Porzingis Unicorn #3 Thread

[OrangeAndFlu]

Porzingis' skillset is perfect for today's game, like Towns, Turner or Jokic. But his ceiling is higher than other big men, and that's the reason for the Knicks should clean the house and create an environment of a good team, with good ball's movement and chemistry. He doesn't need to play hero ball, or play lottery ball every year looking for a change that not will come (Cousins or A. Davis have the talent, but his organizations are failing to them). He needs a good organization, sometime the Knicks doesn't have right now. Clean the house, hire the right people to the front office and staff (I like Hornacek, I believe he could be a good coach with good elements around him).

The potential is there, but the organization needs to help to develop it. Otherwise his ceiling only will be a nostalgic thought like Sampson's (similar skillset) or Webber's (multiple all-star but could be a legend).

Why is his ceiling so high? Why is it higher than Towns or Jokic, who have shown the ability to put pieces together of advanced offensive games, while KP struggles to with nearly all facets outside of hitting open 3's and coming off screens to hit open mid range jumpers? Every 10 games or so he flashes a crossover, hits a dream shake or makes nice running hooks around the basket, or even "gasp", a play where he's posting up and for whatever reason isn't bodied away (like 99% of the other times) and he makes a nice fundamental bankshot. It's year 2 and he's shown no greater inclination or ability to make those moves than year 1. I'm not sure I can totally buy the "ceiling is higher than everyone" argument as readily anymore.

Well its higher than Jokic because Jokic will only be an average defender unless he transforms his body completely and offensively his mind is already amazing and so are his skills. Not much room for improvement just conditioning (I mean Bird didn't improve tons after his rookie year). Now Jokic is already top 30 level so saying he won't improve much isn't bad.

Towns on the other hand just doesn't look like he'll ever be a good defender and he doesn't want to be. Its painful watching him on that end.

KP is the best natural defender of the 3, and offensively he's easily the most raw but he's also the softest which is a big negative. Potential wise I'd put him under Towns but well over Jokic.

KP is a **** defender as well don't let those help defense blocks fool you

He has very little inclination to keep his man in front of him he's content to let his guy get by him because he thinks he can block the shot, but ends up getting a foul called. He's got piss poor principles and can't get into a stance to save his life.

Sometimes when he's just standing under the basket he just puts his hands up and contests a shot well. That's about the extent of his defense

Could he get better ? Yes. As of right now ? No

[magnumt]

He banged his knee on Dec 22nd and hasn't been the same since. You know that contributed to the achilles injury too. I hope he's not holding something back from the Drs or that they are letting play through something. Add to that this whole Melo mess and the atmosphere that is getting more and more toxic, if not on a personal level on a basketball level, and it's no wonder things are falling apart for everybody.

Better hope that's the reason. On a negative note, one injury and the guys game falls apart isn't a great sign either. Everyone else in the NBA plays nagging injury free?

I worry sometimes about the intelligence of our "fanbase."

--Mags

[thebuzzardman]

He banged his knee on Dec 22nd and hasn't been the same since. You know that contributed to the achilles injury too. I hope he's not holding something back from the Drs or that they are letting play through something. Add to that this whole Melo mess and the atmosphere that is getting more and more toxic, if not on a personal level on a basketball level, and it's no wonder things are falling apart for everybody.

Better hope that's the reason. On a negative note, one injury and the guys game falls apart isn't a great sign either. Everyone else in the NBA plays nagging injury free?

I worry sometimes about the intelligence of our "fanbase."

--Mags

All the dumb sh*t that circulates on here and this one gets to you?

[magnumt]

Better hope that's the reason. On a negative note, one injury and the guys game falls apart isn't a great sign either. Everyone else in the NBA plays nagging injury free?

I worry sometimes about the intelligence of our "fanbase."

--Mags

All the dumb sh*t that circulates on here and this one gets to you?

It's a cumulative effect.

Our fanbase sometimes says the stupidest things.

