moocow007 wrote:Knicks93 wrote:Isiah Thomas would have traded all our picks for some over rated guy leaving us with no future while tanking. Phil tried to win around Melo since we didn't have our picks 2 of the past 3 years because of the prior GM's, didn't work. No big deal. He'll focus on rebuilding around KP now and we will be fine. Tank the next couple years, get top picks, Noah contract will expire, and we'll be set.
It is almost insulting to compare Phil to Isiah also btw. What did you expect Phil to do? We had a crap team and no picks, not like we could focus on tanking the past 3 seasons when we had no picks. He took risks and it didn't work out. Not like any top free agents wanted to sign here into this mess when Phil took over the job. And you expected him to build a contender in those circumstances? Just because he is Phil? You expected too much
?????
Phil has had 3 years to turn around this roster. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER except Anthony are his players so the "what other GM'S did" argument is just an excuse (that oddly we didn't give any of the other GM'S or front office heads). And yet Anthony is CLEARLY still the best and, more troubling, most consistently productive player. Heck I can easily argue that Carmelo Anthony also IS his player since Jackson was the one that not only didn't trade him when he may have been able to get value, but then not only resigned him but then took one step further into idiocy by giving Anthony that head scratching no trade clause.
He insists on forcing the Triangle on a team that is not built for it (even though he built it lol) and hires head coaches that can't or don't want to coach it. Then on top of that the style that the coach wants to coach doesn't fit the players on the team. The resulting "mess" is basically a 3 way cluster **** and why the team gets embarrassed on most nights and are performing worse than the talent would seem to dictate (hint teams with talent that don't fit the system or each other was also a calling card of Isiah Thomas team building skills).
Us having our picks have what to do with trying to win with Anthony (which BTW is also Phil Jackson's fault)??? If he was trying to win with Anthony then what would keeping draft picks help in that endeavor? Nor the fact that he should have realized from the start that Anthony wasn't a fit for what he wanted to try to do (which....BTW...was CLEARLY CLEARLY NOT to rebuild even though common sense should have dictated a rebuild from day 1).
And since it's clear that his master plan was not to rebuild (i.e, not trading early on and the resigning Anthony with that NTC, then blowing his wad on Noah) how some of you guys are now somehow trying to paint the draft and Porzingis as Jackson's:"mastermind" plan is just sheer and utter mind boggling . What Jackson has shown is that he has no experience as a front office person, no solid grasp on what he wants to do (compared to reality) nor, more importantly, how to go about executing whatever waffling plan he has in his peyote muddled mind.
Doesn't matter what he did in his past life, how many rings he won as a head coach cause none of that matters for the position he has. If he was hired to be the head coach, great. But he wasn't. He's out of his element and over his head here as top front office guy. If Dolan was trying to build the team to follow the champion Bulls model he should have hired Jerry Krause as the top decision maker instead. If Dolan wanted to build per the championship Lakers then he should have figured out a way to get Jerry West here. Now if Dolan wanted with championship coaching experience to be the coach (AFTER whichever experienced front office person have already built the foundation of the team)...then Jackson would have been a great choice,
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Will all due respect Mod, you are vastly wrong.
It is so easy to come in here and insult a legendary basket-ball mind like Phil Jackson, yet much harder to understand how this franchise works from within.
The Knicks are #1 franchise on Forbes, they play in the Mecca of basket-ball that is Madison Square Garden, do you expect them to be hiring some assistant with no experience, and no track record as a decision maker ? Scott Layden again?
Yes it does matter what Phil did in his past life, are you crazy? Phil was hired based on his resumé like most employees in any business are. Jerry Krause ? I think you were just joking here.
Dolan took advice from Irving Azoff and hired Ph... - hey maybe that's where we should stop this.
Irving Azoff is a legendary manager in the music business (The Eagles...) and businessman (dude orchestrated the Live Nation/Ticketmaster merger years ago) who would also provide Dolan's band with some support slots on some of The Eagles shows. Azoff is therefore one of Dolan's closest friends. But if he the right person to follow on basket-ball?
Phil was the easy hire to do. Any fan could have given the same advice to Dolan. Phil had won two rings with the Knicks as player, and eleven as coach in others bigs markets such as Chicago and Los Angeles, where the pressure from fanbase and media are heavy.
