ImageImageImageImageImage

Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe

Moderators: moocow007, Knickstape1214, magnumt, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Capn'O, Thorn, AllanH20, j4remi, Thugger HBC, Brooklyn_Yards, mrpoetryNmotion

User avatar
K-DOT
Starter
Posts: 2,309
And1: 1,387
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#101 » by K-DOT » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:11 pm

Greenie wrote:That 17 win team was a Jackson special.

Draft picks doesn't save him. Please stop acting like it does. Every team in the NBA gets 2 picks every draft. They have the option to move them or use them. Phil has done both. Having draft picks is not a miracle. It's expected.

Jackson has made both good and bad moves. Period. We don't really have to go down the list, but he's had more than one good and damn sure more than one bad.

You sound like the chicks that defend their trifling, ho ass man by saying "at least he doesn't beat me".

The. Fuq?

Right, because it's Phil's fault we didn't have our 2014 and 2016 first rounders, meaning he had no reason to tank
You know who was picked with those two picks?
Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
And Zach Lavine was taken one pick after our 2014 first
Guaranteed if we had those two picks we'd be in a much better spot right now

That'd be like you getting mad at Sean Marks in two years when the Nets still suck. The only thing the Nets have now that we didn't in 2014 is cap space
Regardless of what you think of the other moves I didn't mention (IMO, they don't matter in the long run), the team is in a better spot now then when Jax took over, that's all I'm saying.
He's been far from great, but by no means is he terrible.
Apparently that's too hard to understand for some on this board
If I told you that a flower bloomed in a dark room would you trust it?
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 43,949
And1: 6,520
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#102 » by NoLayupRule » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:16 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Woodson shouldn't really be counted either. Phil didn't hire him.

Perhaps
But he sure did fire him
And that's the point
He's replaced three coaches and is on his fourth


He has replaced:

Woodson
Fisher

So he has only replaced 2 coaches, since you aren't counting Rambis, who was just an interim

the point being there have been a lot of coaches in his tenure here, right?
or are you splitting hairs?
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,006
And1: 12,646
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: TeamPhil
   

Re: RE: Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#103 » by GONYK » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:46 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Perhaps
But he sure did fire him
And that's the point
He's replaced three coaches and is on his fourth


He has replaced:

Woodson
Fisher

So he has only replaced 2 coaches, since you aren't counting Rambis, who was just an interim

the point being there have been a lot of coaches in his tenure here, right?
or are you splitting hairs?

Except, there hasn't.

Woodson wasn't really part of the Jackson tenure.

It has been Fisher and Jeff, and Jeff is still here.
Image
User avatar
moocow007
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 87,137
And1: 13,520
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#104 » by moocow007 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:51 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Greenie wrote:That 17 win team was a Jackson special.

Draft picks doesn't save him. Please stop acting like it does. Every team in the NBA gets 2 picks every draft. They have the option to move them or use them. Phil has done both. Having draft picks is not a miracle. It's expected.

Jackson has made both good and bad moves. Period. We don't really have to go down the list, but he's had more than one good and damn sure more than one bad.

You sound like the chicks that defend their trifling, ho ass man by saying "at least he doesn't beat me".

The. Fuq?

Right, because it's Phil's fault we didn't have our 2014 and 2016 first rounders, meaning he had no reason to tank

You know who was picked with those two picks?
Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
And Zach Lavine was taken one pick after our 2014 first
Guaranteed if we had those two picks we'd be in a much better spot right now

That'd be like you getting mad at Sean Marks in two years when the Nets still suck. The only thing the Nets have now that we didn't in 2014 is cap space
Regardless of what you think of the other moves I didn't mention (IMO, they don't matter in the long run), the team is in a better spot now then when Jax took over, that's all I'm saying.
He's been far from great, but by no means is he terrible.
Apparently that's too hard to understand for some on this board


