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2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition

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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#341 » by koogiking » Mon Mar 6, 2017 7:09 pm

I feel like Derrick Rose is going to be back here next season. Knicks are going to sign him to a one year deal.

He wants to be here, and we don't have much better options.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#342 » by dakomish23 » Tue Mar 7, 2017 5:12 pm

The B/R top 3 targets for the Knicks. They couldn't help but take shots at DRose :lol:

New York Knicks
21 of 31

Nathaniel S. Butler/Getty Images
1. Jrue Holiday

2. Joe Ingles (restricted)

3. George Hill



Would the Holiday brothers consider holding their family get-together in New York? Who knows, but the odds of a Big Apple bro-out exponentially increase if Jrue turned a blind eye to the James Dolan-Charles Oakley and Carmelo Anthony-Phil Jackson soap operas.

League sources told ESPN.com’s Ian Begley that “some in the Knicks organization view Holiday as a target in free agency this summer.” This is an encouraging sign, if only because it suggests team president Phil Jackson won’t blow the team’s $20-plus million in cap space on Derrick Rose.

Holiday is a borderline All-Star when healthy. He’s best when given the freedom to drive, but he fits the triangle offense insofar as he can play off the ball.

Joe Ingles is a great Plan B, with the potential to segue into Plan A. Not a single one of the Knicks’ wings are plus-contributors on defense, and he leads all of the Jazz’s perimeter pests in points saved, according to NBA Math.

George Hill will command close to max money and, at 31, could be fool’s gold by the end of his next deal. But the Knicks need a keen passer with three-point range and a defensive conscience. Hill is all those things—so, everything Rose is not
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#343 » by melo mvp 15 » Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:35 pm

dakomish23 wrote:The B/R top 3 targets for the Knicks. They couldn't help but take shots at DRose :lol:

New York Knicks
21 of 31

Nathaniel S. Butler/Getty Images
1. Jrue Holiday

2. Joe Ingles (restricted)

3. George Hill



Would the Holiday brothers consider holding their family get-together in New York? Who knows, but the odds of a Big Apple bro-out exponentially increase if Jrue turned a blind eye to the James Dolan-Charles Oakley and Carmelo Anthony-Phil Jackson soap operas.

League sources told ESPN.com’s Ian Begley that “some in the Knicks organization view Holiday as a target in free agency this summer.” This is an encouraging sign, if only because it suggests team president Phil Jackson won’t blow the team’s $20-plus million in cap space on Derrick Rose.

Holiday is a borderline All-Star when healthy. He’s best when given the freedom to drive, but he fits the triangle offense insofar as he can play off the ball.

Joe Ingles is a great Plan B, with the potential to segue into Plan A. Not a single one of the Knicks’ wings are plus-contributors on defense, and he leads all of the Jazz’s perimeter pests in points saved, according to NBA Math.

George Hill will command close to max money and, at 31, could be fool’s gold by the end of his next deal. But the Knicks need a keen passer with three-point range and a defensive conscience. Hill is all those things—so, everything Rose is not


Holiday would be great, but I find it highly unlikely we get him. Especially because if the biggest motivator is Justin being here because Justin is also a FA and I don't think we have his bird rights (we might have early bird rights? I'm not sure)- so I don't think we can even afford Jrue at $20+ mil and Justin at the $5-8 mil he'll command. I also just think it's so unlikely Jrue leaves New Orleans after they've finally made the move that can push them to a top team. Plus, Justin fills a serious need for New Orleans, so I could see them re-signing Jrue and then signing Justin with the MLE. It's also far from guaranteed that Justin and Jrue play together- just because they're brothers and they were quoted saying they want to play together means it'll happen. I'm sure if Justin gets a big offer somewhere, they'd understand if he didn't play with Jrue to get it.

