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Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball

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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#121 » by iLovethosedamnknicks » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:37 pm

i would nut all over the place if i were to get ball.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#122 » by moocow007 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:49 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:No matter who we draft we should try to trade Melo


Agreed. But they need to get some serious value back and not just basically dump him.


Melo's on a max deal with a NTC. You're not getting value back there. He's a total sunk cost with total control on where he goes. The Knicks are staring at a buyout situation if he's not willing to budge on destinations or leaving at all.


Carmelo Anthony is not a sunk cost. That's just an idiotic statement. Buyout? Why on earth would the Knicks buy him out? Because they're morons? Anthony not being Lebron James or the same guy from his peak doesn't mean he's absolute crap. He may not net great value but let's not get carried away to the other extreme.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#123 » by moocow007 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:50 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Melo's on a max deal with a NTC. You're not getting value back there. He's a total sunk cost with total control on where he goes. The Knicks are staring at a buyout situation if he's not willing to budge on destinations or leaving at all.

Melo is not on a max deal.


He's due 53 mill over the next two years. It's as close as to the max you're going to get.


? Max deals have been and are continuing to go up. He's not "close to the max as you're going to get".
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#124 » by Billy Goat » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:00 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Agreed. But they need to get some serious value back and not just basically dump him.


Melo's on a max deal with a NTC. You're not getting value back there. He's a total sunk cost with total control on where he goes. The Knicks are staring at a buyout situation if he's not willing to budge on destinations or leaving at all.


Carmelo Anthony is not a sunk cost. That's just an idiotic statement. Buyout? Why on earth would the Knicks buy him out? Because they're morons? Anthony not being Lebron James or the same guy from his peak doesn't mean he's absolute crap. He may not net great value but let's not get carried away to the other extreme.


Of course he's a sunk cost. Just because you think he has value doesnt make it true. Add on the fact he has a no trade and a kicker...you're basically staring into the abyss here the next two seasons. The Knicks are obviously not winning anything within the next two years if he stays. Getting other guys shots and opportunities is in the best interest of the team imo. He dominates the ball and doesnt do anything else really well other than take shots. This isnt something franchises are looking to deal for.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#125 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:10 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Greenie wrote:Melo is not on a max deal.


He's due 53 mill over the next two years. It's as close as to the max you're going to get.


? Max deals have been and are continuing to go up. He's not "close to the max as you're going to get".


For example, Mike Conley is currently making 26 million in the 1st year of his deal. Carmelo Anthony is making 24.5 mill in the 3rd year of his.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#126 » by Billy Goat » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:12 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
He's due 53 mill over the next two years. It's as close as to the max you're going to get.


? Max deals have been and are continuing to go up. He's not "close to the max as you're going to get".


For example, Mike Conley is currently making 26 million in the 1st year of his deal. Carmelo Anthony is making 24.5 mill in the 3rd year of his.


Melo will make 26 mill next year and 27 mill the following. I mean...other than Curry and maybe Blake who's going to approach that of the 2017 FA crop?
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#127 » by Dr. Detfink » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm

KnicksGod wrote:Your view of the bad contracts is extreme and I think incorrect. Noah is the only one that's bad and unmovable without significant assets, and the Knicks also have good contracts on the books as well. Two bad offsetting two good equals 4 average. That's the beauty of numbers.

You have to count rookie contracts as good contracts. So KP and Billy, O'Quinn, another lottery pick contract coming. Lance's is not that bad. Melo's is close to expiring or gone altogether.

Even Noah's will expire by the time KP is 24. It's not close to crippling but that's what you're saying.


The Melo contract is a bad contract because there is a no-trade clause. It's a huge reason why the Knicks will have to suffer through another season with Phil cryptically needling Melo.

The Lance Thomas contract is TERRIBLE. $6M with THREE more seasons, the final season is $7.5M for a 28 year old guy who isn't getting any better.

This is why the Knicks who are stuck with Hornacek, Noah, Melo, Thomas will have to exclusively depend on the draft for the next 3 seasons.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#128 » by KnicksGod » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:24 pm

Dr. Detfink wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:Your view of the bad contracts is extreme and I think incorrect. Noah is the only one that's bad and unmovable without significant assets, and the Knicks also have good contracts on the books as well. Two bad offsetting two good equals 4 average. That's the beauty of numbers.

You have to count rookie contracts as good contracts. So KP and Billy, O'Quinn, another lottery pick contract coming. Lance's is not that bad. Melo's is close to expiring or gone altogether.

Even Noah's will expire by the time KP is 24. It's not close to crippling but that's what you're saying.


