Did we misread Dantoni?

[prophet_of_rage]

Dantoni absolutely had expectations. He was brought in to attract Lebron. Tracy McGrady looked great in it though he was a shell of himself then.

Yes ball movement is great in an offence but it doesn't have to come from five guys. Melo is a finisher. The problem is the Knicks don't have any initiators. Everything was fine when Melo had Billups and Felton to initiate. Not so much when it was Shumpert and the rest of the point scrubs.

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[Phish Tank]

Part of the reason D'Antoni was hired in the first place was to increase the trade value of the current roster we had while also making the team semi-exciting for the summer of 2010. We could have hired Mark Jackson or Avery Johnson during that time. In fact, had we acted faster, we could have pried away Rick Carlisle from the Mavs at the time. However, Dallas flipped coaches fast.

The team was in cap hell. We were trying to become attractive to free agents. D'Antoni's hire was to attract LeBron and a super team to bring down Boston. That failed. Donnie also thought Melo could also thrive under D'Antoni. Not only did that fail, but the lockout happened, which basically doomed any sort of relationship Melo/D'Antoni could have fostered. The whole stigma of losing LeBron, trading for Melo, and the impeding lockout pretty much marked the end of the Walsh/D'Antoni era.

There was nothing misread about D'Antoni.

[Greenie]

Compare James Harden assists in D'Antoni's system to Melo's assists...with D'Antoni, with anyone, period. The picture becomes clearer. Pretty much winning basketball systems are predicated on movement of the ball, D'Antoni, the Triangle, just pass to hit the open man. Melo..... doesn't pass. End of story.

Melo wasn't here Mike's first two seasons.

Stop it

[Greenie]

We were supposed to become this up and coming team to attract LeBron in 2010. It never happened. Melo wasn't here to stop a damn thing. We played no defense and our young cornerstone(Gallo) was being misused in the system.


Sounds like something I'm reading now.

[NYKAL]

Stop blaming a player who wasn't even here for most of Mike's tenure for his fuqed up coaching.

You are trying to say the coach did a bad job over a time period when no one expected him to win. He had no expectations on him because of the roster. Mike wasn't on the hot seat till 2011.

It is like expecting Kenny Atkinson to win with Brooklyn's roster right now, and saying 5 years from now he was a failure when everyone knew he had no talent to coach.

I'm not going to front...there IS truth to this. But, at the same time, dude was so stubborn....even got pissed when it was suggested he hire a defensive coach. Something he refused to do until forced into it. That assistant coach DID improve the defense but, unfortunately he got promoted to head coach too. Mike Woodson...who proved that NOT ALL assistant should become Head Coaches.

[Greenie]

Greenie, u can't hold those 08-09 and 09-10 squads against D'antoni

Oh yes I can.

Him and his SSOL can kiss my entire backside.

[Knicksfan1992]

D'Antoni needs certain players to win. Morey is a good GM for him because they have similar principles in how to play basketball and Harden was a perfect fit at PG. There's a reason why he's been inconsistent as a coach. When he's gotten to pick his players/play with an elite distributing pg he's done well (Suns and Rockets). When he's had to inherit chit and try and make not-so-ideal situations for his style play better he's failed (Lakers and Knicks). Ultimately, I wouldn't want him as my coach ever again. He's the type of guy that gets you close to winning it all, but never actually does in my opinion. He's better off as an assistant or as a coach in college where he can recruit his kind of guys year in and year out and run them into the ground as much as his heart desires since they have such a short lifespan in the NCAA.

[NYKAL]

Don't think we misread, we thought he was a good coach. Melo just refused to change for his system, same thing with Phil and the triangle now. We chose Melo over Mike

Once again with this.

Mike was here before Melo.

I'm pretty sure D'Antoni never coached Melo for a full 82 game season. Stop this nonsense. Mike was on the verge of getting fired well before Melo was a Knick.