I would also add that it could be argued that Jrue could be a big gamble. He's going to command $20+ mil/year for 4 years and has had serious injury problems for the past few yeas. I'm not saying he shouldn't be our top FA target, he should be- he's one of the few PGs who fits both an uptempo Hornacek offense or the triangle- aka whatever happens in the next year or two, he should be a piece here. You could also argue that while we should want to keep Justin, he's probably going to command a decent contract and I don't know if that we can allocate so much of our cap space to him. It all depends on what else happens. But right now, we have Melo, Lee, Kuz, and Lance already locked up on the wings (plus options on Randle and Baker). The good news is our front court is already solid and shouldn't require any off-season moves unless we move O'Quinn for an asset because with Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn, and Noah (plus Lance/ Melo as small ball 4s), so all of our off-season moves should be to improve our backcourt. But we need to address the PG position more than anything. It doesn't mean we need to spend all of our cap on one, but we need to prioritize it. Hopefully, we can get a good back up young PG in the draft and sign a youngish/ in his prime PG to start (assuming we don't get a top 3 pick).

Ingles would be nice, but again, I'd make sure the PG spot is taken care of first. And George Hill might the perfect triangle PG, but I don't want any part of the huge contract he'll command this summer. He's a solid starting PG who is having a great year, but I don't trust him to match that play for much longer. If he wasn't going to command $20 mil/year, I'd like him- but he's going to get paid. I'd rather gamble on Jrue. And if we can't get Jrue, but can get Hill for a huge contract, I'd consider a lot of other options first (like trading for Rubio with capsace or a Rose sign and trade).
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#344 » by dakomish23 » Tue Mar 7, 2017 10:55 pm

melo mvp 15 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:The B/R top 3 targets for the Knicks. They couldn't help but take shots at DRose :lol:

New York Knicks
21 of 31

Nathaniel S. Butler/Getty Images
1. Jrue Holiday

2. Joe Ingles (restricted)

3. George Hill



Would the Holiday brothers consider holding their family get-together in New York? Who knows, but the odds of a Big Apple bro-out exponentially increase if Jrue turned a blind eye to the James Dolan-Charles Oakley and Carmelo Anthony-Phil Jackson soap operas.

League sources told ESPN.com’s Ian Begley that “some in the Knicks organization view Holiday as a target in free agency this summer.” This is an encouraging sign, if only because it suggests team president Phil Jackson won’t blow the team’s $20-plus million in cap space on Derrick Rose.

Holiday is a borderline All-Star when healthy. He’s best when given the freedom to drive, but he fits the triangle offense insofar as he can play off the ball.

Joe Ingles is a great Plan B, with the potential to segue into Plan A. Not a single one of the Knicks’ wings are plus-contributors on defense, and he leads all of the Jazz’s perimeter pests in points saved, according to NBA Math.

George Hill will command close to max money and, at 31, could be fool’s gold by the end of his next deal. But the Knicks need a keen passer with three-point range and a defensive conscience. Hill is all those things—so, everything Rose is not


Holiday would be great, but I find it highly unlikely we get him. Especially because if the biggest motivator is Justin being here because Justin is also a FA and I don't think we have his bird rights (we might have early bird rights? I'm not sure)- so I don't think we can even afford Jrue at $20+ mil and Justin at the $5-8 mil he'll command. I also just think it's so unlikely Jrue leaves New Orleans after they've finally made the move that can push them to a top team. Plus, Justin fills a serious need for New Orleans, so I could see them re-signing Jrue and then signing Justin with the MLE. It's also far from guaranteed that Justin and Jrue play together- just because they're brothers and they were quoted saying they want to play together means it'll happen. I'm sure if Justin gets a big offer somewhere, they'd understand if he didn't play with Jrue to get it.

I would also add that it could be argued that Jrue could be a big gamble. He's going to command $20+ mil/year for 4 years and has had serious injury problems for the past few yeas. I'm not saying he shouldn't be our top FA target, he should be- he's one of the few PGs who fits both an uptempo Hornacek offense or the triangle- aka whatever happens in the next year or two, he should be a piece here. You could also argue that while we should want to keep Justin, he's probably going to command a decent contract and I don't know if that we can allocate so much of our cap space to him. It all depends on what else happens. But right now, we have Melo, Lee, Kuz, and Lance already locked up on the wings (plus options on Randle and Baker). The good news is our front court is already solid and shouldn't require any off-season moves unless we move O'Quinn for an asset because with Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn, and Noah (plus Lance/ Melo as small ball 4s), so all of our off-season moves should be to improve our backcourt. But we need to address the PG position more than anything. It doesn't mean we need to spend all of our cap on one, but we need to prioritize it. Hopefully, we can get a good back up young PG in the draft and sign a youngish/ in his prime PG to start (assuming we don't get a top 3 pick).