Jackson is the highest paid front office person in NBA history. He was paid that to be "not terrible" or to be better than Isiah Thomas. The Knicks needed more than just a hall monitor with a name, they needed someone that actually knew what he's doing, that has a plan and can actually execute it. Jackson has been terrible at the job he was hired for. Every single player on this team is his...even Anthony since he not only did not trade Anthony when his value was actually still high but then also resigning him (and adding that NTC). 3 years later we're again looking at a redo. Jackson may not be the worst "GM" in the NBA but he's in the bottom group and that's terrible all things considered.
Legends Draft
C:Nate Thurmond/DeAndre Jordan
PF:Shawn Kemp/Blake Griffin/Josh Smith
SF:Elgin Baylor/Paul Pressey/Cliff Hagan/Larry Kenon
SG:Dale Ellis/Hersey Hawkins/Jason Richardson
PG:Magic Johnson/Derrick Rose/Lenny Wilkens
Amsterdam
Starter
Posts: 2,153
And1: 1,053
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#105 » by Amsterdam » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:55 pm

Greenie wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Pjax4Prez wrote:
I'm with you on this. I never loved Woodson as a coach but he was by far our best coach for awhile, truthfully didn't think he deserved to be fired after having one rough season in which we, traded for Bargs, Tyson broke his leg at like the beginning of the season, Jr smith wrecked his knee and eventually was more interested in untying shoes than playing basketball.

We fired Woodson because he's not Phil's guy, which isn't uncommon in the NBA or any other sport. My problem is "Phils guy" was literally coming from jersey to clipboard, and it was obvious he would be learning on the job.


Mike Woodson sucked!

and Fisher, Rambis and Hornecek sucked worse.


Feel however you wish about Woody, but the bottom line is under him we had some of our best seasons in the past 20 years.

He didn't deserve to be fired after one bad season where we damn near made the playoffs with 37 wins. A total that we have yet to reach under any head coach that Phil has chosen.



Your statement is biased and predicated on the Phil hate.

Woodson wasn't any better than D'Antoni or the others, he had what may be considered the best team the Knicks have had a couple of decades.
JKidd was the player coach that year, let's not "kidd" ourselves and Rasheed was the enforcer on the floor and locker room.

JKidd's experience on the Knicks gave him the impetus to launch his coaching career, while Woody is still an assistant.
User avatar
K-DOT
Starter
Posts: 2,309
And1: 1,387
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#106 » by K-DOT » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:01 pm

moocow007 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Greenie wrote:That 17 win team was a Jackson special.

Draft picks doesn't save him. Please stop acting like it does. Every team in the NBA gets 2 picks every draft. They have the option to move them or use them. Phil has done both. Having draft picks is not a miracle. It's expected.

Jackson has made both good and bad moves. Period. We don't really have to go down the list, but he's had more than one good and damn sure more than one bad.

You sound like the chicks that defend their trifling, ho ass man by saying "at least he doesn't beat me".

The. Fuq?

Right, because it's Phil's fault we didn't have our 2014 and 2016 first rounders, meaning he had no reason to tank

You know who was picked with those two picks?
Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
And Zach Lavine was taken one pick after our 2014 first
Guaranteed if we had those two picks we'd be in a much better spot right now

That'd be like you getting mad at Sean Marks in two years when the Nets still suck. The only thing the Nets have now that we didn't in 2014 is cap space
Regardless of what you think of the other moves I didn't mention (IMO, they don't matter in the long run), the team is in a better spot now then when Jax took over, that's all I'm saying.
He's been far from great, but by no means is he terrible.
Apparently that's too hard to understand for some on this board


Jackson is the highest paid front office person in NBA history. He was paid that to be "not terrible" or to be better than Isiah Thomas. The Knicks needed more than just a hall monitor with a name, they needed someone that actually knew what he's doing, that has a plan and can actually execute it. Jackson has been terrible at the job he was hired for. Every single player on this team is his...even Anthony since he not only did not trade Anthony when his value was actually still high but then also resigning him (and adding that NTC). 3 years later we're again looking at a redo. Jackson may not be the worst "GM" in the NBA but he's in the bottom group and that's terrible all things considered.

