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It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2)

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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#361 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:51 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
would we have been better this year with Lopez? answer that.

Yes.

We would have been better defensively and on the glass.


Still a treadmill team. Who cares.

The trade, on it's on merits, was good. Freed the Knicks from extra salary years of Calderon and Lopez. Probably made them a little worse (in the NBA, unless you are a top 6 team, this is muy bueno)

Signing Noah wrecked the positives. But that is a different action. Also shows the team didn't have enough of a handle on WHG and KOQ's abilities.

A question was asked and answered.

If KP takes a step, how is that treadmill?
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#362 » by JohnWillow » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:53 pm

Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I didn't think I was bragging about anything. I mean at worst it gave Rose a shot to see what he had for one year. Got out of the extra year of Calderon contract. And got a second round pick in the deal. I absolutely would not brag about the deal, didn't think I was. However I don't think it was a bad deal either.

Lopez has had two great games don't get me wrong. That however shouldn't outweigh the year he had. Hopefully we are able to bring back Holiday on a somewhat friendly deal and take a shot at a kid in the second round.

I will obviously not be pleased if they bring back Rose, thats for sure. 1 year experiment that failed.


My take on that trade:
Got us out of the year of Calderon
Flipped Lopez (A good, but not great C) for an expiring (Rose) getting out 2 years of his deal (which like half the board hated at first)
A chance to kick the tires on Rose

Taken by itself, this is a pretty good move, BUT

Totally negated by signing Noah to a a) large deal and b) long deal

*edit - or was it a year of Lopez's deal, just like Calderon? In any event, that deal shed a good deal of Salary a year early. I think that in and of itself makes it a good deal. Again, totally negated by the Noah deal, and even to an extent the CLee deal, as he's not a difference making guard.

Also, up for criticism is that the trade allowed us to kick the tires on Rose, and same with Jennings 1 year, but now leaves the team with NO PG's, though of course the non long term commitment is good. Sort of forces Knicks to PG in the draft though, and while it's hard to knock the idea of pairing a quality young PG with KP for years, it's a roll of the dice one will be there and the team will be bad enough to get one (maybe it was, or may have just missed being bad enough). Still, best for a team to be comfortably in "Take BPA" every time.



Jose was expiring. We were getting out of him regardless.

Lopez's contract was just fine and could have been moved later on by itself to a center needy team since we still would have had Willy and O'Quinn.

We could have done EVERYTHING we did with the exception of Noah and been a much better team.

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee
KP/N'Dour
Melo/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Baker/Sasha
Jennings(/Jose/Grant

Hell, we could have signed BOTH Bev and Jennings to compete for the starting job with Jose and Grant still here.

We could have taken our money and spent it on Beverly, Lee and Booker while bringing Willy over.

The goal should have been to become a better defensive team with better shooters while gaining some depth on the bench.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing.

My team:

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn
KP/Trevor Booker/?
Melo/Thomas/?
Lee/Garrett Temple/?
Beverly/Grant/Jose


Those three question marks would have been for dudes like Baker.


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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#363 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:55 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
ok. So we had Lopez last year and won 32 games and Lopez had a much better year last year than he did this year.

So can you quantify what type of impact Lopez would of had? Do you believe we would have been fighting for a 8th seed?

Just trying to get a feel on what type of impact Lopez would of had on wins and losses.


Melo got injured because of the ref vs Celtics and Knicks then was 0.500 team with 45 or something like that games played in a season. RoLo was perfect for KP and KP was perfect for RoLo in the frontcourt. If Knicks would keep Rolo this year the chemistry would be there and it would be easily a play-off team this year.



Again, I liked Rolo, but how much of the Knicks record was a strength of schedule thing and how much was it the infamous trip? That deep into the season, I don't think it would be strength of schedule. And while Melo getting tripped was kind of fluky, I can't shake that he's been more prone to nicks and bumps that make him miss a little time or degrade his play.

That's why you work on having depth.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#364 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm

Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I didn't think I was bragging about anything. I mean at worst it gave Rose a shot to see what he had for one year. Got out of the extra year of Calderon contract. And got a second round pick in the deal. I absolutely would not brag about the deal, didn't think I was. However I don't think it was a bad deal either.

Lopez has had two great games don't get me wrong. That however shouldn't outweigh the year he had. Hopefully we are able to bring back Holiday on a somewhat friendly deal and take a shot at a kid in the second round.

I will obviously not be pleased if they bring back Rose, thats for sure. 1 year experiment that failed.