--Mags

[thebuzzardman]

Why is his ceiling so high? Why is it higher than Towns or Jokic, who have shown the ability to put pieces together of advanced offensive games, while KP struggles to with nearly all facets outside of hitting open 3's and coming off screens to hit open mid range jumpers? Every 10 games or so he flashes a crossover, hits a dream shake or makes nice running hooks around the basket, or even "gasp", a play where he's posting up and for whatever reason isn't bodied away (like 99% of the other times) and he makes a nice fundamental bankshot. It's year 2 and he's shown no greater inclination or ability to make those moves than year 1. I'm not sure I can totally buy the "ceiling is higher than everyone" argument as readily anymore.

Well its higher than Jokic because Jokic will only be an average defender unless he transforms his body completely and offensively his mind is already amazing and so are his skills. Not much room for improvement just conditioning (I mean Bird didn't improve tons after his rookie year). Now Jokic is already top 30 level so saying he won't improve much isn't bad.

Towns on the other hand just doesn't look like he'll ever be a good defender and he doesn't want to be. Its painful watching him on that end.

KP is the best natural defender of the 3, and offensively he's easily the most raw but he's also the softest which is a big negative. Potential wise I'd put him under Towns but well over Jokic.

KP is a **** defender as well don't let those help defense blocks fool you

He has very little inclination to keep his man in front of him he's content to let his guy get by him because he thinks he can block the shot, but ends up getting a foul called. He's got piss poor principles and can't get into a stance to save his life.

Sometimes when he's just standing under the basket he just puts his hands up and contests a shot well. That's about the extent of his defense

Could he get better ? Yes. As of right now ? No

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

[Dr. Detfink]

It's time to start thinking about who the Knicks NEED to pair with Porzingis in the draft.

[OrangeAndFlu]

Well its higher than Jokic because Jokic will only be an average defender unless he transforms his body completely and offensively his mind is already amazing and so are his skills. Not much room for improvement just conditioning (I mean Bird didn't improve tons after his rookie year). Now Jokic is already top 30 level so saying he won't improve much isn't bad.

Towns on the other hand just doesn't look like he'll ever be a good defender and he doesn't want to be. Its painful watching him on that end.

KP is the best natural defender of the 3, and offensively he's easily the most raw but he's also the softest which is a big negative. Potential wise I'd put him under Towns but well over Jokic.

KP is a **** defender as well don't let those help defense blocks fool you

He has very little inclination to keep his man in front of him he's content to let his guy get by him because he thinks he can block the shot, but ends up getting a foul called. He's got piss poor principles and can't get into a stance to save his life.

Sometimes when he's just standing under the basket he just puts his hands up and contests a shot well. That's about the extent of his defense

Could he get better ? Yes. As of right now ? No

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

You said exactly what I said but with a positive inflection

[NoStatsGuy]

if we only had thibs. porzingis would already be great at D.

the unicorn lookin like a mule these days. im so sad when i watch KAT

[Knicksfan20]

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

Imma have to disagree with you on this part. I watch KP very closely on defense and IMO he has regressed ALOT. He is falling for every pump fake imaginable, He cant keep people in front of him, ump and under move gets him every time, he isn't strong enough to take body contact from bigs or from guards, he is not boxing out or attacking the glass and rarely does he go straight up to contest a shot.


Drives me crazy to see Porzingis close out and go for the pump fake every time...For fk sakes...youre 7'3.....just put your hands up.

Last year I saw a complete different player in Porzingis on the defensive side of the ball. He hustled, fought for rebounds, was blocking and contesting the rim well....Now he just picks up a few blocks here and there while fouling out and giving up free points.

He needs to get in the film room ASAP

[ChaosHamster]

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

Imma have to disagree with you on this part. I watch KP very closely on defense and IMO he has regressed ALOT. He is falling for every pump fake imaginable, He cant keep people in front of him, ump and under move gets him every time, he isn't strong enough to take body contact from bigs or from guards, he is not boxing out or attacking the glass and rarely does he go straight up to contest a shot.


Drives me crazy to see Porzingis close out and go for the pump fake every time...For fk sakes...youre 7'3.....just put your hands up.

