Discussion Topic: Bench KP?

[thebuzzardman]

I wouldn't debate this all that much. KP is going to be spending a lot of time on the "bench" whether we like it or not

[gavran]

Rim protection doesn't equal two-way.
If that's the case then Tyson Chandler was two-way since he could finish ally-oop dunks...

Nobody would ever take away the fact that KP is a swat machine on defense. The rest of his defense needs MAJOR work.

Yeah, defense and offense doesn't equal a two way player. That criterion is reserved only for everyone else. God, this logic.

I think I get what she's saying.

If my defense is sus but I can block shots does that mean I play good defense or I can block shots?

Wouldn't make him a two way player in that regard.

Me personally I think his defense has been good enough to be considered a two way player BUT he's been so up & down on that end this year I wouldn't be mad if someone like Greenie disagreed but she has a point.

Her point is irrelevant, when she is wrong. The whole purpose of defense is making your opponent miss shots, and around the rim, Porzingis is terrific. People shoot 40% around the rim when he is defending them, which is the best in the league (or it was a month ago, don't have up-to-date data). That is by definition playing good defense. He doesn't have to be elite in all chategories to be good overall.

[ChaosHamster]

Agreed. I'm glad I'm not the only one here who rides his dick. I like him, but he needs a lot of work still. Anytime I've been critical, I'm no longer a Knicks fan, according to some

I do think most of his problem is his intelligence on the court, as he often doesn't make the best defensive decisions. A lot of that comes with experience though.

He still needs a lot of work, I don't think anyone is denying that.. (And I agree his major issue is intelligence on defense atm, not his physical capabilities, as someone tried to argue that he is too slow..)

He is a two-way player. I don't know, perhaps for some definition of a two-way player is - you have to be elite on the both sides of the court..

KP is definitely above average on offense and defense.

It was probably me. He is, against certain players. He frequently gets burned by those hybrid 3/4s. A typical PF and center he's fine against on defense. But he is not fast enough to keep up with guys like Jeff green. He has shown in the games he cant keep up with them. Maybe one day he will

I mean, I don't know what games you are watching, but this is definitely not true.

Even if he gets burned, and that doesn't happen often, Its mostly because he was out of position in the first place, and pluss, because of his enormous length, he often can still bother the shot from behind.

[ChaosHamster]

Yeah, defense and offense doesn't equal a two way player. That criterion is reserved only for everyone else. God, this logic.

I think I get what she's saying.

If my defense is sus but I can block shots does that mean I play good defense or I can block shots?

Wouldn't make him a two way player in that regard.

Me personally I think his defense has been good enough to be considered a two way player BUT he's been so up & down on that end this year I wouldn't be mad if someone like Greenie disagreed but she has a point.

Her point is irrelevant, when she is wrong. The whole purpose of defense is making your opponent miss shots, and around the rim, Porzingis is terrific. People shoot 40% around the rim when he is defending them, which is the best in the league (or it was a month ago, don't have up-to-date data). That is by definition playing good defense. He doesn't have to be elite in all chategories to be good overall.

2nd atm: http://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/#!?CF=DEF_RIM_FGA*G*5&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=-1

[Greenie]

Yeah, lets just bench franchises only hope for the future, because other players will benefit from it.

Melo can't play his main position anymore, lets help him by benching KP.

Kuz needs more minutes? Bench KP.

Rose and Melo need to get their shots - bench KP.

Ball movement argument I guess, is based on famous Greene`s, "I DON'T NEED STATS FOR ANYTHING, I HAVE EYES!".. So yeah..

The only reason I can understand, is his health concerns, some people already got into that. (man, and I thought I was a negative person.. geesh), but as others mentioned, you can manage his minutes easily without benching him..

Greenie doesn't want to bench him though...

Wow.

[IllmaticHandler]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player yet. he needs a little more seasoning on that end to me.

[Greenie]

Rim protection doesn't equal two-way.
If that's the case then Tyson Chandler was two-way since he could finish ally-oop dunks...

Nobody would ever take away the fact that KP is a swat machine on defense. The rest of his defense needs MAJOR work.

Yeah, defense and offense doesn't equal a two way player. That criterion is reserved only for everyone else. God, this logic.

I think I get what she's saying.