My take on that trade:
Got us out of the year of Calderon
Flipped Lopez (A good, but not great C) for an expiring (Rose) getting out 2 years of his deal (which like half the board hated at first)
A chance to kick the tires on Rose

Taken by itself, this is a pretty good move, BUT

Totally negated by signing Noah to a a) large deal and b) long deal

*edit - or was it a year of Lopez's deal, just like Calderon? In any event, that deal shed a good deal of Salary a year early. I think that in and of itself makes it a good deal. Again, totally negated by the Noah deal, and even to an extent the CLee deal, as he's not a difference making guard.

Also, up for criticism is that the trade allowed us to kick the tires on Rose, and same with Jennings 1 year, but now leaves the team with NO PG's, though of course the non long term commitment is good. Sort of forces Knicks to PG in the draft though, and while it's hard to knock the idea of pairing a quality young PG with KP for years, it's a roll of the dice one will be there and the team will be bad enough to get one (maybe it was, or may have just missed being bad enough). Still, best for a team to be comfortably in "Take BPA" every time.



Jose was expiring. We were getting out of him regardless.

Lopez's contract was just fine and could have been moved later on by itself to a center needy team since we still would have had Willy and O'Quinn.

We could have done EVERYTHING we did with the exception of Noah and been a much better team.

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee
KP/N'Dour
Melo/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Baker/Sasha
Jennings(/Jose/Grant

Hell, we could have signed BOTH Bev and Jennings to compete for the starting job with Jose and Grant still here.

We could have taken our money and spent it on Beverly, Lee and Booker while bringing Willy over.

The goal should have been to become a better defensive team with better shooters while gaining some depth on the bench.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing.

My team:

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn
KP/Trevor Booker/?
Melo/Thomas/?
Lee/Garrett Temple/?
Beverly/Grant/Jose


Those three question marks would have been for dudes like Baker.


Those deals are OK. Maybe we could have dealt Lopez, maybe not. Funny what a difference two years makes when so much of this board was crying over how overpaid Lopez was.

Plus, you are assuming Lopez nets a pick, but the Knicks would have to take back salary. Well, hopefully whoever wanted/needed him in your hypothetical scenario and was willing to trade a #1, ALSO just happened to have 14+million in expiring contracts laying around.

But, again, this is just the deal by itself. Could other actions have happened? Sure. But then again, some of the same actions you have above could have happened if NO NOAH.

The deal was ok. NOAH was horrific. Sorry if Phil can't get a smidge of credit even while getting bashed. If that's they way it's going to be, then: Melo is vastly overrated. :D
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#365 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
FutureKnicksGM wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
would we have been better this year with Lopez? answer that.


I like how that's two posts now you haven't answered a simple question :lol: .

Hell yes we would have been better with Lopez.

Our biggest problem was defense. Go compare our defense last year with Calderon, Afflalo & Melo on the perimeter (which literally may be one of the least athletic trios in NBA history on the perimeter) with our defense this year. That's all due to having Rolo as the back line vs Noah and his layup line.

The fact that that is even a question ....


ok so how good would we have been? A playoff team?


I say we are definitely in the race for a low seed playoff spot. CHI wouldn't make it with no center (they knew Jo was washed) and D-Rose not letting Jimmy be the man in CHI. You know we played 500 ball before Melo got tripped by that ref, and that's with your boy Jose at the point, and Fisher costing us games with his rotations.

Who's better Rolo or Rose? I got Rolo as a starting role player. DRose as a instant offense no D 6th man.

How many games do we win with no Melo this season? 50? I've seen you post hundreds of times that he was the one leading the tank with his no D, ball holding ways.
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Lopez isn't better than Noah
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#366 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:57 pm

Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:
Melo got injured because of the ref vs Celtics and Knicks then was 0.500 team with 45 or something like that games played in a season. RoLo was perfect for KP and KP was perfect for RoLo in the frontcourt. If Knicks would keep Rolo this year the chemistry would be there and it would be easily a play-off team this year.



Again, I liked Rolo, but how much of the Knicks record was a strength of schedule thing and how much was it the infamous trip? That deep into the season, I don't think it would be strength of schedule. And while Melo getting tripped was kind of fluky, I can't shake that he's been more prone to nicks and bumps that make him miss a little time or degrade his play.

That's why you work on having depth.


That is the "Pre dealing Lopez team" so not sure what options were available yet (that year) for depth.
It absolutely should have been addressed last offseason, where Noah's deal could have brought in 2 good players, maybe three with a bit of luck.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#367 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:58 pm

The scary part of the Rose deal is that if he did pan out it may have been even worse (resigning him to a big deal)....we still may even resign him.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#368 » by K P 6 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Why is KP making visits to the NBAPA lollllll KP use to be open and honest now he's all coded like Melo.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#369 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:03 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
My take on that trade:
Got us out of the year of Calderon
Flipped Lopez (A good, but not great C) for an expiring (Rose) getting out 2 years of his deal (which like half the board hated at first)
A chance to kick the tires on Rose

Taken by itself, this is a pretty good move, BUT

Totally negated by signing Noah to a a) large deal and b) long deal

*edit - or was it a year of Lopez's deal, just like Calderon? In any event, that deal shed a good deal of Salary a year early. I think that in and of itself makes it a good deal. Again, totally negated by the Noah deal, and even to an extent the CLee deal, as he's not a difference making guard.