You're right, of course, but what did you honestly expect?
We had nothing in the way of assets (besides Melo) when Phil took over, and with no draft picks, going through a youth movement was out of the question
Like I said before, the Nets are basically where we were when Phil took over, with the exception that they have cap space and a GM who isn't nearly as egotistical as Phil
If I knew for a fact that Dolan learned his lesson from the past 16 years and was looking at GMs with actual pedigrees, I'd be on the fire Phil side. But I have no faith in him to do so, which is why I'm fine with Phil
If I told you that a flower bloomed in a dark room would you trust it?
User avatar
mpharris36
RealGM
Posts: 40,617
And1: 13,713
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#107 » by mpharris36 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:04 pm

K-DOT wrote:You're right, of course, but what did you honestly expect?
We had nothing in the way of assets (besides Melo) when Phil took over, and with no draft picks, going through a youth movement was out of the question
Like I said before, the Nets are basically where we were when Phil took over, with the exception that they have cap space and a GM who isn't nearly as egotistical as Phil
If I knew for a fact that Dolan learned his lesson from the past 16 years and was looking at GMs with actual pedigrees, I'd be on the fire Phil side. But I have no faith in him to do so, which is why I'm fine with Phil


:clap:
User avatar
moocow007
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 87,137
And1: 13,520
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#108 » by moocow007 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:05 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Mike Woodson sucked!

and Fisher, Rambis and Hornecek sucked worse.


Feel however you wish about Woody, but the bottom line is under him we had some of our best seasons in the past 20 years.

He didn't deserve to be fired after one bad season where we damn near made the playoffs with 37 wins. A total that we have yet to reach under any head coach that Phil has chosen.



Your statement is biased. Woodson wasn't any better, he only that he had the best team the Knicks have had a couple of decades.
JKidd was the player coach that year, let's not "kidd" ourselves.
JKidd's experience on the Knicks gave him the impetus to launch his coaching career, while Woody is still an assistant.


How is Greenie's statement biased and your statement not? Jason Kidd's WS with the Knicks that one year was 5.4 not 25.4. The Knicks won 54 games not 34 that year. Folks need to stop with the Jason Kidd was the coach crap. What the Knicks had was a team that fit extremely well together around Anthony who had an MVP like season and JR Smith was 6MOY. Something that Phil Jackson has yet to figure out.
Legends Draft
C:Nate Thurmond/DeAndre Jordan
PF:Shawn Kemp/Blake Griffin/Josh Smith
SF:Elgin Baylor/Paul Pressey/Cliff Hagan/Larry Kenon
SG:Dale Ellis/Hersey Hawkins/Jason Richardson
PG:Magic Johnson/Derrick Rose/Lenny Wilkens
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 39,138
And1: 16,614
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: I don't really know
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#109 » by Greenie » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:08 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Mike Woodson sucked!

and Fisher, Rambis and Hornecek sucked worse.


Feel however you wish about Woody, but the bottom line is under him we had some of our best seasons in the past 20 years.

He didn't deserve to be fired after one bad season where we damn near made the playoffs with 37 wins. A total that we have yet to reach under any head coach that Phil has chosen.



Your statement is biased and predicated on the Phil hate.

Woodson wasn't any better than D'Antoni or the others, he had what may be considered the best team the Knicks have had a couple of decades.
JKidd was the player coach that year, let's not "kidd" ourselves and Rasheed was the enforcer on the floor and locker room.

JKidd's experience on the Knicks gave him the impetus to launch his coaching career, while Woody is still an assistant.

Kidd was here one year. 1. Wallace played in a handful of games so being an enforcer on the court was impossible. You really shouldn't bring up Kidds coaching career...

Woody made the playoffs every year he was here except the last....where we won 37 games. I said then we shouldn't have fired him.