Last year I saw a complete different player in Porzingis on the defensive side of the ball. He hustled, fought for rebounds, was blocking and contesting the rim well....Now he just picks up a few blocks here and there while fouling out and giving up free points.

He needs to get in the film room ASAP

You forgot stretch fours go off on him EVERY TIME!!!

[ChilledAlex]

KP is falling apart, so is the team. His jumper is awful this season, he shoots with force not with motion, his shots are flat almost DRosesque. He has lost all his confidence and has lost most of the trust fanbase had in him because of his utterly poor performance on both ends. He said he isn't soft - shooting his broken ass jumper when not in balance while lane is open for a dunk is the first sign of a softie. Only thing he had going before(his wet jumper) is gone and he has nothing else to show... NOTHING. And not to mention ball-watching on D and constantly losing his man after first 5 seconds of opposing offense. Some might say it's due to the team in general being trash, well he is one of the biggest facets of Knicks doing poorly.

And to those who constantly protect him from any criticism must finally admit that he is not "proving people wrong on skinny soft euro stereotype" because thats exactly who he is... AND WITHOUT A RELIABLE JUMPER.

[ChaosHamster]

I agree, that's exactly who he is.

The player we are seeing right now.

He will stay like that forever!

We are doomed!

[thebuzzardman]

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

Imma have to disagree with you on this part. I watch KP very closely on defense and IMO he has regressed ALOT. He is falling for every pump fake imaginable, He cant keep people in front of him, ump and under move gets him every time, he isn't strong enough to take body contact from bigs or from guards, he is not boxing out or attacking the glass and rarely does he go straight up to contest a shot.


Drives me crazy to see Porzingis close out and go for the pump fake every time...For fk sakes...youre 7'3.....just put your hands up.

Last year I saw a complete different player in Porzingis on the defensive side of the ball. He hustled, fought for rebounds, was blocking and contesting the rim well....Now he just picks up a few blocks here and there while fouling out and giving up free points.

He needs to get in the film room ASAP

Ok. I've seen him play straight up often enough near the rim. He goes for pump fakes away from it a lot though.

[Knicksfan20]

Hmm. I've been picking the nits on KP's game, but his D looks pretty solid to me, more so if you factor in the learning curve most young bigs go through. As a matter of fact, he sort of looked better on D last year, but at this point, I'm chalking it up to regressing a bit due to Rambis' "tutelage" and that same coaches horrible scheme that puts KP more in positions to fail than succeed.

While not everything KP does in fundamentally sound (reaches too often and ticky tack fouls, goes for pump fakes a bit too much), he's pretty good a positioning himself and going straight up to contest shots, stuff that young bigs tend to pick up later than sooner.

Imma have to disagree with you on this part. I watch KP very closely on defense and IMO he has regressed ALOT. He is falling for every pump fake imaginable, He cant keep people in front of him, ump and under move gets him every time, he isn't strong enough to take body contact from bigs or from guards, he is not boxing out or attacking the glass and rarely does he go straight up to contest a shot.


Drives me crazy to see Porzingis close out and go for the pump fake every time...For fk sakes...youre 7'3.....just put your hands up.

Last year I saw a complete different player in Porzingis on the defensive side of the ball. He hustled, fought for rebounds, was blocking and contesting the rim well....Now he just picks up a few blocks here and there while fouling out and giving up free points.

He needs to get in the film room ASAP

Ok. I've seen him play straight up often enough near the rim. He goes for pump fakes away from it a lot though.

A lot of the times at the rim he doesnt even need to go straight up. Just stand tall and put your hands up and then block out for the rebound. He is always out of position for rebounds and either doesnt read the ball right or is pure lazy when it comes to rebounding. He watches the ball instead of going to get it. I think part has to do with stamina, the other has to do with lazyness/ignorance to rebounding.


I hope him and Hernangomez live together during the summer. Porzingis could use his post moves and learn how to guard the post. Also Hernangomez can learn how to shoot better maybe.