Also, up for criticism is that the trade allowed us to kick the tires on Rose, and same with Jennings 1 year, but now leaves the team with NO PG's, though of course the non long term commitment is good. Sort of forces Knicks to PG in the draft though, and while it's hard to knock the idea of pairing a quality young PG with KP for years, it's a roll of the dice one will be there and the team will be bad enough to get one (maybe it was, or may have just missed being bad enough). Still, best for a team to be comfortably in "Take BPA" every time.



Jose was expiring. We were getting out of him regardless.

Lopez's contract was just fine and could have been moved later on by itself to a center needy team since we still would have had Willy and O'Quinn.

We could have done EVERYTHING we did with the exception of Noah and been a much better team.

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee
KP/N'Dour
Melo/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Baker/Sasha
Jennings(/Jose/Grant

Hell, we could have signed BOTH Bev and Jennings to compete for the starting job with Jose and Grant still here.

We could have taken our money and spent it on Beverly, Lee and Booker while bringing Willy over.

The goal should have been to become a better defensive team with better shooters while gaining some depth on the bench.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing.

My team:

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn
KP/Trevor Booker/?
Melo/Thomas/?
Lee/Garrett Temple/?
Beverly/Grant/Jose


Those three question marks would have been for dudes like Baker.


Those deals are OK. Maybe we could have dealt Lopez, maybe not. Funny what a difference two years makes when so much of this board was crying over how overpaid Lopez was.

Plus, you are assuming Lopez nets a pick, but the Knicks would have to take back salary. Well, hopefully whoever wanted/needed him in your hypothetical scenario and was willing to trade a #1, ALSO just happened to have 14+million in expiring contracts laying around.

But, again, this is just the deal by itself. Could other actions have happened? Sure. But then again, some of the same actions you have above could have happened if NO NOAH.

The deal was ok. NOAH was horrific. Sorry if Phil can't get a smidge of credit even while getting bashed. If that's they way it's going to be, then: Melo is vastly overrated. :D


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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#370 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
I say we are definitely in the race for a low seed playoff spot. CHI wouldn't make it with no center (they knew Jo was washed) and D-Rose not letting Jimmy be the man in CHI. You know we played 500 ball before Melo got tripped by that ref, and that's with your boy Jose at the point, and Fisher costing us games with his rotations.

Who's better Rolo or Rose? I got Rolo as a starting role player. DRose as a instant offense no D 6th man.

How many games do we win with no Melo this season? 50? I've seen you post hundreds of times that he was the one leading the tank with his no D, ball holding ways.


first you know Melo loved that trade correct? He said that was exactly the type of trade Phil needed to do.

I never has said Melo is a net negative he just isn't the type of player this team needs. He gave up at the end of season playing no defense and giving no effort there is a difference. He 33 going onto 34 and declining. He doesn't effect wins and losses at this point in his career. Can he be a good offensive complimentary piece to a playoff team sure...but that isn't going to be here.

Would you have rather been fighting for an 8th seed or be in a position to draft a top rookie. Indirectly we are in this position and we should be happy.

ROLO isn't a needle mover. He had a couple good games and this sparked up like how in the world could you do this PHIL??? It was a low risk move to help us compete. It either was going to work out (rose play better than he did) or fail and we get a good pick.

Buzz said it best we were just treadmilling if we kept Lopez...
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#371 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm

K P 6 wrote:Why is KP making visits to the NBAPA lollllll KP use to be open and honest now he's all coded like Melo.

Stop.

Maybe he's fed up with Phil, maybe he's not.

Maybe this is who he is, maybe it's not.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#372 » by shtolky » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm

When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#373 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:06 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
My take on that trade:
Got us out of the year of Calderon
Flipped Lopez (A good, but not great C) for an expiring (Rose) getting out 2 years of his deal (which like half the board hated at first)
A chance to kick the tires on Rose

Taken by itself, this is a pretty good move, BUT

Totally negated by signing Noah to a a) large deal and b) long deal

*edit - or was it a year of Lopez's deal, just like Calderon? In any event, that deal shed a good deal of Salary a year early. I think that in and of itself makes it a good deal. Again, totally negated by the Noah deal, and even to an extent the CLee deal, as he's not a difference making guard.