This isn't even biased talking right now. Those are facts. Phil called the team he took over clunky and clumsy and yet we've gotten even more clunky and clumsy. We have yet to hit 37 wins during Phil's tenure. We are now in year 4. Facts. Not make believe.
KNICKS REALGM B-A-RL
Bad Boy Records:
The Notorious BIG
Exec: Sean "Puffy, Diddy, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy" Combs.
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 39,138
And1: 16,614
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: I don't really know
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#110 » by Greenie » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:08 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Greenie wrote:and Fisher, Rambis and Hornecek sucked worse.


Feel however you wish about Woody, but the bottom line is under him we had some of our best seasons in the past 20 years.

He didn't deserve to be fired after one bad season where we damn near made the playoffs with 37 wins. A total that we have yet to reach under any head coach that Phil has chosen.



Your statement is biased. Woodson wasn't any better, he only that he had the best team the Knicks have had a couple of decades.
JKidd was the player coach that year, let's not "kidd" ourselves.
JKidd's experience on the Knicks gave him the impetus to launch his coaching career, while Woody is still an assistant.


How is Greenie's statement biased and your statement not? Jason Kidd's WS with the Knicks that one year was 5.4 not 25.4. The Knicks won 54 games not 34 that year. Folks need to stop with the Jason Kidd was the coach crap. What the Knicks had was a team that fit extremely well together around Anthony who had an MVP like season and JR Smith was 6MOY. Something that Phil Jackson has yet to figure out.

Bingo
KNICKS REALGM B-A-RL
Bad Boy Records:
The Notorious BIG
Exec: Sean "Puffy, Diddy, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy" Combs.
User avatar
3toheadmelo
Head Coach
Posts: 6,449
And1: 3,104
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#111 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:12 pm

it seems like every time we fire a coach, we hire a worse one
im gonna give hornacek another year..
BAT
Cleveland Cavailiers (w/co-gm ctorres)
G: Jeff Teague/Jameer Nelson
G: Tyler Johnson/Marco Belinelli/Jordan McRae
F:Kevin Durant/Joe Harris/Mike Scott
F: Terrence Jones/David Lee
C: Mason Plumlee/Ivica Zubac
User avatar
moocow007
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 87,137
And1: 13,520
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#112 » by moocow007 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:15 pm

K-DOT wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Right, because it's Phil's fault we didn't have our 2014 and 2016 first rounders, meaning he had no reason to tank

You know who was picked with those two picks?
Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
And Zach Lavine was taken one pick after our 2014 first
Guaranteed if we had those two picks we'd be in a much better spot right now

That'd be like you getting mad at Sean Marks in two years when the Nets still suck. The only thing the Nets have now that we didn't in 2014 is cap space
Regardless of what you think of the other moves I didn't mention (IMO, they don't matter in the long run), the team is in a better spot now then when Jax took over, that's all I'm saying.
He's been far from great, but by no means is he terrible.
Apparently that's too hard to understand for some on this board


Jackson is the highest paid front office person in NBA history. He was paid that to be "not terrible" or to be better than Isiah Thomas. The Knicks needed more than just a hall monitor with a name, they needed someone that actually knew what he's doing, that has a plan and can actually execute it. Jackson has been terrible at the job he was hired for. Every single player on this team is his...even Anthony since he not only did not trade Anthony when his value was actually still high but then also resigning him (and adding that NTC). 3 years later we're again looking at a redo. Jackson may not be the worst "GM" in the NBA but he's in the bottom group and that's terrible all things considered.

You're right, of course, but what did you honestly expect?
We had nothing in the way of assets (besides Melo) when Phil took over, and with no draft picks, going through a youth movement was out of the question
Like I said before, the Nets are basically where we were when Phil took over, with the exception that they have cap space and a GM who isn't nearly as egotistical as Phil
If I knew for a fact that Dolan learned his lesson from the past 16 years and was looking at GMs with actual pedigrees, I'd be on the fire Phil side. But I have no faith in him to do so, which is why I'm fine with Phil


I expected a direction and a game plan? 3 years later, what is the game plan? What direction is he headed? Basic things. Tell me what his game plan is? Waffle for 3 years until a miracle happens? I'd be even fine with that if I actually believed that was the plan.

