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Did we misread Dantoni?

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Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#1 » by poeman » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:47 pm

I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.

I was calling for Pringles to get fired, I was at the front of the line...I hated his LEGGO coaching, especially on defense.

However, lets focus on the Melo trade back in 2011...I know the Melo trade finalized on Feb 10th, 2011...
Based on our schedule, we went through a rough patch after the big win against Miami. Amare was playing MVP ball though.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2010_2011_knicks.htm

Do you think long term wise we would have found success with the guys we had or it's true what they say about the Basketball Gods...They hate us, so we would still stick if the Melo trade did not happen?
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#2 » by KnickLeDime » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:49 pm

I don't know about Mike but...I've been preaching for a LONNNGGG time that Knicks problems are rarely coaching. How many more coaches do we have to go through to understand the Wooden couldn't win with this **** roster.

People now **** on Horny...who's he supposed to coach? We've had like 10 coaches in the last 12 years *hyperbole

Maybe it's not the coaching stupid...
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#3 » by poeman » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:52 pm

KnickLeDime wrote:I don't know about Mike but...I've been preaching for a LONNNGGG time that Knicks problems are rarely coaching. How many more coaches do we have to go through to understand the Wooden couldn't win with this **** roster.

People now **** on Horny...who's he supposed to coach? We've had like 10 coaches in the last 12 years *hyperbole

Maybe it's not the coaching stupid...


I actually like Hornacek, he just is not coaching the way he needs to and it seems he is okay with that. Phil is controlling the situation from a distance and he has guys like Kurt Rambis preaching triangle nonsense.

Only the Zen can teach it right, these players dont want to hear about some triangle from a coach who never played/taught the triangle (horns) and Rambis who is a bum as a coach.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#4 » by moocow007 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:54 pm

poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.

I was calling for Pringles to get fired, I was at the front of the line...I hated his LEGGO coaching, especially on defense.

However, lets focus on the Melo trade back in 2011...I know the Melo trade finalized on Feb 10th, 2011...
Based on our schedule, we went through a rough patch after the big win against Miami. Amare was playing MVP ball though.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2010_2011_knicks.htm

Do you think long term wise we would have found success with the guys we had or it's true what they say about the Basketball Gods...They hate us, so we would still stick if the Melo trade did not happen?


None of the guys we had back then (before the Carmelo trade) were James Harden level is the problem.

The problem isn't about D'Antoni or Anthony being the right choice, it's about fit. D'Antoni proved that if you give him the players that can play in his system that the team can be successful. Anthony proved that if you surround him the the players that can fit his style that team can be successful. The Knicks problem is trying to fit Anthony and D'Antoni together and putting neither in a situation to be successful.

Team build is extremely underrated. Surprising since that was by far the biggest problem Isiah Thomas had. It wasn't drafting. It wasn't technically getting the most talent in a trade. At the end of the day, Isiah Thomas' problem was the sheer and utter inability to build a team where the coach fit the players, the players fit the coach...everyone fit each other. So you'd expect Knick fans of anyone to see that.

Every successful team in the history of the NBA has been successful for a number of reasons but the biggest reason is because they fit extremely well as a team. Sure having the top talents in the league also is critical but if you cannot fit together and play as a team you aren't going to be able to win consistently and persistently.

As far as offense-centric or defense-centric, fast paced or slow paced, full court or half court...there is no ideal system. Most important thing is having everyone fit AND having elite talent. That wasn't the Knicks before or during Anthony, before, during or since D'Antoni. Slow paced defensive centric teams have won championships just as fast paced offensive centric teams and every type of team in between.

I'm sure if the Knicks had James Harden instead of Carmelo Anthony when D'antoni was here that things would have been great. Why? Because it would have been a much better fit. But MVP types like Harden don't grow on trees and you actually have to be a very skilled and astute front office to get one (see Why is it so critical to have a top notch front office?). Heck and even with MVP types, if the system doesn't fit (see Houston last year) you get called a chump and overrated (see Harden last year)
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#5 » by JBreezeNY » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Amare was gonna break down so it doesn't even matter.