[DOT]

KP is falling apart, so is the team. His jumper is awful this season, he shoots with force not with motion, his shots are flat almost DRosesque. He has lost all his confidence and has lost most of the trust fanbase had in him because of his utterly poor performance on both ends. He said he isn't soft - shooting his broken ass jumper when not in balance while lane is open for a dunk is the first sign of a softie. Only thing he had going before(his wet jumper) is gone and he has nothing else to show... NOTHING. And not to mention ball-watching on D and constantly losing his man after first 5 seconds of opposing offense. Some might say it's due to the team in general being trash, well he is one of the biggest facets of Knicks doing poorly.

And to those who constantly protect him from any criticism must finally admit that he is not "proving people wrong on skinny soft euro stereotype" because thats exactly who he is... AND WITHOUT A RELIABLE JUMPER.

|Season|Age|Tm|Lg|Pos|G|GS|MP|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|3P%|2P|2PA|2P%|eFG%|
|2015-16|20|NYK|NBA|PF|72|72|28.4|5.2|12.3|.421|1.1|3.4|.333|4.1|8.9|.454|.467|
|2016-17|21|NYK|NBA|PF|45|44|33.1|6.7|15.0|.448|1.8|4.9|.374|4.9|10.1|.485|.510|

[ChilledAlex]

KP is falling apart, so is the team. His jumper is awful this season, he shoots with force not with motion, his shots are flat almost DRosesque. He has lost all his confidence and has lost most of the trust fanbase had in him because of his utterly poor performance on both ends. He said he isn't soft - shooting his broken ass jumper when not in balance while lane is open for a dunk is the first sign of a softie. Only thing he had going before(his wet jumper) is gone and he has nothing else to show... NOTHING. And not to mention ball-watching on D and constantly losing his man after first 5 seconds of opposing offense. Some might say it's due to the team in general being trash, well he is one of the biggest facets of Knicks doing poorly.

And to those who constantly protect him from any criticism must finally admit that he is not "proving people wrong on skinny soft euro stereotype" because thats exactly who he is... AND WITHOUT A RELIABLE JUMPER.

|Season|Age|Tm|Lg|Pos|G|GS|MP|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|3P%|2P|2PA|2P%|eFG%|
|2015-16|20|NYK|NBA|PF|72|72|28.4|5.2|12.3|.421|1.1|3.4|.333|4.1|8.9|.454|.467|
|2016-17|21|NYK|NBA|PF|45|44|33.1|6.7|15.0|.448|1.8|4.9|.374|4.9|10.1|.485|.510|

Sum up some stats for past 2 months and you should understand what I meant. Or enlighten me and tell me where I indicated that he has never had a jumper

[King of Canada]

Seems like KP, Hahn, and Big Al agree with what I've been saying

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/02/07/knicks-in-search-of-answers-after-defeat-vs-lakers/

But there is a bigger problem that has emerged and can no longer be ignored. Porzingis took a deep breath during his postgame address last night before opting to go there when he talked about “not being involved” in the offense early in games.

As he said it, Al Trautwig and I looked right at each other with raised eyebrows.

Whoa.

Kristaps Porzingis attempts to find the answer for the Knicks' struggles and speaks on their effort after the Lakers beat New York at The Garden.
Knicks Downed by Lakers

The numbers don’t lie. Early in the season, KP was getting almost 16 shots a game. Over the last three weeks, he’s getting just 12 a game. That doesn’t seem like a big drop, but it is when you are lost in the offense.

Porzingis wasn’t done there. When talking about the team’s problems, especially with poor starts, he said, “It’s kind of everybody for themselves a lot of times; both ends of the floor.”

The NBA has a lot of players who thrive in isolation basketball and the Knicks have two in Melo and Derrick Rose. But what we’ve learned about Porzingis — as we know about a lot of European players — is he is not someone who thrives in one-on-one basketball. He is most effective with motion and ball movement.