And why are we comparing Jackson's Knicks resume to what Marks has managed with the Nets (the worst team in the NBA)? Isn't that along the lines of trying to defend Jackson by saying at least he's not Isiah Thomas?

Also not sure what the implication of your statement that the Nets have cap space is. Jackson has also had 2 years of major cap space and a roster that is 100% of his selection. What has he accomplished with that cap space other than consuming it without much of anything to show for it compared to Marks not consuming it (and as a result, not having much to show for it)?

What does Dolan being a moron have to do with Phil Jackson being a bad GM? Just because Dolan is an idiot shouldn't excuse Jackson any unless we want to lump Jackson in with Dolan. If that's the case, then ok. But we shouldn't. Jackson absolutely should be held to a higher standard and, as a result, be judged by that standard.
Legends Draft
C:Nate Thurmond/DeAndre Jordan
PF:Shawn Kemp/Blake Griffin/Josh Smith
SF:Elgin Baylor/Paul Pressey/Cliff Hagan/Larry Kenon
SG:Dale Ellis/Hersey Hawkins/Jason Richardson
PG:Magic Johnson/Derrick Rose/Lenny Wilkens
User avatar
moocow007
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 87,137
And1: 13,520
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#113 » by moocow007 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Further on this Jason Kidd is the reason for 54 wins...

Jason Kidd has managed just 1 winning season as a head coach (out of 4 seasons) and that team only won 44 games. So to imply that Jason Kidd was the reason for 54 wins in 2012-2013 because he was the "head coach" is just crazy.

He's got a guy that most of you would say is MUCH BETTER than Anthony (i.e. Greek Freak who himself could be in the MVP race) and they are still a borderline playoff team (they are half a game from being a lottery team...again).
Legends Draft
C:Nate Thurmond/DeAndre Jordan
PF:Shawn Kemp/Blake Griffin/Josh Smith
SF:Elgin Baylor/Paul Pressey/Cliff Hagan/Larry Kenon
SG:Dale Ellis/Hersey Hawkins/Jason Richardson
PG:Magic Johnson/Derrick Rose/Lenny Wilkens
User avatar
K-DOT
Starter
Posts: 2,309
And1: 1,387
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#114 » by K-DOT » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:22 pm

moocow007 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Jackson is the highest paid front office person in NBA history. He was paid that to be "not terrible" or to be better than Isiah Thomas. The Knicks needed more than just a hall monitor with a name, they needed someone that actually knew what he's doing, that has a plan and can actually execute it. Jackson has been terrible at the job he was hired for. Every single player on this team is his...even Anthony since he not only did not trade Anthony when his value was actually still high but then also resigning him (and adding that NTC). 3 years later we're again looking at a redo. Jackson may not be the worst "GM" in the NBA but he's in the bottom group and that's terrible all things considered.

You're right, of course, but what did you honestly expect?
We had nothing in the way of assets (besides Melo) when Phil took over, and with no draft picks, going through a youth movement was out of the question
Like I said before, the Nets are basically where we were when Phil took over, with the exception that they have cap space and a GM who isn't nearly as egotistical as Phil
If I knew for a fact that Dolan learned his lesson from the past 16 years and was looking at GMs with actual pedigrees, I'd be on the fire Phil side. But I have no faith in him to do so, which is why I'm fine with Phil


I expected a direction and a game plan? 3 years later, what is the game plan? What direction is he headed? Basic things. Tell me what his game plan is? Waffle for 3 years until a miracle happens? I'd be even fine with that if I actually believed that was the plan.

