Brian Windhorst; Knicks Can Also Opt Out of Phil's 24 Million Owed Contract

[Jay10]

People choosing Melo over Phil is laughable

Choosing someone who actually cares about their job over somebody who doesn't, is bad?

You think a person that was drafted by the Knicks, won championships with the Knicks, and makes it his business to have former teammates around the young guys wants the Knicks to fail?

[Knicks_Fan2]

I want Hinkie

Not when draft time rolls around

Jah was a bad pick (controversy whether that was even his picks) but what other picks were poor at the time made? Found some decent players in the latter parts of the first and early second as well.

[Knicks_Fan2]

I want Hinkie

I don't. After this yr's top 5 pick, we only need one more bad yr at most.

The flaw in understanding Hinkie is thinking all he wants to do is tank at all times.

[Capn'O]

I want Hinkie

I don't. After this yr's top 5 pick, we only need one more bad yr at most.

The flaw in understanding Hinkie is thinking all he wants to do is tank at all times.

And not seeing the other pieces he amassed. I have my concerns with him putting everything back together but he's a terrific demolition artist.

That said - it's a option with a 0% chance of happening.

[Greenie]

It's pretty sad that people simultaneously are hoping Dolan will let Jackson go and then are expecting that same Dolan to hire wisely. Especially since no one here really has a good option in mind.
You know if Dolan and Phil decide to part ways it just means Mills is the man in charge, right?

New boss, same as the old boss.

I want Hinkie.

the man with the worst track record in current basketball?

all he did was make his team terrible, trade good players and keep sucking until the NBA stepped in and forced him out

Perfect for a multi year tank

[GONYK]

I don't. After this yr's top 5 pick, we only need one more bad yr at most.

The flaw in understanding Hinkie is thinking all he wants to do is tank at all times.

And not seeing the other pieces he amassed. I have my concerns with him putting everything back together but he's a terrific demolition artist.

That said - it's a option with a 0% chance of happening.

Why is that a "flaw in understanding"? All the man did was tank.

He ignored team needs in every trade and every draft. He amassed talent, and then had to let it go for pennies on the dollar due to glut.

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

[Capn'O]

The flaw in understanding Hinkie is thinking all he wants to do is tank at all times.

And not seeing the other pieces he amassed. I have my concerns with him putting everything back together but he's a terrific demolition artist.

That said - it's a option with a 0% chance of happening.

Why is that a "flaw in understanding"? All the man did was tank.

He ignored team needs in every trade and every draft. He amassed talent, and then had to let it go for pennies on the dollar due to glut.

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

And look what Colangelo has to work with. They've got a shot at 2 top 5 picks this year in a guard heavy draft. If they don't get the Laker pick this year, they get it unprotected next year. The year after that, they have Sacramento's pick unprotected. Can you imagine SAC being good by that point with this ownership? They won't get a great return for OK/Noel but they'll get something. Manage that right and you have a monster young team like that OKC team.

I understand Hinkie's limitations. I know why he was pushed out and supported it. I can also appreciate that he set the table really well for Colangelo. For where NYK is right now... we've got all our picks lined up and some decent young pieces. I'd sacrifice a few more years amassing assets with him and then cut bait like Philly did. Absolutely.

Hell, keep Phil and put Sam at GM. Maybe he can get our second rounders back

[NOOB77]

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

That is exactly what we need a team builder because nobody in our front office has a clue on how to build a team.

[Jay10]

The flaw in understanding Hinkie is thinking all he wants to do is tank at all times.

And not seeing the other pieces he amassed. I have my concerns with him putting everything back together but he's a terrific demolition artist.

That said - it's a option with a 0% chance of happening.

Why is that a "flaw in understanding"? All the man did was tank.

He ignored team needs in every trade and every draft. He amassed talent, and then had to let it go for pennies on the dollar due to glut.

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

He became david kahn with the center position.

[GONYK]

And not seeing the other pieces he amassed. I have my concerns with him putting everything back together but he's a terrific demolition artist.

That said - it's a option with a 0% chance of happening.

Why is that a "flaw in understanding"? All the man did was tank.

He ignored team needs in every trade and every draft. He amassed talent, and then had to let it go for pennies on the dollar due to glut.

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

And look what Colangelo has to work with. They've got a shot at 2 top 5 picks this year in a guard heavy draft. If they don't get the Laker pick this year, they get it unprotected next year. The year after that, they have Sacramento's pick unprotected. Can you imagine SAC being good by that point with this ownership? They won't get a great return for OK/Noel but they'll get something. Manage that right and you have a monster young team like that OKC team.