Ingles would be nice, but again, I'd make sure the PG spot is taken care of first. And George Hill might the perfect triangle PG, but I don't want any part of the huge contract he'll command this summer. He's a solid starting PG who is having a great year, but I don't trust him to match that play for much longer. If he wasn't going to command $20 mil/year, I'd like him- but he's going to get paid. I'd rather gamble on Jrue. And if we can't get Jrue, but can get Hill for a huge contract, I'd consider a lot of other options first (like trading for Rubio with capsace or a Rose sign and trade).


Not sure about the rules under the new CBA. but under the old one you could go over the cap to bring back an early bird FA. That's how we kept LFT. So as long as Justin doesn't get some exorbitant offer, we might be ok to bring him
back.

On Jrue, he's a great fit. He does a lot of what we all hope and expect from a PG. Can run an offense without having to be the offense. Check. A solid defender at the point of attack. Check. Good shooter. Check. Good PnR facilitator. Check. I just think once we blew a huge portion of our cap space on Noah and LFT, we screwed ourselves pretty bad. You sign Jrue and you're locked into this core the next few seasons. Should be a playoff team with relatively good health, but the upside is strictly tied to the growth of your young guys. Very little flexibility IMO.

Also of course depends on how this draft turns out. If we finally (FINALLY!!!!!) address the backcourt with a top 10 pick, maybe it will be worth it. Also obviously depends on if Melo sticks around. If he's a goner, there is zero incentive to get a player in his prime now. Would much rather keep whatever powder we have dry and/or use it to really build up the asset base for the future. Nothing id love more than to have extra picks coming our way as the young guys start their ascent. Really put us in a position of strength for once.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#345 » by koogiking » Thu Mar 9, 2017 7:58 pm

Is it just me or is George Hill highly overrated ?
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#346 » by basketboule » Thu Mar 9, 2017 8:24 pm

koogiking wrote:Is it just me or is George Hill highly overrated ?


He really isn't. He's aging though.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#347 » by digitaldropoff » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:00 pm

I don't see the Knicks going after Holiday or Hill, those guys alone would take almost every dime of your remaining cap, while it's obvious that the Knicks have several holes to fill.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#348 » by Meat » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:34 pm

digitaldropoff wrote:I don't see the Knicks going after Holiday or Hill, those guys alone would take almost every dime of your remaining cap, while it's obvious that the Knicks have several holes to fill.

and none of them will come from free agency, they should all come from the draft\next year's draft
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#349 » by Knickstape1214 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:45 pm

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knicks85 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Have you ever seen Nurkic play? If you think he's worth that little, I'd bet against it.

Yeah he's fat slow and inconsistent...Full disclosure I live in Colorado...very late first ...which is what I stated...you have him for a year with a cheap contract at which pt he becomes a restricted and will earn way more than any rookie...so yes early second at worst late first at best...


Fair enough. I've watched a bunch of him because I like Jokic, and I think Nurkic is easily worth a first.


Safe to say I was right? He's been KILLING it since being traded.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#350 » by knicks85 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
knicks85 wrote:Yeah he's fat slow and inconsistent...Full disclosure I live in Colorado...very late first ...which is what I stated...you have him for a year with a cheap contract at which pt he becomes a restricted and will earn way more than any rookie...so yes early second at worst late first at best...


Fair enough. I've watched a bunch of him because I like Jokic, and I think Nurkic is easily worth a first.


Safe to say I was right? He's been KILLING it since being traded.

small sample size...if you remove the 2 games he went berserk hes been very average..
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#351 » by Knickstape1214 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:54 pm

knicks85 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
Fair enough. I've watched a bunch of him because I like Jokic, and I think Nurkic is easily worth a first.


Safe to say I was right? He's been KILLING it since being traded.

small sample size...if you remove the 2 games he went berserk hes been very average..

:-?

