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Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD

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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#381 » by K-DOT » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:36 am

The lowest salaried all-star last year was Isaiah Thomas at 6.5 mil, which is a unique case
Next was Kemba Walker at 11 mil
Everyone else was at least 15 per

So then Hardaway has to be an all-star level, right?
Well, not quite

Out of all the all-stars that had their contracts renewed this year, all got 24 + million, meaning that an all-star level talent will cost you somewhere around 25 million dollars

Basically, THJ doesn't have to be an all-star to live up to his contract, just an above average starter. Right now, I'd say he's a low to mid level starter, so he has to improve to be worth 71 million, if we assume no growth from him, he should be worth somewhere in the realm of 55 million, so an overpay of about 4 mil per, in my estimations
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#382 » by SARGO127 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:39 am

What time is the presser tomorrow?
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#383 » by Handledatruth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:57 am

K-DOT wrote:The lowest salaried all-star last year was Isaiah Thomas at 6.5 mil, which is a unique case
Next was Kemba Walker at 11 mil
Everyone else was at least 15 per

So then Hardaway has to be an all-star level, right?
Well, not quite

Out of all the all-stars that had their contracts renewed this year, all got 24 + million, meaning that an all-star level talent will cost you somewhere around 25 million dollars

Basically, THJ doesn't have to be an all-star to live up to his contract, just an above average starter. Right now, I'd say he's a low to mid level starter, so he has to improve to be worth 71 million, if we assume no growth from him, he should be worth somewhere in the realm of 55 million, so an overpay of about 4 mil per, in my estimations


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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#384 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:20 am

SARGO127 wrote:What time is the presser tomorrow?


2pm
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#385 » by KnicksGod » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:39 am

K-DOT wrote:The lowest salaried all-star last year was Isaiah Thomas at 6.5 mil, which is a unique case
Next was Kemba Walker at 11 mil
Everyone else was at least 15 per

So then Hardaway has to be an all-star level, right?
Well, not quite

Out of all the all-stars that had their contracts renewed this year, all got 24 + million, meaning that an all-star level talent will cost you somewhere around 25 million dollars

Basically, THJ doesn't have to be an all-star to live up to his contract, just an above average starter. Right now, I'd say he's a low to mid level starter, so he has to improve to be worth 71 million, if we assume no growth from him, he should be worth somewhere in the realm of 55 million, so an overpay of about 4 mil per, in my estimations


Fair & balanced.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#386 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:42 am

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
SARGO127 wrote:What time is the presser tomorrow?


2pm

Will it be on the air for us to watch?
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#387 » by drekwins » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:53 am

K-DOT wrote:The lowest salaried all-star last year was Isaiah Thomas at 6.5 mil, which is a unique case
Next was Kemba Walker at 11 mil
Everyone else was at least 15 per

So then Hardaway has to be an all-star level, right?
Well, not quite

Out of all the all-stars that had their contracts renewed this year, all got 24 + million, meaning that an all-star level talent will cost you somewhere around 25 million dollars

Basically, THJ doesn't have to be an all-star to live up to his contract, just an above average starter. Right now, I'd say he's a low to mid level starter, so he has to improve to be worth 71 million, if we assume no growth from him, he should be worth somewhere in the realm of 55 million, so an overpay of about 4 mil per, in my estimations


Forget about the renewals. All you need to know are the max percentages. An all star with 0-6 years of experience is worth 25mill starting per year. An all-star with more years is worth 35mill per year. It's that simple. THJs contract isn't that much. Supermax players will be making over 40 mill per season soon. By the 4th year, 18 mill will only be a max of 15% of the cap.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#388 » by HighRyzer83 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 am

I just dont see why just because the cap is booming any team has to bog themselves down with a ridiculously inefficient contracts. Whats wrong with saying "so and so" isn't worth that kind of money, regardless of what another idiot wants to pay him. Its not smart managing and owners that do that are settings themselves up for failure then for another lockout. Throwing out universally salivated buzz words like "youth, length and defense" is all when and good but an inefficient future is a bleak future, the semantics of relative pay grade not withstanding.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#389 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:32 am

drekwins wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
drekwins wrote:
The Knicks used their room exception...which is 4.3mil per. The non-taxpayer mid-level is 8.4 million and projected to be over 10 million by the 4th year of Tim's contract. Also, keep in mind, Tim is a starter/top 6-7 rotation guy that's only 24. The mid-level exception includes rookie scale salaries, non-rotation players and end of the bench scrubs. So, it's not really a fair barometer in judging average salary. To determine that, you'd have to only count rotation players and exclude rookie contracts. His contract really isn't THAT bad. The max is going to be 40 million per year very soon.

