Are we stuck with Zach?

[viceroy]

why shouldnt randolph be angry when hes being benched? especially when hes putting up way better rebounding numbers, playing with far more effort, and being far more productive than lard ass and the junk crew ? in terms of working hard for hsi contract, randolph is one of the very few players who actually plays hard everynight. unlike lard ass. but yet people still love lard ass. randolph may be a black hole, but maybe thats because he has horrible and inconsistent shooters around him? what if you actually put team mates around him that he could trust to hit the shot? would you pass to q-brick after his second airball of the night? randolph may not be the best centerpiece, but put him in with good players and he can help lead a beast of a team. still though still hard to give up on a big who can easily leads the league in fg % every year on a good number of shots, and curry's offensive numbers have been good. but can you trust him to be what you build the franchise around? and does put in effort in any other areas of the game?

[mjhp911]

why shouldnt randolph be angry when hes being benched? especially when hes putting up way better rebounding numbers, playing with far more effort, and being far more productive than lard ass and the junk crew ? in terms of working hard for hsi contract, randolph is one of the very few players who actually plays hard everynight. unlike lard ass. but yet people still love lard ass. randolph may be a black hole, but maybe thats because he has horrible and inconsistent shooters around him? what if you actually put team mates around him that he could trust to hit the shot? would you pass to q-brick after his second airball of the night? randolph may not be the best centerpiece, but put him in with good players and he can help lead a beast of a team.

Welcome to the Knicks Forum. Fans are just frustrated here, and they sometimes reach for the closest scapegoat. I agree with your view of Z-Bo, but not everyone sees it. Such is life.

[moocow007]

why shouldnt randolph be angry when hes being benched? especially when hes putting up way better rebounding numbers, playing with far more effort, and being far more productive than lard ass and the junk crew ? in terms of working hard for hsi contract, randolph is one of the very few players who actually plays hard everynight. unlike lard ass. but yet people still love lard ass. randolph may be a black hole, but maybe thats because he has horrible and inconsistent shooters around him? what if you actually put team mates around him that he could trust to hit the shot? would you pass to q-brick after his second airball of the night? randolph may not be the best centerpiece, but put him in with good players and he can help lead a beast of a team.

He has a team CHUCK FULL of guys that can score. It's completely and utterly different than what he had in Portland. So you can't necessarily fault him for doing what he's been doing for a long time. As far as putting players that he could trust? We're not talking about Kobe Bryant here. He's a blackhole, plain and simple. In order for his team to win he CANNOT continue to do that cause and again, he is not Kobe Bryant, he is not Lebron James. So yes, his stats will always be great but, much like most of his career, his team will always suck...and by this logic of yours the Knicks ARE his team. If winning was simply about stats then the Knicks would be a lot better than they are cause they have a ton of guys that can (and has) put up nice looking stats.

[viceroy]

-= original quote snipped =-



He has a team CHUCK FULL of guys that can score. It's completely and utterly different than what he had in Portland. So you can't necessarily fault him for doing what he's been doing for a long time. As far as putting players that he could trust? We're not talking about Kobe Bryant here. He's a blackhole, plain and simple. In order for his team to win he CANNOT continue to do that cause and again, he is not Kobe Bryant, he is not Lebron James. So yes, his stats will always be great but, much like most of his career, his team will always suck...and by this logic of yours the Knicks ARE his team. If winning was simply about stats then the Knicks would be a lot better than they are cause they have a ton of guys that can (and has) put up nice looking stats.

hhmm have to disagree there.

q-brick - 30 mpg - %315 FG .291 3PTFG%. THAT IS HORRIBLE. that is not a guy who can score in any sense of the word.

nate- 20mpg - .414 fg % .396 3pt fg% . decent shooter. probably the only passable "scorer" fg%s out of this pathetic bunch. only because of his decent 3pt shooting.

crawford - 40 mpg - .402 fg% .321fg% . by fg % NOT a great scorer at all. very inneficient. extremely streaky. can go 30 one night and 8 the next.

jefferies - .379 fg% .125 3PT fg %. HORRIBLE.

marbury has been way too inconsistent this season to see how he would really mesh with randolph. .420 fg %

and then theres eddy .

Chucking the ball does not make you a scorer. you say that this team if chuck full of scorers but i couldnt disagree more. these guys are HORRIBLE by "scorers" standards to such degree that i would never even call them scorers. well crawford can score. but hes extremely streaky. and puts up bad fg % for what would be a good "scorer" . in terms of scoring randolph is easily the best fg % out of any of them, other than curry . but no way in hell can you say to me that Randolph is justified in trusting shooting these kind of horrrrrible %s. FACE IT. randolph is not the problem here. the horrible lack of outside shooting, and monumental scoring inefficiency from the wings is what is killing the knicks, at least in regards to scoring. the porous defense is a whole nother story .

[drj]

Just because our other shooters suck doesn't justify Randolph's selfish play.

The fact is you win or lose as a team. Even if Randolph is more likely to hit a contested 18 footer than a guy like Crawford would be to hit an open jumper (which I doubt), Randolph still needs to make the pass. Otherwise the entire team gets frustrated, which contributes (among other factors) to their quitting.

You used to hear the same argument about Marbury (sure he didn't share the ball in NJ, but who did he have to share it to? Van Horn?) Selfish players make the entire team worse. There is a reason why the team does better without the the Zach-hole on the court!

[Jemini80]

nah, we will trade Randolph, Lee, and Nate for Elton Brand on one leg and 2 scrbs.

isiah will be called a genius, and we will win 40 games. Knicks fans will sing in the streets that we made the playoffs, while we get swept oout of the first round.

