Moderators: dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule, GONYK, mpharris36, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully
GONYK wrote:Capn'O wrote:KP attacked the **** out of Draymond yesterday so bad that Dray was blaming the music.
Weren't people in here yesterday criticizing KP for taking 21 shots?
Look at how many scalps KP has collected in this league already. I don't see a kid that is afraid.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:We could still use Lin if he was healthy. He'd be our best PG. Lin/KP pick n rolls...
It still really was dumb to let him go for nothing. Had a young PG with promise...its not like we could have gotten under the cap. Should have tried to keep developing him.
ibraheim718 wrote:In the animal kingdom you don't know if a pup is going to assume the position of alpha male until the older alpha male dies or is killed.
Get rid of Melo and Rose and let's see if Porzingis wants to assume that role.. maybe it'll be Willie and he doesn't have to be the center of the offense to be the alpha that can still be Porzingis. Or maybe it'll be the player we draft this summer. But I'll tell you it can't be.. the player who didn't care of everyone else eats or not.
But great players don't have to be alpha males. Look at Duncan or Dirk.
The more important thing is you want your alpha to be your point guard... Because typically they're the best decision makers on the team i.e Magic or Kidd. Look at a lesser player like Avery Johnson who was most certainly the alpha male of those Spurs teams with his little self.
Greenie wrote:KnicksGod wrote:Greenie wrote:
I don't want KP deferring to Lance when both Melo and Rose is out.
I want him to go out of his way to assert himself.
I rather have him miss the shot than have Lance brick it.
I have to disagree with that absolute. I'd rather him make the right play, which is different in every situation.
I do too.
But if KP and Lance both have bad shots who do you want looking to assert themselves over the other?
KnicksGod wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:We could still use Lin if he was healthy. He'd be our best PG. Lin/KP pick n rolls...
It still really was dumb to let him go for nothing. Had a young PG with promise...its not like we could have gotten under the cap. Should have tried to keep developing him.
Yeah he was many times better than the Ray-JR tandem of doom. He's proved that repeatedly.
It was Melo's last shot at decency. Not every team can win a title with their talent but it's better than going into free fall, which we did after Lin left. That was the worst 54-win season in the history of the NBA.
KnicksGod wrote:Greenie wrote:KnicksGod wrote:
I have to disagree with that absolute. I'd rather him make the right play, which is different in every situation.
I do too.
But if KP and Lance both have bad shots who do you want looking to assert themselves over the other?
I mean, I think I'd rather generally have the player who thinks pass first at all times except when he's good & ready to take a big shot and knows full well he can make it.
You're putting the cart before the horse a little. He's 21. He needs work on all of his moves. He's a good shooter so he can get there. He has extraordinary height. Nobody is saying he's a finished product.
I think you're saying, sort of, that KP could be better if he had a stronger will to win or to assert himself. But maybe he's just a smart kid who understands that he's NOT ready to dominate. That he's not yet that good.
What's wrong with that? Playing within oneself is most often a good thing, especially at this age, rather than the bad thing you seem to be saying it is.
And yet, with those limitations in experience and polish, he can drop over 20, grab 10, against the best team in the league. And play D. It's your right to feel like he still leaves something to be desired, but I'm content for now. I'm not interested in him coming out there and trying all sorts of new things and popping off shots just so he can seem machismo.
I'm not interested in the 7-foot Nick Young. I like this Kristaps and consider him ahead of schedule. I also don't see the shrinking violet you do really. He has ups and downs but that's probably at least in large part attributable to age and a growing game, and not some basketball character defect.
Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?
Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?
Greenie wrote:battabing10 wrote:Greenie wrote:Still on numbers.
Stop looking at numbers and watch how he behaves on the court.
first quarter yesterday he played passive because green ate his lunch the first couple of games.