I understand Hinkie's limitations. I know why he was pushed out and supported it. I can also appreciate that he set the table really well for Colangelo. For where NYK is right now... we've got all our picks lined up and some decent young pieces. I'd sacrifice a few more years amassing assets with him and then cut bait like Philly did. Absolutely.

Hell, keep Phil and put Sam at GM.

Sure, but that isn't hard to do when you have no concern for winning, cap management, team construction, etc...

If your only mandate is to collect assets, you will collect assets.

I think any GM with that kind of latitude would have similar results. Possibly even without ending up with 3 C's, 2 of which are kind of duds.

[Knicks_Fan2]

The 76ers ownership and Hinkie agreed to the tank plan which resulted in three years of demolition and collecting assets. What other players besides maybe what will be Jahlil Okafor resulted in them trading for players for pennies? He got a top 3 protected pick for MCW for God's sakes? He took a worthwhile risk on Embiid which is paying off in spades and Noel came from atrade which yielded another first as well for Jrue Holiday. People overrate the length of that demolition job and Hinkie deserve an I, not an F, for team building. What exactly has BC done for team building? How was he not into cap management? The reason a lot of his younger players have value around the league was because he was thinking about cap management in signing them to multiple team options, resulting in team control at lower salaries. They could get first round picks today for guys like Richuan Holmes and Robert Covington. Those were good picks.

[Capn'O]

Why is that a "flaw in understanding"? All the man did was tank.

He ignored team needs in every trade and every draft. He amassed talent, and then had to let it go for pennies on the dollar due to glut.

There is a reason he got axed and they brought a real team builder in.

And look what Colangelo has to work with. They've got a shot at 2 top 5 picks this year in a guard heavy draft. If they don't get the Laker pick this year, they get it unprotected next year. The year after that, they have Sacramento's pick unprotected. Can you imagine SAC being good by that point with this ownership? They won't get a great return for OK/Noel but they'll get something. Manage that right and you have a monster young team like that OKC team.

I understand Hinkie's limitations. I know why he was pushed out and supported it. I can also appreciate that he set the table really well for Colangelo. For where NYK is right now... we've got all our picks lined up and some decent young pieces. I'd sacrifice a few more years amassing assets with him and then cut bait like Philly did. Absolutely.

Hell, keep Phil and put Sam at GM.

Sure, but that isn't hard to do when you have no concern for winning, cap management, team construction, etc...

If your only mandate is to collect assets, you will collect assets.

I think any GM with that kind of latitude would have similar results. Possibly even without ending up with 3 C's, 2 of which are kind of duds.

A) That's why you put him under a basketball guy
B) If it was so easy, name me 5 GMs that have done it?
C) Concern for cap management is actually one of the stronger selling points of his work

[GONYK]

And look what Colangelo has to work with. They've got a shot at 2 top 5 picks this year in a guard heavy draft. If they don't get the Laker pick this year, they get it unprotected next year. The year after that, they have Sacramento's pick unprotected. Can you imagine SAC being good by that point with this ownership? They won't get a great return for OK/Noel but they'll get something. Manage that right and you have a monster young team like that OKC team.

I understand Hinkie's limitations. I know why he was pushed out and supported it. I can also appreciate that he set the table really well for Colangelo. For where NYK is right now... we've got all our picks lined up and some decent young pieces. I'd sacrifice a few more years amassing assets with him and then cut bait like Philly did. Absolutely.

Hell, keep Phil and put Sam at GM.

Sure, but that isn't hard to do when you have no concern for winning, cap management, team construction, etc...

If your only mandate is to collect assets, you will collect assets.

I think any GM with that kind of latitude would have similar results. Possibly even without ending up with 3 C's, 2 of which are kind of duds.

A) That's why you put him under a basketball guy
B) If it was so easy, name me 5 GMs that have done it?

Name me 5 GMs with that kind of latitude for so long?

Where they were not only allowed to rebuild, but allowed to rebuild without any concern for building a team, without showing even the tiniest modicum of progress and allowed to trade young talent away in order to keep losing.

Hinkie wasn't just rebuilding. He was actively trying to get the worst record in the league.

[Amsterdam]

If Dolan really wants to turn the franchise around he will fire Phil right now due to his "inappropriate treatment of Melo."

Then he will interview maybe 10 different people to be the next president/general-manager.

Then post their bios, information, and video interviews online.

From the date of the postings, the fans would have 7 days to vote for the next person to run the franchise. The person who gets the most votes gets a 3 year contract and an opportunity to run this franchise with full autonomy.

It would be the first franchise that has ever been in the fans' control - a democratically elected governing body. And it would be a great show, the media would have all sorts of in depth analysis, and the fans would love it and feel empowered.