The Melo contract is a bad contract because there is a no-trade clause. It's a huge reason why the Knicks will have to suffer through another season with Phil cryptically needling Melo.

The Lance Thomas contract is TERRIBLE. $6M with THREE more seasons, the final season is $7.5M for a 28 year old guy who isn't getting any better.

This is why the Knicks who are stuck with Hornacek, Noah, Melo, Thomas will have to exclusively depend on the draft for the next 3 seasons.


That $6M used to be like $4M under the old cap, less than the player average. Now maybe a lot of us don't think he's average. But what are we talking about, a million or two dollars?

Melo, I think he's gonzo.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#129 » by Sark » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 pm

Don't forget the trade kicker. That hits the other team's cap. It's essentially a max deal. How many teams have ~$25m in dead salary to trade, AND is a team Melo would accept?

I'd be fine with the buyout tbh if worse comes to worst. Basically I don't expect any value back for him, and nor should anyone else.
Greenie: Disagree. I think Tatum is going to be better than KP. I don't know about DSjr.

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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#130 » by Greenie » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:23 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
? Max deals have been and are continuing to go up. He's not "close to the max as you're going to get".


For example, Mike Conley is currently making 26 million in the 1st year of his deal. Carmelo Anthony is making 24.5 mill in the 3rd year of his.


Melo will make 26 mill next year and 27 mill the following. I mean...other than Curry and maybe Blake who's going to approach that of the 2017 FA crop?


Bradley Beal makes more than Melo.
You really don't understand what these new max deals look like do you? You're still looking at his yearly hit instead of the full contract. Melo is in year 3, not year 1. He's actually on a really solid deal. Noah just pulled damn near 20 from us.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#131 » by Marty McFly » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:31 pm

depends. if the celtics fall out of the top 3 for us to jump into the top 2, i'd offer them melo for their 4th pick. they'd probably laugh, but with brown and crowder in the fold, i don't know that jackson, tatum or dsj as bpa's make sense for them at that point. at least they can play melo at the 4.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#132 » by MaseInYourFace » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:36 pm

I'm still not sold on Ball. Y'all overrate the college game. A lot of it doesn't translate to NBA.
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Re: RE: Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#133 » by K-DOT » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:53 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
? Max deals have been and are continuing to go up. He's not "close to the max as you're going to get".


For example, Mike Conley is currently making 26 million in the 1st year of his deal. Carmelo Anthony is making 24.5 mill in the 3rd year of his.


Melo will make 26 mill next year and 27 mill the following. I mean...other than Curry and maybe Blake who's going to approach that of the 2017 FA crop?

Hill, Holiday, Hayward, Lowry, Durant off the top of my head

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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#134 » by spree8 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:55 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:I'm still not sold on Ball. Y'all overrate the college game. A lot of it doesn't translate to NBA.




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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#135 » by Bill Pidto » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:00 am

Marty McFly wrote:depends. if the celtics fall out of the top 3 for us to jump into the top 2, i'd offer them melo for their 4th pick. they'd probably laugh, but with brown and crowder in the fold, i don't know that jackson, tatum or dsj as bpa's make sense for them at that point. at least they can play melo at the 4.


Stop lying to yourself.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#136 » by Greenie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:05 am

MaseInYourFace wrote:I'm still not sold on Ball. Y'all overrate the college game. A lot of it doesn't translate to NBA.

True. It's all a crap shoot though. Hope for the best and expect the worst.
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#137 » by Sprewell4Three » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:09 am

MaseInYourFace wrote:I'm still not sold on Ball. Y'all overrate the college game. A lot of it doesn't translate to NBA.


What in his game is not translatable?
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#138 » by spree8 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:11 am

Yo can we get a dislike button on this site already?
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#139 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:13 am

For the record, I do think ball will be a really good pro. He has the NBA game now, wont need to much learning curve.
If winning matters, the role shouldn't.....the results should.

The ...02% of the fanbse be like...http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1542565&start=140#start_here
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Re: Hypothetical: Knicks get Ball 

Post#140 » by MaseInYourFace » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:15 am

Ball has talent for sure but there are definitely questions there for him as an NBA player. If ya'll don't see that you are blind. He has a weird shot. For every Kevin Martin and REggie Miller most guys with weird shot mechanics like that struggle in the league. He's a good not great athlete, poor free throw shooter, has no in between offense, and struggles finishing in the paint. Yes he is an amazing passer but with guards its different, you gotta have some of these things I've mentioned to be successful in this league as a guard. In other positions you could get away with being weak in those areas, in the nba now if you are weak in those areas you are gonna end up being a backup.
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