If my defense is sus but I can block shots does that mean I play good defense or I can block shots?

Wouldn't make him a two way player in that regard.

Me personally I think his defense has been good enough to be considered a two way player BUT he's been so up & down on that end this year I wouldn't be mad if someone like Greenie disagreed but she has a point.

This

[Greenie]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player yet. he needs a little more seasoning on that end to me.

All I'm trying to say.

[god shammgod]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

[NBA Fan 1234]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

[Greenie]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

I actually think he would be solid guarding 5's.

[Greenie]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

At the rim he is. He, like everyone else on this team struggles with defensive rotations on the perimeter.

He needs to be in a position where he doesn't have to worry about all of that and guys funnel players into the paint towards him. Like we did with Tyson.

I think people are overstating this whole strengh thing. Gobert is a starting C. Bruisers are gone.

[Red Vines]

It's the players around him (except for Lee) who are too limited.

[NBA Fan 1234]

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

At the rim he is. He, like everyone else on this team struggles with defensive rotations on the perimeter.

He needs to be in a position where he doesn't have to worry about all of that and guys funnel players into the paint towards him. Like we did with Tyson.

I think people are overstating this whole strengh thing. Gobert is a starting C. Bruisers are gone.

Oh, I completely agree. I think he can absolutely handle himself against the vast majority of centers in the NBA. For the few games he shouldn't start at C because he's going against Cousins, start Noah, G, or KOQ.

[god shammgod]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

i don't disagree. and i think some of our individual defense being terrible is partially schematic. i can't imagine that every player on the team sags that much off their guy on the perimeter without being told to do it. we just don't prioritize stopping shooters.

[GONYK]

Yeah, defense and offense doesn't equal a two way player. That criterion is reserved only for everyone else. God, this logic.

I think I get what she's saying.

If my defense is sus but I can block shots does that mean I play good defense or I can block shots?

Wouldn't make him a two way player in that regard.

Me personally I think his defense has been good enough to be considered a two way player BUT he's been so up & down on that end this year I wouldn't be mad if someone like Greenie disagreed but she has a point.

This

People used to try and make the argument that David Lee is a good defender because he's a good rebounder, and getting rebounds caps a defensive sequence

[NBA Fan 1234]

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

i don't disagree. and i think some of our individual defense being terrible is partially schematic. i can't imagine that every player on the team sags that much off their guy on the perimeter without being told to do it. we just don't prioritize stopping shooters.

We never have.

Honestly, I doubt we spend more than a couple of minutes each practice on defense. Some of the mistakes are just pathetic.

[IllmaticHandler]

When I think of a Two Way Player its mostly because they can lock their man down. There are players who are good at steals, but cant stop their man like that. I think of them more of Ball Hawks than being able to contain some one. Whiteside can swat the hell out of Shots, but his individual defense is suspect. KP is not a pure bum on defense, but I don't think of him as full blwon two way player only cause of his rim protection.

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

And games can be lost on Individual Defense as well. Its why the truly good defense players Do BOTH well. Golden State had Good team defense last year, but Curry could not do **** with Kyrie. Did not even slow him down.

[Juco24]

KP can guard Cs? The same KP that got out muscled by Taj Gibson the first time we played Chicago.... come on guys. Him @ C for extended periods would hurt him immeasurably at this point in his career. Maybe in a couple years

[NBA Fan 1234]

right now, people seem to feel he can't guard either the 4 or 5 well. he's an amazing help defender. but if there isn't even a position you think he can guard, it's hard to say he's a great individual defender.

Like you said, he's an amazing help (team) defender. Team defense is significantly more important throughout the entire game than individual defense.

And games can be lost on Individual Defense as well. Its why the truly good defense players Do BOTH well. Golden State had Good team defense last year, but Curry could not do **** with Kyrie. Did not even slow him down.

Sure, but KP isn't a bad individual defender. I wouldn't say he's average either - he's solid. Yeah, he makes mistakes guarding the perimeter, but it's not like the rest of the team is doing a great job...which leads me to think that it's the coaches simply not teaching how to defend the perimeter correctly (aka, at all) rather than an individual issue.

Solid individual defense + elite team defense is a good defensive player. Few defenders are perfect...and those guys are the ones who win DPOY, which KP probably won't IMO.