And why are we comparing Jackson's Knicks resume to what Marks has managed with the Nets (the worst team in the NBA)? Isn't that along the lines of trying to defend Jackson by saying at least he's not Isiah Thomas?

Also not sure what the implication of your statement that the Nets have cap space is. Jackson has also had 2 years of major cap space and a roster that is 100% of his selection. What has he accomplished with that cap space other than consuming it without much of anything to show for it compared to Marks not consuming it (and as a result, not having much to show for it)?

What does Dolan being a moron have to do with Phil Jackson being a bad GM? Just because Dolan is an idiot shouldn't excuse Jackson any unless we want to lump Jackson in with Dolan. If that's the case, then ok. But we shouldn't. Jackson absolutely should be held to a higher standard and, as a result, be judged by that standard.

He has no direction cause in his mind there was no reason to tank, as he had no draft picks 2 out of the first 3 years, then this year, he counted on KP alone being good enough that he didn't need to get another top pick (not that I agree with this line of thinking, but that is the explanation), so he swung for the fences and whiffed. Thankfully, we still have our pick
And I was comparing the situation the Nets are in now to the situation the Knicks were in when Phil took over back in 14
I didn't say anything about how good Marks is, just that he has nowhere near the ego that Phil has (to be fair, not many people do)
If I told you that a flower bloomed in a dark room would you trust it?
User avatar
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 17,032
And1: 8,049
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#115 » by dakomish23 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:28 pm

K-DOT wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:A f***ing diamond drill could not get through how thick your skull is

Not terrible =/= great

Phil has been underwhelming and mediocre throughout his tenure here as President

You do understand the concept of middle ground right?
This is why we can't have nice things. You're either a star or a bum to Knick fans. There is no in-between with you people, which is why we've sucked for so long


If you can't handle a different opinion other than "Knicks can do no wrong", you might be on the wrong site.

The guy has done a bad job since the DRose deal. He had done a okay job before that IMO. Let's see if he bounces back or continues to make excuses and blames everyone else.

Seriously, you need to get your head checked out

I have never once said the Knicks can do no wrong. I LITERALLY just said in the post you quoted that he has been underwhelming and mediocre. Maybe it's too hard of a concept for you to understand, but there's something in between genius and idiot.

But nope, this roster is totally the worst in Knicks history, the 17 win season our roster was so much better
Phil Jackson is the worst President we've had, that's why we have cap space, draft picks, and young players when before him we had no cap space, no draft picks, and no young players

Phil made one good move in drafting KP
He made one bad move in signing Noah
Everything else has been meh or inconsequential

Do you need me to repeat that, because it seems like you have a difficult time understanding what I'm saying.


Image

Everything is not inconsequential. The fact that you think that screams how low bar the set is for you. That is the most ridiculous statement you've said yet.

I have no problem understanding your excuses. I just see them for what they are - excuses. So no, I don't agree with your defense of PJax maneuvers this past year.

Learn to live with it, because I'm not going to stop calling this season what it was - an gigantic failure of epic proportions. And that falls at the feet of the creator of this roster.
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


2016-17 Knicks

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter
User avatar
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 17,032
And1: 8,049
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#116 » by dakomish23 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:31 pm

moocow007 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Jackson is the highest paid front office person in NBA history. He was paid that to be "not terrible" or to be better than Isiah Thomas. The Knicks needed more than just a hall monitor with a name, they needed someone that actually knew what he's doing, that has a plan and can actually execute it. Jackson has been terrible at the job he was hired for. Every single player on this team is his...even Anthony since he not only did not trade Anthony when his value was actually still high but then also resigning him (and adding that NTC). 3 years later we're again looking at a redo. Jackson may not be the worst "GM" in the NBA but he's in the bottom group and that's terrible all things considered.