He admitted he was “more involved” in the fourth quarter, which is why his numbers improved later in the game. Porzingis has a comfort zone with Willy Hernangomez in the frontcourt and the Euros seem to thrive with Brandon Jennings‘ up-tempo style.

[Side beard]

KP is falling apart, so is the team. His jumper is awful this season, he shoots with force not with motion, his shots are flat almost DRosesque. He has lost all his confidence and has lost most of the trust fanbase had in him because of his utterly poor performance on both ends. He said he isn't soft - shooting his broken ass jumper when not in balance while lane is open for a dunk is the first sign of a softie. Only thing he had going before(his wet jumper) is gone and he has nothing else to show... NOTHING. And not to mention ball-watching on D and constantly losing his man after first 5 seconds of opposing offense. Some might say it's due to the team in general being trash, well he is one of the biggest facets of Knicks doing poorly.

And to those who constantly protect him from any criticism must finally admit that he is not "proving people wrong on skinny soft euro stereotype" because thats exactly who he is... AND WITHOUT A RELIABLE JUMPER.

|Season|Age|Tm|Lg|Pos|G|GS|MP|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|3P%|2P|2PA|2P%|eFG%|
|2015-16|20|NYK|NBA|PF|72|72|28.4|5.2|12.3|.421|1.1|3.4|.333|4.1|8.9|.454|.467|
|2016-17|21|NYK|NBA|PF|45|44|33.1|6.7|15.0|.448|1.8|4.9|.374|4.9|10.1|.485|.510|

Sum up some stats for past 2 months and you should understand what I meant. Or enlighten me and tell me where I indicated that he has never had a jumper

Chill brah, youve spent too much time on these forums and been talking nonsense for a while now.

[ChilledAlex]

|Season|Age|Tm|Lg|Pos|G|GS|MP|FG|FGA|FG%|3P|3PA|3P%|2P|2PA|2P%|eFG%|
|2015-16|20|NYK|NBA|PF|72|72|28.4|5.2|12.3|.421|1.1|3.4|.333|4.1|8.9|.454|.467|
|2016-17|21|NYK|NBA|PF|45|44|33.1|6.7|15.0|.448|1.8|4.9|.374|4.9|10.1|.485|.510|

Sum up some stats for past 2 months and you should understand what I meant. Or enlighten me and tell me where I indicated that he has never had a jumper

Chill brah, youve spent too much time on these forums and been talking nonsense for a while now.

Feel free to prove me wrong until then you have no ground to tell me that i'm talking nonsense

[thebuzzardman]

Seems like KP, Hahn, and Big Al agree with what I've been saying

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/02/07/knicks-in-search-of-answers-after-defeat-vs-lakers/

But there is a bigger problem that has emerged and can no longer be ignored. Porzingis took a deep breath during his postgame address last night before opting to go there when he talked about “not being involved” in the offense early in games.

As he said it, Al Trautwig and I looked right at each other with raised eyebrows.

Whoa.

Kristaps Porzingis attempts to find the answer for the Knicks' struggles and speaks on their effort after the Lakers beat New York at The Garden.
Knicks Downed by Lakers

The numbers don’t lie. Early in the season, KP was getting almost 16 shots a game. Over the last three weeks, he’s getting just 12 a game. That doesn’t seem like a big drop, but it is when you are lost in the offense.

Porzingis wasn’t done there. When talking about the team’s problems, especially with poor starts, he said, “It’s kind of everybody for themselves a lot of times; both ends of the floor.”

The NBA has a lot of players who thrive in isolation basketball and the Knicks have two in Melo and Derrick Rose. But what we’ve learned about Porzingis — as we know about a lot of European players — is he is not someone who thrives in one-on-one basketball. He is most effective with motion and ball movement.

He admitted he was “more involved” in the fourth quarter, which is why his numbers improved later in the game. Porzingis has a comfort zone with Willy Hernangomez in the frontcourt and the Euros seem to thrive with Brandon Jennings‘ up-tempo style.

And the conclusion of the official mouthpiece of the Knicks organization?

KP to the bench and LFT to start.

Get ready, it's coming.