(there might have to be some sort of control over who gets to vote - like a voter registration process where only people who are address-verified to live in the tri-state area can vote - so that there aren't fans of other teams trying to sabotage the outcome - I know that there are true Knicks fans all over the world so maybe there is a better way to control the process...)

This reminds me of the Joker in the Dark Knight when all he wanted was chaos. There's wars on these boards over ridiculous things like Ron Baker and you want that same group to be entrusted with picking the next Team President? Did you not see what happened the last time a bunch of idiots were entrusted to pick a president? Lol

[Galloisdaman]

The only person that can make Melo look like a victim is PJ. All PJ has done is say 1/100th of what other coaches, fans and the media have said for years about Melo. Just remember folks. There is no Melo without ME.

[Capn'O]

Sure, but that isn't hard to do when you have no concern for winning, cap management, team construction, etc...

If your only mandate is to collect assets, you will collect assets.

I think any GM with that kind of latitude would have similar results. Possibly even without ending up with 3 C's, 2 of which are kind of duds.

A) That's why you put him under a basketball guy
B) If it was so easy, name me 5 GMs that have done it?

Name me 5 GMs with that kind of latitude for so long?

Where they were not only allowed to rebuild, but allowed to rebuild without any concern for building a team, without showing even the tiniest modicum of progress and allowed to trade young talent away in order to keep losing.

Hinkie wasn't just rebuilding. He was actively trying to get the worst record in the league.

Correct. There are none.

If your argument is essentially that ownership wouldn't allow it I have already addressed that, agreed with it, and acknowledged that this is a purely hypothetical discussion.

If your argument is that anyone could do what he did given ownership approval, I disagree. I don't believe he is uniquely qualified in this regard. I do however believe that most people, even and perhaps particularly most sports execs, aren't wired to sandbag short term progress for an extended period to achieve a certain long term result. Especially in a competitive field where flavor of the day dominates. They wouldn't be able to do it for three years and stick to it before changing gears.

Look at this board - everyone came into the year with an understanding that things could go very wrong with this group. Most of us have panicked when it actually did happen and are now asking for solutions that we wouldn't have considered when the season started. And these are not even the casual fans that make up the majority of a fanbase/attendance. These are fans that have committed to thinking about team building and this is who the GM has to answer to.

If you want to include me in that bunch, understand that my first preference for years has been a rebuild for years and return to point one. I'd be game for replacing Phil but we'd have to be looking at a very select group of people (Warriors, Spurs, Celtics underlings... would consider Sam) to do it and give them full autonomy. Those options, under Dolan, are not viable.

[Bill Pidto]

The only person that can make Melo look like a victim is PJ. All PJ has done is say 1/100th of what other coaches, fans and the media have said for years about Melo. Just remember folks. There is no Melo without ME.

Are you a Nuggets fan?

People should listen to Nuggets fans more. They had Melo when he used to take his team to the playoffs.

[Phish Tank]

The only person that can make Melo look like a victim is PJ. All PJ has done is say 1/100th of what other coaches, fans and the media have said for years about Melo. Just remember folks. There is no Melo without ME.

Are you a Nuggets fan?

People should listen to Nuggets fans more. They had Melo when he used to take his team to the playoffs.

no. he's a gallinari fan

[Galloisdaman]

The only person that can make Melo look like a victim is PJ. All PJ has done is say 1/100th of what other coaches, fans and the media have said for years about Melo. Just remember folks. There is no Melo without ME.

Are you a Nuggets fan?

People should listen to Nuggets fans more. They had Melo when he used to take his team to the playoffs.

I'm a Knicks fan that has had a major issue with the teams mercenary approach to things for years. So during the time that I can not stomach the Knicks I root for Gallo and the Nuggets. Hopefully one day the Knicks will take a approach like the Rangers so I can be proud of them again.

[NoLayupRule]

I want Hinkie.

the man with the worst track record in current basketball?

all he did was make his team terrible, trade good players and keep sucking until the NBA stepped in and forced him out

Perfect for a multi year tank

no

this is exactly the wring mindset


tanking isnt just sucking and picking the player in front of you

as you well know

Hinkie drafted many mediocre players and traded them for nothing before he got lucky in Embid

Turner, Noel, Okafor, MCW, etc

misused top lottery picks and misused players once they got here

no, keep this moron away from my team

you dont reward failure in this league or in life
look at a place where they maximized their picks and turned the tank around quickly

OKC drafted very well with all their picks
Portland
Boston
Indiana
GS
Utah


these are teams that got picks and made something with them
not Hinkie who got picks and made nothing with them

how can people claim rebuild and long term but show no vision for the future?

tanking isnt the end goal
the end goal is talent, success, championships
not a fun internet conversation in the off season