If Melo trade doesn't go down we were gonna go after Deron. Deron right now is a role player coming off the bench for the Cavs.

We were fu*ked either way.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#6 » by moocow007 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:01 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:Amare was gonna break down so it doesn't even matter.


That and Stoudemire wasn't a fit with Anthony as both guys operated in the same space and had the same unbalanced game.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#7 » by JBreezeNY » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:05 pm

moocow007 wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:Amare was gonna break down so it doesn't even matter.


That and Stoudemire wasn't a fit with Anthony as both guys operated in the same space and had the same unbalanced game.

Yup exactly.

We should've played the Lebron sweepstakes better. We don't get Lebron Bosh or Wade? Cool.

Save that money & don't waste it on uninsured knees.

And then we can't even amnesty him?

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#8 » by K P 6 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:16 pm

Melo didnt mesh with his style and we didnt allow him to run his offense with the type of players we had. Only team Melo would of meshed with was the Hawks when they hd Mike woodson.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#9 » by Rotten Apple » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:20 pm

Mike was unable to adjust. Same happened in LA with even more talent.

But in Houston where has that lead guard, Harden is Nash on steroids and matched with guys who don't need the ball then you have something he can work with.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#10 » by Knicks93 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm

Don't think we misread, we thought he was a good coach. Melo just refused to change for his system, same thing with Phil and the triangle now. We chose Melo over Mike
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#11 » by JoeypopsNY » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:40 pm

if we keep one coach and everybody knows he is the boss we won't have a problem, if we have players act lke hey we loose ill get a raise and coach will get fired we are going to continue to suck
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#12 » by NYKAL » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:48 pm

poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.

I was calling for Pringles to get fired, I was at the front of the line...I hated his LEGGO coaching, especially on defense.

However, lets focus on the Melo trade back in 2011...I know the Melo trade finalized on Feb 10th, 2011...
Based on our schedule, we went through a rough patch after the big win against Miami. Amare was playing MVP ball though.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2010_2011_knicks.htm

Do you think long term wise we would have found success with the guys we had or it's true what they say about the Basketball Gods...They hate us, so we would still stick if the Melo trade did not happen?



maybe, maybe not. Remember, Steph had pretty bad ankle issues his 1st few years. I don't think he would have had the time or learning curve he's had with GS. Plus, this is the east, no matter what formula you use, you better play defense too.

Amare got lazy and took such a laid back approach to Melo's arrival it seemed like Amare wasn't even on the court in terms of effectiveness. He was like, you do the heavy lifting Melo and I'll show up every now and then and be "phenomenal". Those few months prior to the playoffs was the only time he was Healthy alongside Melo.

Also, even if the Melo trade hadn't happened, our defense was still going to be exposed. Amare was putting up big numbers so, no one was caring about his lack of defense as long as he blocked a shot here and there but, once the postseason started, he'd have been exposed.

I think the team WOULD have been better in the long run just because they were familiar and developed chemistry. The Melo trade left too many holes to fill for it to really be an even comparison. Plus, every season with Melo, NY chose to change the gameplan or new coach. The lack of consistency made it near impossible for the team to succeed. Heck, the team couldn't even grow together considering the constant roster turnovers.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#13 » by Greenie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:49 pm

moocow007 wrote:
poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.

I was calling for Pringles to get fired, I was at the front of the line...I hated his LEGGO coaching, especially on defense.

However, lets focus on the Melo trade back in 2011...I know the Melo trade finalized on Feb 10th, 2011...
Based on our schedule, we went through a rough patch after the big win against Miami. Amare was playing MVP ball though.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2010_2011_knicks.htm

Do you think long term wise we would have found success with the guys we had or it's true what they say about the Basketball Gods...They hate us, so we would still stick if the Melo trade did not happen?


None of the guys we had back then (before the Carmelo trade) were James Harden level is the problem.

The problem isn't about D'Antoni or Anthony being the right choice, it's about fit. D'Antoni proved that if you give him the players that can play in his system that the team can be successful. Anthony proved that if you surround him the the players that can fit his style that team can be successful. The Knicks problem is trying to fit Anthony and D'Antoni together and putting neither in a situation to be successful.