[TKF]

I would take a longer contract to get rid of zach at this point.. Honestly I would, as long as the player fit , and that is saying a lot, because we are such a dysfunctional group, how do you find someone who "fits"... anyway, I watched the spurs game, and I was encouraged with our play, especially without zach around.. he comes back the next night and the knicks fall apart again.. Isiah the coach is not going to make Isiah the GM look bad, by doing the right thing and benching zach, instead he starts him and messes up any good vibe we had from the night before... Please for the love of god , get rid of this guy!!

[Synciere]

I think I would trade Zach for pieces that "fit" also. The problem is, Zach is our best frontcourt player. Everyone likes what they see from Eddy when Eddy isn't on the court, but let's be real here. What we saw from Eddy last year was a little, and very little at that, more consistency, but the same lack of effort, lack of rebounding, lack of defensive intensity, player that NY and Chicago fans have seen for the better part of a decade.

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again. I would trade ANYONE on this team for a decent to good glue guy. Shane Battier anyone? However, to say that we're stuck with Zach being such a bad thing is out of hand. I'd trade Eddy Curry three times before I'd trade Zach. And honestly, if we some lockdown defenders on the perimeter, I'd be in favor of keeping both until their values were raised high enought that we'd get at the very least some minimal talent and lottery picks for them. Anything less, would be uncivilized...hehe

[chitownsports4ever]

-= original quote snipped =-



He has a team CHUCK FULL of guys that can score. It's completely and utterly different than what he had in Portland. So you can't necessarily fault him for doing what he's been doing for a long time. As far as putting players that he could trust? We're not talking about Kobe Bryant here. He's a blackhole, plain and simple. In order for his team to win he CANNOT continue to do that cause and again, he is not Kobe Bryant, he is not Lebron James. So yes, his stats will always be great but, much like most of his career, his team will always suck...and by this logic of yours the Knicks ARE his team. If winning was simply about stats then the Knicks would be a lot better than they are cause they have a ton of guys that can (and has) put up nice looking stats.

hhmm have to disagree there.

q-brick - 30 mpg - %315 FG .291 3PTFG%. THAT IS HORRIBLE. that is not a guy who can score in any sense of the word.

nate- 20mpg - .414 fg % .396 3pt fg% . decent shooter. probably the only passable "scorer" fg%s out of this pathetic bunch. only because of his decent 3pt shooting.

crawford - 40 mpg - .402 fg% .321fg% . by fg % NOT a great scorer at all. very inneficient. extremely streaky. can go 30 one night and 8 the next.

jefferies - .379 fg% .125 3PT fg %. HORRIBLE.

marbury has been way too inconsistent this season to see how he would really mesh with randolph. .420 fg %

and then theres eddy .

Chucking the ball does not make you a scorer. you say that this team if chuck full of scorers but i couldnt disagree more. these guys are HORRIBLE by "scorers" standards to such degree that i would never even call them scorers. well crawford can score. but hes extremely streaky. and puts up bad fg % for what would be a good "scorer" . in terms of scoring randolph is easily the best fg % out of any of them, other than curry . but no way in hell can you say to me that Randolph is justified in trusting shooting these kind of horrrrrible %s. FACE IT. randolph is not the problem here. the horrible lack of outside shooting, and monumental scoring inefficiency from the wings is what is killing the knicks, at least in regards to scoring. the porous defense is a whole nother story .

In the nba scoring isnt about the numbers but how those numbers affect the overall team.You can shoot horribly like AI has but if the team believes in you they wont lose a beat over you missing 3,4,5 shots in a row .Say what you want but Zach hasnt earned that right among this group and unless he can show some hardware his previous stats are no more important than anyone elses and EVERYONE has to sacrifice for the team.

If you watch these games long enough and really pay attention to the details you can see that Zach shooting alot is not the problem its when he is not shooting and that play is called for someone else and hes not in the right spot or trying to post up when the play called is for Curry or is supposed to be setting a high screen that are the problems . Hes as undisciplined a player as they come and thats what the problem is and for a team that just bought into that concept the second half of last season hes too much too soon. .

Isiah wouldve been better served starting Lee from day one in camp and slowly introducing Zach in the lineup around now. That wouldve allowed the team to adjust build on the momentum of last year and keep the chaos to a minimum .When teams have been losing for as long as the knicks and you start to maybe turn it around you have to be very very careful in what you do and how you handle things because until you make it through an entire season the entire thing is very fragile .

[chitownsports4ever]

I think I would trade Zach for pieces that "fit" also. The problem is, Zach is our best frontcourt player. Everyone likes what they see from Eddy when Eddy isn't on the court, but let's be real here. What we saw from Eddy last year was a little, and very little at that, more consistency, but the same lack of effort, lack of rebounding, lack of defensive intensity, player that NY and Chicago fans have seen for the better part of a decade.

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again. I would trade ANYONE on this team for a decent to good glue guy. Shane Battier anyone? However, to say that we're stuck with Zach being such a bad thing is out of hand. I'd trade Eddy Curry three times before I'd trade Zach. And honestly, if we some lockdown defenders on the perimeter, I'd be in favor of keeping both until their values were raised high enought that we'd get at the very least some minimal talent and lottery picks for them. Anything less, would be uncivilized...hehe

there is no such thing in the entire nba .You show me some lockdown perimeter guys and Ill show you some hustling arse bigs behind them.If you try and tell me Zach and Curry are out their hustling Im gonna shut this site down for the next twenty four hours and put a Jerome james highlight reel on.