The NBA world was seeing another legendary coach (Pat Riley) win rings in Miami as an executive, it was easy to imagine and hope Phil could duplicate the same kind of success.
Except that Phil is not Riley, and more importantly the Knicks are not the Heat.
The Heat were a small franchise with need of a basket-ball mind to build their own history and results.
They would get Riley complete full autonomy to make the Heat relevant.
Does Phil has the full autonomy that you make it seem he has had ?
He was hired as President, but Dolan kept Steve Mills who was hired months prior, in the very next office as general manager.
Maybe you can help me out here, but I still don't understand what Phil is allowed to do and what Steve does.
When you think of the Knicks, you should not forget, and indeed value, the competition between TMSGC and AEG, which is so tough, in various businesses, venues, sports and live music. Dolan knows **** about basket-ball, but he's all about business, and knows how to protect his interests and competitors.
Just my two cents here.
I think when Dolan hired Phil, he asked him to be the legitimate face of the franchise as he was bringing instant credibility to a basket-ball program, who could help them re-sign Carmelo, who was on the way out, looking forward to free-agency.
I think Phil's lone mistake, was to accept that mission, while he shoulda just said "if you want me part of your organization, I need Full Autonomy on the roster, capital F, capital A".
Maybe SAS is right, and after he declined the job in 2012, maybe Phil just took the job for money, but you can't blame on Phil the willingness to build around Carmelo, which is all Dolan since day 1 and Donnie Walsh was in the office.
Since Melo is and has always been about working out his brand in NY, this led to the Knicks collapsing in the negotiations and surrendering with an NTC. Melo's reps played the cards perfect.
Dolan/Azoff/MSGE just didn't want Melo to move his talents and businesses to AEG's Lakers in Los Angeles. And now they pay the price for the second time after they surrendered half the team already to Denver, in order to avoid the Nets to trade for Melo in the AEG operated Barclays Center.
They pay the price because they pay for a team that is priced like a contender, but that is too selfish in the starting lineup to compete on its own. And it all starts with who they chose to build that team around. Melo is just not good enough to be the #1 guy of a contender, and now he's aging. He's not LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, etc. He just doesn't belong to that level of greatness.
And that is the organisation #1 mistake, to treat him as he's on that level.
If this was Phil's move, you would think Dolan would be mad at him right now, but no he isn't and Phil will be allowed to rebuild without Melo. Jackson would tell the media in 2012 already that
Carmelo has to be a better passer. And the ball can’t stop every time it hits his hands.
See
https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/jackson-says-he-would-not-have-wanted-to-coach-flawed-knicks/Contrary to what you've been foolishly stating, in three years, Phil did manage to acquire one better player to build around than Melo, and that is Kristaps Porzingis.
Even NBA 2k17 would agree today. Size, offense, defense, good personality, KP is the whole package. With time, his ball IQ will improve. It did massively already since his days in Sevilla. The guy has the talent to win more rings than Dirk.
Melo hasn't proved he could lead this team to the play-off again, and following a collection of bad losses, Phil can now move him and talk to teams.
But he still has to get over that NTC that's part of his contract, and he's got to deal with an angry Melo who's doing whatever it takes to stay in NY and keep his business running.
You and Melo can whine all you want on Phil, but the guy is here long term. He just left Jeanie and doesn't trade 1st round picks.
When he traded for D-Rose, he took him for only one year. One year to make Melo happy, and to make Dolan happy with good ticket sales and tv ratings. But we can see this leads the team to nowhere. Because you don't build a winning team around Carmelo in this league.
Carmelo used to blame losses on supporting cast. He has not been able to sing that song this year. Phil can just wait the season to end and get prepared for the draft, cause unlike Isiah or Dolan, he doesn't trade his 1st round pick.
Everybody can expect Dolan/Mills to want to retain Rose in free agency, but don't expect Phil to do so, unless he doesn't have better options and the deal remains short term.
The draft will dictate Phil's plan and how he can operate in free-agency.
Expect Melo to be traded on draft day. Where ? the play-offs will tell.
New-York Knicks fan since 1998, based in Paris, FR.