Really all that needs to be said.


It really doesn't... That's exactly the problem with the fans. Everything is in absolutes. Everything is either a 10 - Great or a 0 - Terrible. There is a wide gap of in-between. Consider this, how many players off their rookie contracts, with starting potential, change teams for less than the max? It doesn't happen. Restricted free agency is set up in a way that allows all teams to keep their young talent. Yet, the knicks got a young starter with very good efficiency numbers (who also seems to work hard on his game) for an amount that's significantly less. It just doesn't happen in today's NBA.

Typically, players with potential do not reach free agency until their 7th-8th year in the league. By then, they're 26, 27 or 28. In order to get a 24 year old in free agency, right off of his rookie deal, that's actually starter material, without even going close to the max is unheard of. You have to understand, the great prospects are not available until much later in their career. You really couldn't expect much better... maybe 10 mill less in total contract. That's really not material if he plays well.

You've admitted the contract is bad. Bad, not too bad, that bad....is still bad. Nothing to discuss here.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#390 » by Are We Ther Yet » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:43 am

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
SARGO127 wrote:What time is the presser tomorrow?


2pm

Will it be on the air for us to watch?


I can't find anything definite and it isn't on the channel guide. I would think they broadcast it but...i don't know.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#391 » by earthmansurfer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:57 am

Worst_to_First wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
Gave me flashbacks of Amare Stoudemire who wanted to play for us, who wanted to play for us precisely because we overpaid for him. Enough said. Looked smart in year one but almost everyone saw it was bound to fail. Not exactly a smart strategy and ultimately flawed.

As to those who wanted to play here and possible trades, everything is guesswork at this point.


You can't prove your point by listing one example of it. Sure the league is about money, and Timmy was overpaid, but he also hasn't had multiple knee surgeries, isn't as old as Amare was, etc. Enough said?

And let's hear your guesswork, otherwise it is dust in the wind...


LOL, I do not have to give a single example if the better recourse would be not overpaying for someone. How about stand pat and develop Dotson and Frank who I see more of a wing would have been a better alternative. We never know when the cap space we have would be handy.We are too obsessed into getting people when accumulating young talent should also entail developing the people that you get.


I am looking forward to Dotson, I think the problem with just that is it would have frustrated KP and they wanted to do things right by him.

I honestly don't follow FA deeply, so where are these FA's you wanted, off the top of your head? :D
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#392 » by drekwins » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:01 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
drekwins wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Really all that needs to be said.


It really doesn't... That's exactly the problem with the fans. Everything is in absolutes. Everything is either a 10 - Great or a 0 - Terrible. There is a wide gap of in-between. Consider this, how many players off their rookie contracts, with starting potential, change teams for less than the max? It doesn't happen. Restricted free agency is set up in a way that allows all teams to keep their young talent. Yet, the knicks got a young starter with very good efficiency numbers (who also seems to work hard on his game) for an amount that's significantly less. It just doesn't happen in today's NBA.

Typically, players with potential do not reach free agency until their 7th-8th year in the league. By then, they're 26, 27 or 28. In order to get a 24 year old in free agency, right off of his rookie deal, that's actually starter material, without even going close to the max is unheard of. You have to understand, the great prospects are not available until much later in their career. You really couldn't expect much better... maybe 10 mill less in total contract. That's really not material if he plays well.

You've admitted the contract is bad. Bad, not too bad, that bad....is still bad. Nothing to discuss here.