You're right, of course, but what did you honestly expect?
We had nothing in the way of assets (besides Melo) when Phil took over, and with no draft picks, going through a youth movement was out of the question
Like I said before, the Nets are basically where we were when Phil took over, with the exception that they have cap space and a GM who isn't nearly as egotistical as Phil
If I knew for a fact that Dolan learned his lesson from the past 16 years and was looking at GMs with actual pedigrees, I'd be on the fire Phil side. But I have no faith in him to do so, which is why I'm fine with Phil


I expected a direction and a game plan? 3 years later, what is the game plan? What direction is he headed? Basic things. Tell me what his game plan is? Waffle for 3 years until a miracle happens? I'd be even fine with that if I actually believed that was the plan.

And why are we comparing Jackson's Knicks resume to what Marks has managed with the Nets (the worst team in the NBA)? Isn't that along the lines of trying to defend Jackson by saying at least he's not Isiah Thomas?

Also not sure what the implication of your statement that the Nets have cap space is. Jackson has also had 2 years of major cap space and a roster that is 100% of his selection. What has he accomplished with that cap space other than consuming it without much of anything to show for it compared to Marks not consuming it (and as a result, not having much to show for it)?

What does Dolan being a moron have to do with Phil Jackson being a bad GM? Just because Dolan is an idiot shouldn't excuse Jackson any unless we want to lump Jackson in with Dolan. If that's the case, then ok. But we shouldn't. Jackson absolutely should be held to a higher standard and, as a result, be judged by that standard.


And if your plan was to pray for a miracle, why the f did you spend all your cap space last summer wen you were so far away from contention???

He can fix this if he's smart. I'm just not sure he is
Spoiler:




Read on Twitter


2016-17 Knicks

Spoiler:




Read on Twitter
Amsterdam
Starter
Posts: 2,153
And1: 1,053
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#117 » by Amsterdam » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:34 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Greenie wrote:and Fisher, Rambis and Hornecek sucked worse.


Feel however you wish about Woody, but the bottom line is under him we had some of our best seasons in the past 20 years.

He didn't deserve to be fired after one bad season where we damn near made the playoffs with 37 wins. A total that we have yet to reach under any head coach that Phil has chosen.



Your statement is biased. Woodson wasn't any better, he only that he had the best team the Knicks have had a couple of decades.
JKidd was the player coach that year, let's not "kidd" ourselves.
JKidd's experience on the Knicks gave him the impetus to launch his coaching career, while Woody is still an assistant.


How is Greenie's statement biased and your statement not? Jason Kidd's WS with the Knicks that one year was 5.4 not 25.4. The Knicks won 54 games not 34 that year. Folks need to stop with the Jason Kidd was the coach crap. What the Knicks had was a team that fit extremely well together around Anthony who had an MVP like season and JR Smith was 6MOY. Something that Phil Jackson has yet to figure out.



You seem to intent to negate how influential the veterans on the team were. What did Woody have to do really?
And who was the GM that year, the same dude that traded our #1 for Bargnani and had an opened door policy with CAA.
User avatar
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 17,032
And1: 8,049
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#118 » by dakomish23 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:34 pm

Greenie wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
If you can't handle a different opinion other than "Knicks can do no wrong", you might be on the wrong site.

The guy has done a bad job since the DRose deal. He had done a okay job before that IMO. Let's see if he bounces back or continues to make excuses and blames everyone else.

Seriously, you need to get your head checked out

I have never once said the Knicks can do no wrong. I LITERALLY just said in the post you quoted that he has been underwhelming and mediocre. Maybe it's too hard of a concept for you to understand, but there's something in between genius and idiot.

But nope, this roster is totally the worst in Knicks history, the 17 win season our roster was so much better
Phil Jackson is the worst President we've had, that's why we have cap space, draft picks, and young players when before him we had no cap space, no draft picks, and no young players

Phil made one good move in drafting KP
He made one bad move in signing Noah
Everything else has been meh or inconsequential

Do you need me to repeat that, because it seems like you have a difficult time understanding what I'm saying.



That 17 win team was a Jackson special.

