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Did we misread Dantoni?

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#121 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:58 am

And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#122 » by Phish Tank » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:58 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
I didn't really think that there was any dispute that Melo didn't want to relegated to what he described (as I recall) as "a spot up 3 point shooter" during Linsanity. You could see it by the forlorn look on Melo's face when he came back and Lin was still trying to do his thing and incorporating Melo back into the offense. But the ball stuck in Melo's hands back then too and we couldn't get any real rhythm and cohesion on offense.


Yeah, that's because Melo was never and will never be a spot up three point shooter. Melo's not a spot up shooter. The ball didn't stick during Linsanity; he just didn't score for **** because he couldn't be a spot up shooter.

He wasn't a good enough shooter to either just spot up and wasn't quick enough to just be a cutter. That's just a waste of talent.


Then I have to ask you, why did we trade half the team for Melo with D'Antoni as the coach?


starphucking.... we lost on LeBron. If Donnie hadn't traded for Melo, he'd have been let go. We freed up all this cap space for LeBron and he didn't sign with us. If we just ended up with Amare, then Donnie would be fired. Granted, he was still let go, but we couldn't strike out.

Now why trade instead of FA? Well you can look up all the Melo threads and find that answer
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#123 » by Dr. Detfink » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:36 am

Did someone just mention Mike D'Antoni's defensive schemes? You mean phantom defense!

The Phoenix Suns organization is a circus act with no rings.

You watch, Houston will be entertaining but NEVER reach the Finals.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#124 » by BringBackLj! » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:38 am

poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.

I was calling for Pringles to get fired, I was at the front of the line...I hated his LEGGO coaching, especially on defense.

However, lets focus on the Melo trade back in 2011...I know the Melo trade finalized on Feb 10th, 2011...
Based on our schedule, we went through a rough patch after the big win against Miami. Amare was playing MVP ball though.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/results_by_team/2010_2011_knicks.htm

Do you think long term wise we would have found success with the guys we had or it's true what they say about the Basketball Gods...They hate us, so we would still stick if the Melo trade did not happen?



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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#125 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:54 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
I didn't really think that there was any dispute that Melo didn't want to relegated to what he described (as I recall) as "a spot up 3 point shooter" during Linsanity. You could see it by the forlorn look on Melo's face when he came back and Lin was still trying to do his thing and incorporating Melo back into the offense. But the ball stuck in Melo's hands back then too and we couldn't get any real rhythm and cohesion on offense.


Yeah, that's because Melo was never and will never be a spot up three point shooter. Melo's not a spot up shooter. The ball didn't stick during Linsanity; he just didn't score for **** because he couldn't be a spot up shooter.

He wasn't a good enough shooter to either just spot up and wasn't quick enough to just be a cutter. That's just a waste of talent.


Then I have to ask you, why did we trade half the team for Melo with D'Antoni as the coach?



Because the team fuqed up running after LeBron. We traded Hill in his rookie year just to move Jeffries so we could have more money for the summer of LeBron.

We walked away with knock kneed STAT and Eat em up Felton.

That's why.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#126 » by Bill Pidto » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:09 am

dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#127 » by Sark » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:11 am

dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


We never had the means to get one. You can't make one out of thin air. We should have rebuilt 3 years ago instead of on the fly compete.
Greenie: Disagree. I think Tatum is going to be better than KP. I don't know about DSjr.

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#128 » by NY2TheBay » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:17 am

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


We never had the means to get one. You can't make one out of thin air. We should have rebuilt 3 years ago instead of on the fly compete.


This is the year to get one. If we have any luck fox, smith and frank are on the board.

Havent seen a draft this deep in PG talent.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#129 » by Sark » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:40 am

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Thank you Donnie Walsh for announcing to the world our intentions.
Greenie: Disagree. I think Tatum is going to be better than KP. I don't know about DSjr.

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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#130 » by NYKBaller » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:34 am

You need talent to win, when mike was here we didn't have the talent. All this love fest for Melo he made Mike quit but we sweep that under the rug 'cause it doesn't fit the media's narrative of victim Melo
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#131 » by mcmurphy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:39 am

Greenie wrote:
Knicks93 wrote:
Greenie wrote:Once again with this.

Mike was here before Melo.