I'll check back with you at the end of the season. :lol:
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#352 » by digitaldropoff » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:08 pm

Meat wrote:
digitaldropoff wrote:I don't see the Knicks going after Holiday or Hill, those guys alone would take almost every dime of your remaining cap, while it's obvious that the Knicks have several holes to fill.

and none of them will come from free agency, they should all come from the draft\next year's draft


Well yeah, but you'll have to spend most of that 20ish million. The key is to not make another Noah like signing. A team can work around one of those non performing deals in a perfect world.....landing two of those, and you're sunk for at least three years.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#353 » by spree8 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:34 pm

Melo to LAL for Ingram, Deng, Mozgov


Opens up cap room for LA to offer max deals to both PG & Westbrook next summer (2018) and gives us the #2 pick from last draft.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#354 » by Knickstape1214 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:39 pm

spree8 wrote:Melo to LAL for Ingram, Deng, Mozgov


Opens up cap room for LA to offer max deals to both PG & Westbrook next summer (2018) and gives us the #2 pick from last draft.


If we're taking two **** contracts off their hands (without giving them any of our garbage), I'm asking for a first round pick in addition to Ingram (or Russ).
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#355 » by spree8 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:46 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
spree8 wrote:Melo to LAL for Ingram, Deng, Mozgov


Opens up cap room for LA to offer max deals to both PG & Westbrook next summer (2018) and gives us the #2 pick from last draft.


If we're taking two **** contracts off their hands (without giving them any of our garbage), I'm asking for a first round pick in addition to Ingram (or Russ).



Yea if I'm Phil, I definitely ask for more, but I dunno if Magic or Rob Lowe does it. The original deal is what I'd settle for if they didn't wanna add anything else.

Figured we won't really be using that cap space for anything else anyway since we've only been able to get the likes of Afflalo, Noah, Jennings, and Derrick Williams since Phil's been here.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#356 » by Knickstape1214 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:49 pm

spree8 wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
spree8 wrote:Melo to LAL for Ingram, Deng, Mozgov


Opens up cap room for LA to offer max deals to both PG & Westbrook next summer (2018) and gives us the #2 pick from last draft.


If we're taking two **** contracts off their hands (without giving them any of our garbage), I'm asking for a first round pick in addition to Ingram (or Russ).



Yea if I'm Phil, I definitely ask for more, but I dunno if Magic or Rob Lowe does it. The original deal is what I'd settle for if they didn't wanna add anything else.

Figured we won't really be using that cap space for anything else anyway since we've only been able to get the likes of Afflalo, Noah, Jennings, and Derrick Williams since Phil's been here.


I think the Lakers would include a pick if they get rid of those deals - mainly because Pelinka still says LA has appeal and probably thinks that they can sign FAs (for example, Paul George apparently has his sights set on LA). You're right we have no need for cap space at the moment, but remaining flexible should always be in the back of our heads - at the very least, we should do what Philly did and simply accumulate picks while taking on bad deals.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#357 » by eagle54 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:20 pm

They refused to include Ingram in a trade for DMC, so you think they could trade him for Melo ?
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#358 » by spree8 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:40 pm

eagle54 wrote:They refused to include Ingram in a trade for DMC, so you think they could trade him for Melo ?



Mitch and Jim refused...not Magic and Rob. I think I heard too that the whole Laker organization was split on doing it until the last minute. Plus, they weren't getting rid of both Deng and Mozgov in the deal...34 million dollars per year tied up in useless players.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#359 » by eagle54 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Lakers will probably try to land George, not Melo... They have a Young team too, timing for melo isn't good for us too.
Or they trade all their Young player for melo and another star... However it's a really non sence and horrible move.
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Re: 2017 FA/Trade Wishing Well - 5 Card Stud Edition 

Post#360 » by spree8 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:55 pm

eagle54 wrote:Lakers will probably try to land George, not Melo... They have a Young team too, timing for melo isn't good for us too.
Or they trade all their Young player for melo and another star... However it's a really non sence and horrible move.



If they did this move, they'd have enough money to offer both PG and Westbrook max contracts next summer...even if Melo (also able to opt out in 2018) decided to stay. They'd have the potential to put out...

Westbrook/ (Ball?/Fultz?)
DRussell/Clarkson
PGeorge (JJax?)
(Melo)/JRandle/Nance
TBlack/Zubac

Would be kinda dumb to trade a bunch of those players/picks for PG when there's a good chance he'll go there for free as a FA next summer.
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