

You certainly love Phil I can see that much lol.

Overall he gets a B, but to be honest the team isn't playing the way he wants it to, and he acquired players he normally wouldn't have if it weren't for pressure by fans/media.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#3 » by taikibansei » Wed Dec 7, 2016 7:05 am

whocares1 wrote:You certainly love Phil I can see that much lol.

Overall he gets a B, but to be honest the team isn't playing the way he wants it to, and he acquired players he normally wouldn't have if it weren't for pressure by fans/media.


:roll:

Yeah, that Phil...always bowing to pressure from the fans/media. If only the guy would learn to take a stand on things and start thinking for himself.....

Just to help me understand, which of our players did Phil acquire/retain due to "fan and media pressure"? Was it that Melo dude (who many here have wanted gone for years)? Was it Noah (aka "the worst contract of the summer")? Was it Rose--you know, the guy people have been calling "washed up," "low basketball IQ," (and even a rapist), etc., in multiple threads throughout the RealGM boards since the Knicks traded for him? Was it O'Quinn, the guy who until recently people here wanted to trade for 2nd round picks? Was it Jennings...or should that be ennings? KP, the choice of whom made some fans literally cry and some media personalities (Berman and Smith) scoff? Don't even suggest that it was Kuz and Willy....

Basically, a number of us (including myself) have been wrong about a lot regarding this team. Given this, quite frankly, I'm glad Phil doesn't give a **** about us and what we think.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#4 » by Futureisnow » Wed Dec 7, 2016 12:20 pm

Some of his early moves were kinda perplexing and constantly mandating the triangle was really annoying, but in year three of five, I'm happy with this team as is. And it's nice to have a person in charge who cares about keeping draft picks.

Edit: Mistakenly thought it was year four of Phil's deal. :banghead:
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#5 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Dec 7, 2016 12:33 pm

Phil has been far from perfect, but so far his mistakes have been fixable, he has not traded any first round picks (he picked up 1, and is in the plus in 2nd round picks) and we have a unicorn.

A lot still rides on the results this year, but just need to look at the before and after roster as well as future picks to see he has done a good job with what he had to work with.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#6 » by Greenie » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:19 pm

Futureisnow wrote:Some of his early moves were kinda perplexing and constantly mandating the triangle was really annoying, but in year four of five, I'm happy with this team as is. And it's nice to have a person in charge who cares about keeping draft picks.

This is year 3...
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#7 » by JXL » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:31 pm

He's been pretty average. His only home run is drafting KP.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#8 » by Bill Pidto » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:43 pm

Greenie wrote:
Futureisnow wrote:Some of his early moves were kinda perplexing and constantly mandating the triangle was really annoying, but in year four of five, I'm happy with this team as is. And it's nice to have a person in charge who cares about keeping draft picks.

This is year 3...
Wow


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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#9 » by Futureisnow » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:43 pm

Greenie wrote:
Futureisnow wrote:Some of his early moves were kinda perplexing and constantly mandating the triangle was really annoying, but in year four of five, I'm happy with this team as is. And it's nice to have a person in charge who cares about keeping draft picks.

This is year 3...
Wow


My fault. Feels like he's been here longer than that.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#10 » by NYKAL » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:45 pm

whocares1 wrote:You certainly love Phil I can see that much lol.

Overall he gets a B, but to be honest the team isn't playing the way he wants it to, and he acquired players he normally wouldn't have if it weren't for pressure by fans/media.


ASSUMPTIONS posted as fact. lmao

he may have accelerated the process just a bit but, Phil has never bowed to pressure from the media or fans. He likely wouldn't have accelerated things if he didn't think he could do it without mortgaging the teams future which, still looks very bright.

As for the players, there isn't a single player on the teams that comes across as a non-phil player. He obviously knew better than us when he singed O'Quin to the deal he did. Has always been good dealing with euro-players and has brought in good players with high character.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#11 » by shtolky » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:55 pm

JXL wrote:He's been pretty average. His only home run is drafting KP.



These two things contradict each other in my opinion. If KP was the ONLY good move Phil made over the past few years, he would still get an A simply because of the KP pick, and I don't think KP has been the only good move, the OP outlined his other very solid moves. He also gets an A in my book for the moves he hasn't made. How quickly we forget a time not too long ago when first round picks and cap space were these non-existent concepts for us. Now we have an abundance of both. Sometimes restraint can be just as powerful as aggression. Oh, and he drafted KP.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#12 » by Jay10 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:56 pm

Gaines = Kristaps
Mills = Willy
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#13 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:58 pm

Very big offseason coming up for Phil. It would be very easy to lock in to a treadmill-ish 3-5 seed this offseason. He has to draft and trade smart from here on out. No need to make major moves unless they're very low risk (like signing CP3) because clearly this team can compete. Maybe package one of the bigs and the Chicago pick to try and move up in the draft. If the MLE goes up to say 10 million sign a younger 3 and D wing or maybe take a risk on Tyreke Evans if his value continues to plummet the way it has with the injuries
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#14 » by whocares1 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:59 pm

NYKAL wrote:
whocares1 wrote:You certainly love Phil I can see that much lol.