Also, up for criticism is that the trade allowed us to kick the tires on Rose, and same with Jennings 1 year, but now leaves the team with NO PG's, though of course the non long term commitment is good. Sort of forces Knicks to PG in the draft though, and while it's hard to knock the idea of pairing a quality young PG with KP for years, it's a roll of the dice one will be there and the team will be bad enough to get one (maybe it was, or may have just missed being bad enough). Still, best for a team to be comfortably in "Take BPA" every time.


Why did we need cap last year? Who was the difference maker out there? Was KD coming? Why is it a good move to create cap for a year when there was no difference maker to sign, while in the process losing your starting center?
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#374 » by ChaosHamster » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:07 pm

Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:Why is KP making visits to the NBAPA lollllll KP use to be open and honest now he's all coded like Melo.

Stop.

Maybe he's fed up with Phil, maybe he's not.

Maybe this is who he is, maybe it's not.


:lol:
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#375 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:08 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:The scary part of the Rose deal is that if he did pan out it may have been even worse (resigning him to a big deal)....we still may even resign him.


Wasn't there a 60 plus page thread saying we should extend him? lol.
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Lopez isn't better than Noah
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#376 » by Slicin N Dicin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:08 pm

Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I didn't think I was bragging about anything. I mean at worst it gave Rose a shot to see what he had for one year. Got out of the extra year of Calderon contract. And got a second round pick in the deal. I absolutely would not brag about the deal, didn't think I was. However I don't think it was a bad deal either.

Lopez has had two great games don't get me wrong. That however shouldn't outweigh the year he had. Hopefully we are able to bring back Holiday on a somewhat friendly deal and take a shot at a kid in the second round.

I will obviously not be pleased if they bring back Rose, thats for sure. 1 year experiment that failed.


My take on that trade:
Got us out of the year of Calderon
Flipped Lopez (A good, but not great C) for an expiring (Rose) getting out 2 years of his deal (which like half the board hated at first)
A chance to kick the tires on Rose

Taken by itself, this is a pretty good move, BUT

Totally negated by signing Noah to a a) large deal and b) long deal

*edit - or was it a year of Lopez's deal, just like Calderon? In any event, that deal shed a good deal of Salary a year early. I think that in and of itself makes it a good deal. Again, totally negated by the Noah deal, and even to an extent the CLee deal, as he's not a difference making guard.

Also, up for criticism is that the trade allowed us to kick the tires on Rose, and same with Jennings 1 year, but now leaves the team with NO PG's, though of course the non long term commitment is good. Sort of forces Knicks to PG in the draft though, and while it's hard to knock the idea of pairing a quality young PG with KP for years, it's a roll of the dice one will be there and the team will be bad enough to get one (maybe it was, or may have just missed being bad enough). Still, best for a team to be comfortably in "Take BPA" every time.



Jose was expiring. We were getting out of him regardless.

Lopez's contract was just fine and could have been moved later on by itself to a center needy team since we still would have had Willy and O'Quinn.

We could have done EVERYTHING we did with the exception of Noah and been a much better team.

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee
KP/N'Dour
Melo/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Baker/Sasha
Jennings(/Jose/Grant

Hell, we could have signed BOTH Bev and Jennings to compete for the starting job with Jose and Grant still here.

We could have taken our money and spent it on Beverly, Lee and Booker while bringing Willy over.

The goal should have been to become a better defensive team with better shooters while gaining some depth on the bench.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing.

My team:

Lopez/Willy/O'Quinn
KP/Trevor Booker/?
Melo/Thomas/?
Lee/Garrett Temple/?
Beverly/Grant/Jose


Those three question marks would have been for dudes like Baker.


I could get behind that lineup...big fan of Bev, think he'd have been great to have the point, especially based on the bolded above.
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#377 » by FutureKnicksGM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:10 pm

shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.


When's Phil going to lead us to a .500 season?
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Lopez isn't better than Noah
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#378 » by JohnWillow » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:11 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.


When's Phil going to lead us to a .500 season?


tbh this. :roll:
Vivek be like.

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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#379 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:13 pm

shtolky wrote:When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.
BAT 18 - Bullets
C: Chandler|Bertans|Humphries
F: Randle|Beasley|Scott
F: Simmons|Thomas|Jones
G: Robinson III|Luwawu-Cabarrot|Temple
G: Curry|Dunn|Cook
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Re: It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2) 

Post#380 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:18 pm

why would anyone want a .500 season? You don't want to be in NBA purgatory. We needed this whether you like it or not.
BAT 18.0 Bulls:

C -Willie Cauley-Stein/Willie Hernangomez/Cristiano Felicio
PF -LeBron James/Lauri Markkanen/DJ Wilson
SF -Joe Ingles/Terrence Ferguson/James Jones
SG -Avery Bradley/Manu Ginobli/DeAndre Liggins
PG -Malik Monk/Bryn Forbes/Shabazz Napier

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