Team build is extremely underrated. Surprising since that was by far the biggest problem Isiah Thomas had. It wasn't drafting. It wasn't technically getting the most talent in a trade. At the end of the day, Isiah Thomas' problem was the sheer and utter inability to build a team where the coach fit the players, the players fit the coach...everyone fit each other. So you'd expect Knick fans of anyone to see that.

Every successful team in the history of the NBA has been successful for a number of reasons but the biggest reason is because they fit extremely well as a team. Sure having the top talents in the league also is critical but if you cannot fit together and play as a team you aren't going to be able to win consistently and persistently.

As far as offense-centric or defense-centric, fast paced or slow paced, full court or half court...there is no ideal system. Most important thing is having everyone fit AND having elite talent. That wasn't the Knicks before or during Anthony, before, during or since D'Antoni. Slow paced defensive centric teams have won championships just as fast paced offensive centric teams and every type of team in between.

I'm sure if the Knicks had James Harden instead of Carmelo Anthony when D'antoni was here that things would have been great. Why? Because it would have been a much better fit. But MVP types like Harden don't grow on trees and you actually have to be a very skilled and astute front office to get one (see Why is it so critical to have a top notch front office?). Heck and even with MVP types, if the system doesn't fit (see Houston last year) you get called a chump and overrated (see Harden last year)

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#14 » by Greenie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:51 pm

Knicks93 wrote:Don't think we misread, we thought he was a good coach. Melo just refused to change for his system, same thing with Phil and the triangle now. We chose Melo over Mike

Once again with this.

Mike was here before Melo.

I'm pretty sure D'Antoni never coached Melo for a full 82 game season. Stop this nonsense. Mike was on the verge of getting fired well before Melo was a Knick.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#15 » by Greenie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:52 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:Amare was gonna break down so it doesn't even matter.


That and Stoudemire wasn't a fit with Anthony as both guys operated in the same space and had the same unbalanced game.

Yup exactly.

We should've played the Lebron sweepstakes better. We don't get Lebron Bosh or Wade? Cool.

Save that money & don't waste it on uninsured knees.

And then we can't even amnesty him?

Bumbaclot...

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#16 » by NYKAL » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:53 pm

like others have said, He' a system coach that needed the right players. Never had them in NY but, really good coaches adapt to their players which, is something he could not do. Imo, you're a gimmick coach if you can only coach 1system.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#17 » by Capn'O » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:53 pm

moocow007 wrote:At the end of the day, Isiah Thomas' problem was the sheer and utter inability to build a team where the coach fit the players, the players fit the coach...everyone fit each other. So you'd expect Knick fans of anyone to see that.


Or the GMs :lol:
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#18 » by NYKAL » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:53 pm

NYKAL wrote:like others have said, He' a system coach that needed the right players. Never had them in NY but, really good coaches adapt to their players which, is something he could not do. Imo, you're a gimmick coach if you can only coach 1system. Just like our gimmick GM
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#19 » by Knicks93 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:54 pm

Greenie wrote:
Knicks93 wrote:Don't think we misread, we thought he was a good coach. Melo just refused to change for his system, same thing with Phil and the triangle now. We chose Melo over Mike

Once again with this.

Mike was here before Melo.

I'm pretty sure D'Antoni never coached Melo for a full 82 game season. Stop this nonsense. Mike was on the verge of getting fired well before Melo was a Knick.


Oh please, D'antoni had a young Knicks team outperforming themselves at 28-26 when we traded for Melo. It was guys that fit the way he wanted to play, and were young. Probably the most exciting time to be a Knicks fan over the past 15 years. Then we blew up the team for an isolation player who didn't like to up the pace, completely opposite of what D'antoni wants to do. Mike was not close to the hot seat till Melo started fighting him on the style of play, specifically Mike trying to get him to play as a spread 4
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#20 » by Greenie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:54 pm

K P 6 wrote:Melo didnt mesh with his style and we didnt allow him to run his offense with the type of players we had. Only team Melo would of meshed with was the Hawks when they hd Mike woodson.

What was Mike's excuse before Melo?
How soon we forget Mike spent the majority of his time here without Melo.
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