Oh please, D'antoni had a young Knicks team outperforming themselves at 28-26 when we traded for Melo. It was guys that fit the way he wanted to play, and were young. Probably the most exciting time to be a Knicks fan over the past 15 years. Then we blew up the team for an isolation player who didn't like to up the pace, completely opposite of what D'antoni wants to do. Mike was not close to the hot seat till Melo started fighting him on the style of play, specifically Mike trying to get him to play as a spread 4

which is around the point where teams get exposed. That team had poor defenders from top to bottom except for Chandler imo. Amare was like the number 3scorer in the league so, no one cared at that time how bad his defense was (so long as he blocked a shot here and there). The teams was heading for some serious butt hurt that only got avoided because of the Melo trade. They would have been a 1st round out just like with Melo

[Knicksfan1992]

We were supposed to become this up and coming team to attract LeBron in 2010. It never happened. Melo wasn't here to stop a damn thing. We played no defense and our young cornerstone(Gallo) was being misused in the system.


Sounds like something I'm reading now.

Yup D'Antoni doesn't adjust his system to his player strengths. One of his biggest flaws. Pop can make a mountain out of a molehill. D'Antoni turns molehills into craters.

[JBreezeNY]

So we went from Pringles was here to bring Lebron to he was just here to lead youngins?

[Billy Goat]

We were supposed to become this up and coming team to attract LeBron in 2010. It never happened. Melo wasn't here to stop a damn thing. We played no defense and our young cornerstone(Gallo) was being misused in the system.


Sounds like something I'm reading now.

Yup D'Antoni doesn't adjust his system to his player strengths. One of his biggest flaws. Pop can make a mountain out of a molehill. D'Antoni turns molehills into craters.

well there's been a system in place in San Antonio going on two decades. Buford and Pop are on the same page when it comes to personnel- you have to actually be coachable. San Antonio has built their rosters through the draft with guys in mind they know they can coach and work with. The Knicks havent exactly had the easiest guys to deal with....and a lot of that has to do with them building through FA/trades - dealing with guys their original team didnt want anymore.

[prophet_of_rage]

Greenie, u can't hold those 08-09 and 09-10 squads against D'antoni

Oh yes I can.

Him and his SSOL can kiss my entire backside.

Wait, so what about me?

[Greenie]

It's actually exactly the same.

Both come in with a touted system, until the **** players in the roster exposes the system and they turn around and blame Melo.

It's also possible Carmelo isnt nearly as good as you think he is.

One common thing in both Mike and Phil's times, Melo resisted the system, and continued to play absolutely no defense while stopping ball movement on offense. Both offenses rely on the ball moving at all times also

So who the fuq was resisting the system before 2010?

Gallo?
Will?
Lee?
Nate?

All these mofo's you all whine about had Mike out here looking fraudulent before STAT came here.

Melo is not the reason Mike got fired. Mike is. Steve Kerr got rid of Mike because dude refused a damn defensive coordinator in PHX. I will not allow this capping for Mike D'Antoni. Who looked like a **** head coach in Denver, New York and Los Angeles.

[Knicksfan1992]

We were supposed to become this up and coming team to attract LeBron in 2010. It never happened. Melo wasn't here to stop a damn thing. We played no defense and our young cornerstone(Gallo) was being misused in the system.


Sounds like something I'm reading now.

Yup D'Antoni doesn't adjust his system to his player strengths. One of his biggest flaws. Pop can make a mountain out of a molehill. D'Antoni turns molehills into craters.

well there's been a system in place in San Antonio going on two decades. Buford and Pop are on the same page when it comes to personnel- you have to actually be coachable. San Antonio has built their rosters through the draft with guys in mind they know they can coach and work with. The Knicks havent exactly had the easiest guys to deal with....and a lot of that has to do with them building through FA/trades - dealing with guys their original team didnt want anymore.

Pop has constantly adjusted his system. D'Antoni hasn't. The Spurs used to be a slow grind it out, ugly defensive ball club. Now they're a free flowing 3 happy defensive juggernaut. When has D'Antoni adjusted anything? Yes having coachable player helps, but when you're coach is as stubborn as a mule does it matter how coachable your guys are?