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/12/16/draymond-green-kristaps-porzingis-comments-knicks-warriors
kp figured out green finally. that show me he have a alpha in him just fine. unlike kawhi who is my fave kp is stuck in a shyt situation with melo and rose not in a golden one like with dunc/manu/tony/pop. not everybody larry you know.
Who's Larry?
KnicksGod wrote:Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?
Sort of true. But can you think of 2 more guys who love to dribble into their scores than Melo and Rose? Also you've admitted that Horny calls iso plays. In fact KP is iso-ing a lot. So 2 dribble-scorers who think they're great (for better or worse) and a coach who's okay with that. Not easy.
But yeah eventually KP won't be denied if he's truly really good. I just think his situation is pretty exceptional too.
Both things can be true. We play tug of war about stuff but the world is very gray.
blueNorange wrote:Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?
lmaoo at the players you listed, which is funny because a lot of those guys didn't put it together until their 3rd or 4th season.
or as derozan's case, his 5th season.
but kristaps has peaked in his 2nd season.
Greenie wrote:blueNorange wrote:Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?
lmaoo at the players you listed, which is funny because a lot of those guys didn't put it together until their 3rd or 4th season.
or as derozan's case, his 5th season.
but kristaps has peaked in his 2nd season.
You have a hard time reading. You only see the words you wish to see.
We're talking about being "frozen out"
of games.
KG understood it. You didn't.
Greenie wrote:JBreezeNY wrote:Greenie wrote:You're still on numbers instead of approach.
I don't care if Kobe was averaging 10 per game his 5th year in the league. It was his approach.
You know who has an Alpha approach?
Dion Waiters. His skill may not get him there though.Greenie wrote:Nah.
Duncan came in guns blazing and Dirk did too. Numbers and percentages aside. I'm talking the approach to the game. Struggling or not.
It's why I say I see more of it in Willy and dude is failing half the time. That's not stopping him for trying to take a game over.
I don't know how they're not getting it?
I mean no disrespect in this but do you guys actually interact with people? It's not that hard to understand.
Even with Duncan I saw him with a give me the ball approach at Wake Forest even with his quiet demeanor.
Exactly.
Kawhi had that too. He just had vets that would ignore him
For good reason. Hell, Pop used to bench Kawhi to reel him back in. He still does
You don't gotta yell and scream to be an Alpha. Your teammates know what's up.
GONYK wrote:Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?Greenie wrote:JBreezeNY wrote:
I don't know how they're not getting it?
I mean no disrespect in this but do you guys actually interact with people? It's not that hard to understand.
Even with Duncan I saw him with a give me the ball approach at Wake Forest even with his quiet demeanor.
Exactly.
Kawhi had that too. He just had vets that would ignore him
For good reason. Hell, Pop used to bench Kawhi to reel him back in. He still does
You don't gotta yell and scream to be an Alpha. Your teammates know what's up.
So Kawhi was getting frozen out when he was putting up puppy dog numbers?
Greenie wrote:GONYK wrote:Greenie wrote:Let me put it like this so maybe my point will be better understood.
We never say teammates freeze out Melo, Rose, Kobe, Dirk, Derozen, Towns, AD, Cousins, IT, Klay(who's a 3rd option), Harden, Emib(Even Jah), Kemba, Beal and so on and so on.
There is no such thing as "freezing" those guys out. Every guy we seem to draft has this problem here though. I remember us "freezing" out Gallo or Lee or Lin and whoever else was a crowd favorite here.
Why can't it be those dudes just weren't those type of guys?Greenie wrote:Exactly.
Kawhi had that too. He just had vets that would ignore him
For good reason. Hell, Pop used to bench Kawhi to reel him back in. He still does
You don't gotta yell and scream to be an Alpha. Your teammates know what's up.
So Kawhi was getting frozen out when he was putting up puppy dog numbers?
Not always getting touches and being froze out are two separate things.
Keep reaching. We are never going to agree.
Posters are whining right now about KP being frozen ouy while Melo is not playing tonight and Rose wasn't on the floor.