Draft picks doesn't save him. Please stop acting like it does. Every team in the NBA gets 2 picks every draft. They have the option to move them or use them. Phil has done both. Having draft picks is not a miracle. It's expected.

Jackson has made both good and bad moves. Period. We don't really have to go down the list, but he's had more than one good and damn sure more than one bad.

You sound like the chicks that defend their trifling, ho ass man by saying "at least he doesn't beat me".

The. Fuq?


The motto for this fanbase

Image
Spoiler:




Read on Twitter


2016-17 Knicks

Spoiler:




Read on Twitter
User avatar
Greenie
RealGM
Posts: 39,138
And1: 16,614
Joined: Feb 25, 2010
Location: I don't really know
     

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#119 » by Greenie » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:35 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Greenie wrote:That 17 win team was a Jackson special.

Draft picks doesn't save him. Please stop acting like it does. Every team in the NBA gets 2 picks every draft. They have the option to move them or use them. Phil has done both. Having draft picks is not a miracle. It's expected.

Jackson has made both good and bad moves. Period. We don't really have to go down the list, but he's had more than one good and damn sure more than one bad.

You sound like the chicks that defend their trifling, ho ass man by saying "at least he doesn't beat me".

The. Fuq?

Right, because it's Phil's fault we didn't have our 2014 and 2016 first rounders, meaning he had no reason to tank
You know who was picked with those two picks?
Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
And Zach Lavine was taken one pick after our 2014 first
Guaranteed if we had those two picks we'd be in a much better spot right now

That'd be like you getting mad at Sean Marks in two years when the Nets still suck. The only thing the Nets have now that we didn't in 2014 is cap space
Regardless of what you think of the other moves I didn't mention (IMO, they don't matter in the long run), the team is in a better spot now then when Jax took over, that's all I'm saying.
He's been far from great, but by no means is he terrible.
Apparently that's too hard to understand for some on this board



I never in life blamed loss of picks on him.
I don't care who was taken with those picks that Donnie and Grunnie traded.

Phil is in his 4th year now. 4th. Not 1st, 2nd or even 3rd. This summer will be his 4th off-season, his 4th draft, his 4th free agency.

And no, we are not in a better spot. Our picks were already coming. With or without Phil. That's seems like it's too hard for you to grasp along with the "but we have our picks" crew.

Draft picks are given to each and every team. Stop acting like they aren't. Hell, with DRAFTED Shumpert and Hardaway before Phil. So picks were here. We didn't have back to back years of our picks but we were always in the clear from 2017 on BEFORE PHIL.
KNICKS REALGM B-A-RL
Bad Boy Records:
The Notorious BIG
Exec: Sean "Puffy, Diddy, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy" Combs.
Amsterdam
Starter
Posts: 2,153
And1: 1,053
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
       

Re: Per NY Post: Hornacek's job is safe 

Post#120 » by Amsterdam » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:38 pm

moocow007 wrote:Further on this Jason Kidd is the reason for 54 wins...

Jason Kidd has managed just 1 winning season as a head coach (out of 4 seasons) and that team only won 44 games. So to imply that Jason Kidd was the reason for 54 wins in 2012-2013 because he was the "head coach" is just crazy.

He's got a guy that most of you would say is MUCH BETTER than Anthony (i.e. Greek Freak who himself could be in the MVP race) and they are still a borderline playoff team (they are half a game from being a lottery team...again).


Not implying he's a great coach, you are taking me out of context. what I'm saying is that that was Carmelo's best team cause he had a strong floor general who didn't bend over backwards to please his game.

Woody is no better than the rest, that's all I'm saying. BTW, at least JKidd is a head coach.....

BTW, for all the bashing on Phil, some of you forget how influential CAA was and how ingrained they had become un Grunwald/Dolan.
You think Dolan didn't ask Phil to get CAA out of the MSG? You think that was easy? CAA was running the ship and didn't give a dam how the pieces fit as long as their client got paid.

Some of you have very very short memories.

Return to New York Knicks