Overall he gets a B, but to be honest the team isn't playing the way he wants it to, and he acquired players he normally wouldn't have if it weren't for pressure by fans/media.


ASSUMPTIONS posted as fact. lmao

he may have accelerated the process just a bit but, Phil has never bowed to pressure from the media or fans. He likely wouldn't have accelerated things if he didn't think he could do it without mortgaging the teams future which, still looks very bright.

As for the players, there isn't a single player on the teams that comes across as a non-phil player. He obviously knew better than us when he singed O'Quin to the deal he did. Has always been good dealing with euro-players and has brought in good players with high character.


Derrick Rose is not a triangle lead guard
Jeff Hornacek is not a triangle coach
Brandon Jennings is not a triangle guard
Knicks are reportedly playing less triangle this season than the past two seasons per Begley.

The team is not being used the way Phil Jackson envisioned, and to argue the contrary is rather silly. I give Phil Jackson props for giving up and letting the team play the way they can excel at, but the players forced him to. I just don't understand why Phil needs to be protected by some of you. This thread was perfectly created after a winning streak.

taikibansei wrote: Blah


Read above
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#15 » by Bill Pidto » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:00 pm

To add to Phil's resume, Rose and Jennings look well-worth the gamble for one year. Both guys are completely recovered from injuries, both guys give the team a chance to compete at a high level, both guys make life easier for Melo and KP, and that chemistry should only improve over the rest of the season.

Speaking of chemistry, Hornacek is starting to look like a great hire. Who can say anything bad about that guy right now? Bravo again, Phillip.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#16 » by JXL » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:07 pm

shtolky wrote:
JXL wrote:He's been pretty average. His only home run is drafting KP.



These two things contradict each other in my opinion. If KP was the ONLY good move Phil made over the past few years, he would still get an A simply because of the KP pick, and I don't think KP has been the only good move, the OP outlined his other very solid moves. He also gets an A in my book for the moves he hasn't made. How quickly we forget a time not too long ago when first round picks and cap space were these non-existent concepts for us. Now we have an abundance of both. Sometimes restraint can be just as powerful as aggression. Oh, and he drafted KP.


So trading Tyson Chandler and Felton for scraps and 2 2nd round picks was a solid move? You can argue he didn't trade any picks away, but other than that his tenure as President is very average, with KP being his jewel.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#17 » by GONYK » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:08 pm

whocares1 wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
whocares1 wrote:You certainly love Phil I can see that much lol.

Overall he gets a B, but to be honest the team isn't playing the way he wants it to, and he acquired players he normally wouldn't have if it weren't for pressure by fans/media.


ASSUMPTIONS posted as fact. lmao

he may have accelerated the process just a bit but, Phil has never bowed to pressure from the media or fans. He likely wouldn't have accelerated things if he didn't think he could do it without mortgaging the teams future which, still looks very bright.

As for the players, there isn't a single player on the teams that comes across as a non-phil player. He obviously knew better than us when he singed O'Quin to the deal he did. Has always been good dealing with euro-players and has brought in good players with high character.


Derrick Rose is not a triangle lead guard
Jeff Hornacek is not a triangle coach
Brandon Jennings is not a triangle guard
Knicks are reportedly playing less triangle this season than the past two seasons per Begley.

The team is not being used the way Phil Jackson envisioned, and to argue the contrary is rather silly. I give Phil Jackson props for giving up and letting the team play the way they can excel at, but the players forced him to. I just don't understand why Phil needs to be protected by some of you. This thread was perfectly created after a winning streak.

taikibansei wrote: Blah


Read above


The players are not the fans/media.

Also, what is a "Triangle guard"? Because Phil himself, said the perfect Triangle player is Steph Curry. He also admitted that he was considering making a play for Conley, and I don't think he's turning down a shot at Chris Paul if one opens up.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#18 » by mpharris36 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:14 pm

Futureisnow wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Futureisnow wrote:Some of his early moves were kinda perplexing and constantly mandating the triangle was really annoying, but in year four of five, I'm happy with this team as is. And it's nice to have a person in charge who cares about keeping draft picks.

This is year 3...
Wow


My fault. Feels like he's been here longer than that.


3 years to totally revamp a horrible roster with terrible contracts and very limited assets and draft picks.

In three years we are competitive with a strong future. Was every move he made successful? No, but he has had a plan and stuck by it not panicking or deviating from the overall plan to build a sustainable winner here.
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#19 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:14 pm

Jay10 wrote:Gaines = Kristaps
Mills = Willy


And who put those 2 in place to make those evaluations?
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Re: Watching Phil's Watch 

Post#20 » by Jay10 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 3:16 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Jay10 wrote:Gaines = Kristaps
Mills = Willy


And who put those 2 in place to make those evaluations?


Saying it was Gaines that noticed Willy is incorrect, when it was actually Mills.

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