[Billy Goat]

Yup D'Antoni doesn't adjust his system to his player strengths. One of his biggest flaws. Pop can make a mountain out of a molehill. D'Antoni turns molehills into craters.

well there's been a system in place in San Antonio going on two decades. Buford and Pop are on the same page when it comes to personnel- you have to actually be coachable. San Antonio has built their rosters through the draft with guys in mind they know they can coach and work with. The Knicks havent exactly had the easiest guys to deal with....and a lot of that has to do with them building through FA/trades - dealing with guys their original team didnt want anymore.

Pop has constantly adjusted his system. D'Antoni hasn't. The Spurs used to be a slow grind it out, ugly defensive ball club. Now they're a free flowing 3 happy defensive juggernaut. When has D'Antoni adjusted anything? Yes having coachable player helps, but when you're coach is as stubborn as a mule does it matter how coachable your guys are?

When the roster sucks none of it matters. The Spurs have drafted well. The teams Dantoni had here, especially the first two had nothing. Who was Dantoni going to adjust for- Channing Frye?

[prophet_of_rage]

If you misread Dantoni then it's most likely because of stanning. You know, how we always side with the guy who appears to be the winner regardless of how things actually are. We were clamouring for a star like Melo to matchup with the Big 3 and feel better about being spurned so it had to be Dantoni's fault it wasn't working. Phil has 11 ring so we have to feel better that he might be able to lead us than Melo and his zero rings. Phil also has zero rings as an executive and doesn't know what the hell he's doing (if he's doing anything at all since Mills does the paperwork (ie the job)) but his other rings make up for it so he must know best.

[Greenie]

Greenie, u can't hold those 08-09 and 09-10 squads against D'antoni

Oh yes I can.

Him and his SSOL can kiss my entire backside.

Wait, so what about me?

[Isiahthomass]

It's actually exactly the same.

Both come in with a touted system, until the **** players in the roster exposes the system and they turn around and blame Melo.

It's also possible Carmelo isnt nearly as good as you think he is.

One common thing in both Mike and Phil's times, Melo resisted the system, and continued to play absolutely no defense while stopping ball movement on offense. Both offenses rely on the ball moving at all times also

OK So Phil has 11 rings with his system, with guys like Michael, Scottie, Shaq, Kobe being completely on board with how great of a coach Phil is. D'Antoni repeatedly had success in Phoenix (Not Championships, but we'd kill to have repeated 50+ win seasons and to repeatedly make it to the conference semis and finals) and now has success again in Houston. You're telling me that the Knicks players are exposing the systems? No, it is the systems that are exposing the Knicks players for their lack of basketball IQ, especially Melo.

[bigtimeRC3]

Dantoni only likes players that he thinks have multiple skills. It's pretty funny he released Corey brewer who is a decent player for Jared Jeffries.also brewer had reduced minutes this season when he was in Houston and subsequently was traded.

[Billy Goat]

It's also possible Carmelo isnt nearly as good as you think he is.

One common thing in both Mike and Phil's times, Melo resisted the system, and continued to play absolutely no defense while stopping ball movement on offense. Both offenses rely on the ball moving at all times also

OK So Phil has 11 rings with his system, with guys like Michael, Scottie, Shaq, Kobe being completely on board with how great of a coach Phil is. D'Antoni repeatedly had success in Phoenix (Not Championships, but we'd kill to have repeated 50+ win seasons and to repeatedly make it to the conference semis and finals) and now has success again in Houston. You're telling me that the Knicks players are exposing the systems? No, it is the systems that are exposing the Knicks players for their lack of basketball IQ, especially Melo.

You need the players first and foremost. The Knicks haven't had a true star since Ewing if we're being honest. They've pissed away picks and money for the quick fixes under Dolan and have spun their tires in the mud...if not worse. This is a franchise who gave up two lottery picks for Eddy Curry! They're still digging out of that.

All of this chatter about system, triangle etc doesnt mean anything if the talent sucks. You have to build through the draft. There's no other way.