I'm pretty sure D'Antoni never coached Melo for a full 82 game season. Stop this nonsense. Mike was on the verge of getting fired well before Melo was a Knick.


Oh please, D'antoni had a young Knicks team outperforming themselves at 28-26 when we traded for Melo. It was guys that fit the way he wanted to play, and were young. Then we blew up the team for an isolation player who didn't like to up the pace, completely opposite of what D'antoni wants to do. Mike was not close to the hot seat till Melo started fighting him on the style of play, specifically Mike trying to get him to play as a spread 4

Mike was here two full years before Melo stepped foot in NY. His lack of defensive coaching had his ass on the hot seat. We never made the playoffs under him until 2010 came and we signed STAT who got off to a blazing start and had us in the playoffs with Felton playing like an All-Star. Felton never made the All-Star game. You know why? He fell the fuq off and with his fall off also came the fall of the Knicks record. That's why the Melo trade was pushed through in the first place. The team started free falling. Sounds familiar right? Uh huh.

Mike wasn't safe and everyone knew it. We wanted a defensive specialist coach for the dude. Ain't that why his ass was fired in PHX? Oh yeah, that's right.


The ridiculous thing is that attribute to D'antoni even the poor performance of the first two years with NY.
Maybe they don't remember the situation left by Isiah Thomas in NY in 2007-08.
A salary payroll of 100mln with many intradable contracts and a mission impossible of clear up all, to have the max salary cap space available to free agent season 2010-11 (Lebron & Co.).

That season 2010-11 the starting lineup of :
W. Chandler | R. Felton | L. Fields | D. Gallinari | A. Stoudemire played 572 min with a NetRtg +4.8
with a total salary of 29.7 mln (2.1 + 7.5 + 0.4 +3.3 + 16,4) and a salary cap of 58mln (with 30mln to improve the team).

I don't know why NY fan like change history just to not admit that the Melo trade was a failure.

The Knicks were at 0.500 since 28 November (9-9, with a tough schedule, 7 games at Home and 11 on the Road) and they increased their record up to 22-15 (18 games at Home and 19 on the Road) at 11 January (7 weeks were continuously improved the record).
In mid-January began the rumors related of Melo-trade where every day half-team entered or left in the hypothetical trade.
The performances were affected but the record was always above 0.500 until the day of the trade (28-26 at 16 Feb).
So, the team had a record over 0.500 continuously for 36 games (more of 11 weeks not maybe a week).
In my opinion that team could reach well 48-50 win.
Next season NY could improve PG/SG/C with the ton of cap space or with the assets wich had.
Also NY could use later the amnesty clause on injuried Amare (amnesty burned with the waive of Billups).

Knicks93 wrote:Exactly. That is why Phil has been the best President the Knicks have had in a while by default. At least he hasn't ruined our future for the next ownership once he moves on


Surely the situation is better than 2008 offseason (mainly due to Porz) but not so much better.

In fact I find several similarities:
31-year-old Marbury with his last full max salary year (33-years old Melo with 2 remaining full max salary year)

intradable contract (Eddy Curry and Jerome James) without adding pick (32-years old Noah with 55mils/3 years remaining)
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#132 » by mcmurphy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:01 am

dakomish23 wrote:
Two years ago with a James Harden MVP level season, McHale had them at the 2 seed and 56 wins. This year they had 55 wins and the 3 seed.

the difference is that two years ago the NetRtg was +3.82 (7th in the league, with expected W-L of 50-32, so do better than is expected in terms of wins) and this year the NetRtg is +5.84 (3rd in the league, with expected W-L of 55-27, so do equal than is expected in terms of wins)

dakomish23 wrote:That guy is the best SG in the NBA and just led the league in assists. Take him off that team and maybe you get 20 wins. Don't care who the coach is.


2014-15

On-court Harden +5.8
Off-court Harden -2.6


2016-17

On-court Harden +6.3
Off-court Harden +2.8


So without Harden with D'Antoni, Houston has increased the NetRtg of +5.4 in the West ;-)
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#133 » by Stannis » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:48 am

poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.
Doubtful. Once Melo made it public that he demanded to go to NY, Nuggets would've demanded Curry been included in the deal. It would've have saved us Mosgov, those 2nd rounders though, and one of Gallo/Chandler/1st rounder. :lol:

At the time, nobody (as far as I know) predicted that Curry was going to be a future HoFer.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#134 » by Stannis » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:58 am

Greenie wrote:Because the team fuqed up running after LeBron. We traded Hill in his rookie year just to move Jeffries so we could have more money for the summer of LeBron.

