moocow007 wrote:Amsterdam wrote:moocow007 wrote:
? The system is based on having some of the best players to ever play the game and a coach that knows how to coach it. The Knicks have neither of those. If it was just about "passing" then a lot of other teams would be running it. It's not "just about passing". It's a system that has very specific requirements and that is extremely difficult to build a team on and run. That's why no one else runs it. The "elements of the Triangle" is bupkiss...the Triangle has elements of traditional basketball in it and that's the elements that other systems have.
Dude, you really must think everyone here are knuckleheads and believe everything you post about system basketball.
Not sure what your issue is (other than maybe because you are still upset that I don't despise Carmelo Anthony?) but ok...
So the Triangle isn't based on having some of the best basketball players to ever play the game and a coach that knows how to coach it?
Then why doesn't anyone else run it? It won 11 championships did it not? Why would no other team want to run it if it was that great?
The Knicks have neither (some of the greatest basketball players to ever play and a coach that knows how to coach it)?
Do you see either that I don't see? Maybe my eyesight is bad and the team is a lot better than the one that I see?
If it was just about "passing" then a lot of other teams would be running it. It's not "just about passing". It's a system that has very specific requirements and that is extremely difficult to build a team on and run.
So the Triangle is just all about passing and does not have very specific requirements (type of players, type of team, type of mindsight, specific skills, etc.) and is easy to build a team on and run? That's what you're saying right? So yeah if you believe this then you answered in the affirmative to the 1st question you asked me as it relates to you in particular.
That's why no one else runs it. The "elements of the Triangle" is bupkiss...the Triangle has elements of traditional basketball in it and that's the elements that other systems have.
The Triangle isn't a system that was created out of a blackhole. Tex Winter, aka the originator of the Triangle Offense, took aspects of other systems that he was familiar with and that was in wide use and incorporated into what came to be known as the Triangle. Those are the "elements" that the Triangle and every other successful system runs. It doesn't mean that they are running the Triangle.
On a related note, the over clichéd phrase ("running elements of the Triangle") is just that and it does little to argue for the Triangle as a system that should be preferred...especially from the Knicks point of view...nor as a tool to defend Jackson (which it often is used for).
I'm not sure what you are not understanding.
Hey Yo,
You think Shaq knows alittle about success using the Triangle? I mean just a little more than your assessment?
SPORTS
Shaq blames Knicks players for failing Phil Jackson’s blueprint
By Marc Berman
March 21, 2017 | 3:42pm
NY Post
SALT LAKE CITY — Knicks president Phil Jackson has been accused of being a fool for insisting on employing the triangle offense, but the host of “Shaqtin’ A Fool” credits his three Lakers titles to the system.
Shaquille O’Neal, in a stout defense of Jackson’s ridiculed offense, said Knicks players need to stop being “stubborn,’’ break old habits and move the basketball. He said the triangle didn’t succeed in Chicago and Los Angeles just because of Jackson’s four future Hall of Fame players.
“I have three championships because of the triangle,’’ O’Neal said late Monday in Los Angeles after calling the Knicks-Clippers game for TNT alongside ex-Knicks coach Derek Fisher.
“You always hear people say, of course the triangle works with Mike [Michael Jordan], Scottie [Pippen], Shaq and Kobe [Bryant], which is true. But if you look at all our games, it was the others who propelled us to the next level.”
In what sounded like a knock on Carmelo Anthony’s isolation style, O’Neal implored the Knicks players to buy in. Multiple Knicks across the past three seasons have griped the read-and-react system is too complicated. Anthony detests it so much, he won’t say the word triangle.
“It works,’’ O’Neal said. “When you’re a player, you’re used to doing something one way, and you bring in a system, a lot of guys don’t like to give up their habits. But the triangle, the ball can’t stop. It can’t stop.”
O’Neal hosts the blooper segment “Shaqtin’ A Fool” on TNT. The Knicks, who face the Jazz on Wednesday at Vivint Smart Home Arena, have been something of a joke during Jackson’s reign, falling to 27-43 with Monday’s 114-105 loss to the Clippers. But O’Neal pointed out the Knicks’ second unit cut a 25-point deficit after three quarters to eight points in the final two minutes with Anthony sitting.
“If you look at how the second team runs the triangle, guys who don’t have a lot of experience in the game and a lot of habits, they ran a lot of it late in the fourth quarter and got a couple of backdoor plays,’’ O’Neal said. “It definitely does work. Look at the guys, when Phil put this team together, I was liking it: Porzingis, Carmelo, Rose, [Joakim] Noah. I said, ‘OK, it’s going to work if they embrace the triangle. I like it.’ But again, the ball can never stop.’’
Jackson created a firestorm in December when he told CBS Sports Network the triangle’s flow is hurt by Anthony’s ball-stopping. Anthony took it as a major affront rather than constructive criticism from a man with two titles as player and 11 as head coach. Rarely willing to pass to cutters, O’Neal said he used to be that ball-stopper, on the low block.
“Guys are stubborn — it took us awhile to break it, too,’’ O’Neal said. “When we first started, we were doing terrible. I had to look at the mirror and say, ‘OK, I was probably one of the main problems.’ Because I like to get the ball and tell everyone to move out of the way and get to work, so I had to look at the mirror and say, ‘Let me try it.’ It became easier. I get it. [Guys] cutting, and it opened up for me and made it easier for me.’’
Since getting fired by Jackson, Fisher has cautioned against teaching the triangle in the modern era. Fisher continued to lament being forced to run the system in a Vertical podcast Tuesday, saying, “I didn’t come into it thinking Phil was going to demand that this is the only way that as the coach you can play with this team.’’
O’Neal thinks his former Lakers mate, of all people, should understand the system’s equal-opportunity merits.
“Even with Jordan, my favorite clip with him is playing Utah, and Michael said, ‘I keep getting doubled,’ ’’ O’Neal said. “Steve Kerr said, ‘Kick it to me, I’ll be open.’ So I have three championships because of the triangle and also because of Derek Fisher, ‘Big Shot Bob’ [Robert Horry] and Rick Fox. Because of the triangle, they were able to be involved in the offense. When you got a guy who holds the ball, nobody’s moving the ball, everything is out of whack.’’
Jackson hasn’t found a head coach to make it work. O’Neal said one potential reason is triangle pioneer Tex Winter is not around, as he was in Chicago and Los Angeles. Winter, who turned 95 last month, is in poor health.
Does Jackson need to be the coach to win with the triangle?
“I’m not going to say that and diss [Jeff] Hornacek,’’ O’Neal said. “But when we were playing, Phil never did the talking. It was Tex Winter. Tex always preached it. Kurt Rambis is very knowledgeable of the triangle.”
The former Lakers great hasn’t given up hope that Jackson will save the Knicks’ sinking ship.
“He’s not used to it,’’ O’Neal said. “He’s definitely taking a beating, definitely have to make changes this summer. He’s a strong guy. You’re not going to really hurt his feelings. Just another chapter and challenge in his life. When you’re dealing with certain people, everybody has to be on the same page.”