That's way too simplistic. I think it can turn into a great value deal. It's just a little bit risky. That's what I meant by "not too bad." It's a slight gamble. Right now, based off of his current production alone, he's probably worth 12-13mill per. Worse case scenario, if he doesn't improve, we overpaid a guy who's worth 13 mill, 17.5 mill... I can live with that.

However, keep in mind, that his stats will go up just by playing more minutes. You can increase everything by 25% right off the bat if he plays 36 per night. That brings him to roughly 18 points.
Besides that, he's going to be a higher priority than he has ever been before. 14.5 points as a 4th or 5th option is impressive. Now, he's number 2. This is far from another Eddy Curry, Noah or Amar'e situation. There's upside potential.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#393 » by dakomish23 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:03 am

We overpaid to get him. Should of stopped at 14 per as I do not think ATL matched with the young wings they had in place and Baze already on the books. Absolutely ridiculous that it is isn't a team option on the 4th year and that we gave him the trade kicker in case we want to dump him before.

Him living up to the salary is a different argument IMO.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#394 » by Jay10 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:39 am

Carmelo's NTC has people shook around here when it comes to THJr. :lol:

Him having a player option and trade kicker doesn't mean anything. He can agree to lower the trade kicker amount, the same way Chris Paul did to join the Rockets by taking $500,000 instead of the $3.6M he was owed if traded.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#395 » by NYKnicksFTW » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:42 am

First order of business:

Look at some young guys like Jordan Mickey, Stephen Zimmerman, Demetrius Jackson, Trey Burke, Tyler Ennis, Troy Williams, James Young, Rakeem Christmas, Michael Gbinije, Georges Niang...


Not necessarily sign ALL of them....just a couple of them and invite the rest to training camp :P. I would love to take a chance on Mickey, Zimmerman and one of Jackson, Burke and Ennis.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#396 » by stuporman » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:01 am

If THjr gets the production the next few seasons that he did last season from Jan1 on the rest of the season... is he worth the contract?
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#397 » by Newyorknick94 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:09 am

Should grab Trey Burke he play with Hardaway in college
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#398 » by Disgruntled » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:10 am

stuporman wrote:If THjr gets the production the next few seasons that he did last season from Jan1 on the rest of the season... is he worth the contract?



No absolutely not. Hardaway is an above average scorer at this point.That's it. Every other facet of his game is either weak or terrible. Scoring 18points but doing absolutely nothing else is not going to cut it in my book at all. No rebounding, no passing, questionable shots, low bball IQ. Some posters say his defense is not abysmal anymore...when I say him play last season I thought his defense was still terrible but some disagree.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#399 » by Disgruntled » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:28 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:I just dont see why just because the cap is booming any team has to bog themselves down with a ridiculously inefficient contracts. Whats wrong with saying "so and so" isn't worth that kind of money, regardless of what another idiot wants to pay him. Its not smart managing and owners that do that are settings themselves up for failure then for another lockout. Throwing out universally salivated buzz words like "youth, length and defense" is all when and good but an inefficient future is a bleak future, the semantics of relative pay grade not withstanding.



The stupidity of Mills is baffling. He wants to go forward with long, athletic players that play defense. Then he goes out and ties up 71mill. to a player that , for his position, is not particularly long, not that athletic and plays little to no defense at all.
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Re: Steve Mills Outlines The Knicks Plan: FULL REBUILD 

Post#400 » by stuporman » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:29 am

Disgruntled wrote:
stuporman wrote:If THjr gets the production the next few seasons that he did last season from Jan1 on the rest of the season... is he worth the contract?



No absolutely not. Hardaway is an above average scorer at this point.That's it. Every other facet of his game is either weak or terrible. Scoring 18points but doing absolutely nothing else is not going to cut it in my book at all. No rebounding, no passing, questionable shots, low bball IQ. Some posters say his defense is not abysmal anymore...when I say him play last season I thought his defense was still terrible but some disagree.


You are just a disgruntled ballboy so please excuse me for telling you to stfu. :lol:
Ugly win > Pretty loss
Those who'd rather see their team fail so they can be right are fans of their opinion not the team.
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