We walked away with knock kneed STAT and Eat em up Felton.

That's why.

Can't blame the FO for going after Lebron. That was a good free agency class in general.

At that time, Hill had a decent salary because he was a high pick. Moving him actually saved up money in free agency (that's how bad of a rookie he was, he was already on a bad contract). It was actually trading a first rounder to Houston just to move Hill's and Jeffries' contract, irrc.

Felton was decent.

Walsh should've listened to Mike D and gone with D. Lee over Amare. It wouldn't have gotten the Knicks anywhere really, but would have kept them competitive for a season or two with no long term damage.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#135 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:55 am

Bill Pidto wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


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No you're right. We should be grateful that they've ignored the position for years!

Image

This isn't just a PJax problem. This a Knicks organization problem. Always putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.

God forbid I state the obvious.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#136 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:57 am

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


We never had the means to get one. You can't make one out of thin air. We should have rebuilt 3 years ago instead of on the fly compete.


Actually we did.

On the rebuild, you're getting it anyway because PJax has been that bad at his job. So congrats :party:
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#137 » by whocares1 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:05 pm

Stannis wrote:
poeman wrote:I am pretty sure if Steph Curry was the pick instead of a Jordan Hill...Dantoni probably still remains in the Knicks picture another 3 years after he got fired I think.
Doubtful. Once Melo made it public that he demanded to go to NY, Nuggets would've demanded Curry been included in the deal. It would've have saved us Mosgov, those 2nd rounders though, and one of Gallo/Chandler/1st rounder. :lol:

At the time, nobody (as far as I know) predicted that Curry was going to be a future HoFer.


That isn't 100% at all. Curry was Dantoni's pick. He didn't care for Jordan Hill so him being traded made sense at the time to free up cap space. Curry had already shown that he had star potential his rookie season, imagine if he had Dantoni centering the offense around him. He would've been a fan favorite in NY by the time Melo wouldve wanted to come here. If they traded Steph, Dantoni would've immediately quit, and the fans wouldn't have been happy to lose a homegrown star.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#138 » by whocares1 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:10 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


Image


No you're right. We should be grateful that they've ignored the position for years!

Image

This isn't just a PJax problem. This a Knicks organization problem. Always putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.

God forbid I state the obvious.


I mean if the organization prioritized on getting a franchise point guard, they likely would've drafted Mudiay instead of KP. Since Phil had been here, who was the franchise point guard that they could've gotten but didn't? With the two first round picks and the 4-5 secound round picks he's used, who's the franchise point guard he should've drafted? Who's the franchise point guard that was demanding to play for the Knicks via trade? They're plentiful in the NBA, but unfortunately the Knicks haven't been put in a position to even acquire one. We should reserve judgement until they have the opportunity and don't take it.
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#139 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:32 pm

Bill Pidto wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:And we STILL dont have a long term solution at PG

This organization is the worst


Image

We've been looking for a freaking PG since Mark Jackson was a rookie.

We never gave Melo one and KP is headed down the same road without one. Rose damn sure ain't it. A scorer without a facilitator to help balance the offense is a huge no no. We had two score first guys and decided to give them a score first lead guard.

Nice Phil. :lol:
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Re: Did we misread Dantoni? 

Post#140 » by Greenie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:54 pm

whocares1 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Bill Pidto wrote:
Image


No you're right. We should be grateful that they've ignored the position for years!

Image

This isn't just a PJax problem. This a Knicks organization problem. Always putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.

God forbid I state the obvious.


I mean if the organiztion prioritized on getting a franchise point guard, they likely would've drafted Mudiay instead of KP. Since Phil had been here, who was the franchise point guard that they could've gotten but didn't? With the two first round picks and the 4-5 secound round picks he's used, who's the franchise point guard he should've drafted? Who's the franchise point guard that was demanding to play for the Knicks via trade? They're plentiful in the NBA, but unfortunately the Knicks haven't been put in a position to even acquire one. We should reserve judgement until they have the opportunity and don't take it.










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