I am not impressed with the Knicks so far..

J9Starks3 · Post #21 » by **J9Starks3** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:10 pm

The Knicks problems didnt start under Isiah. It started by trading Ewing and not letting his contract come off the books and every GM has compounded that mistake by recycling garbage contracts/players for the next "get rich quick" scheme...

We finally have a GM who isnt trying to shoot his load as fast as possible!

Our current situation is 100% on Isiah's head. He drafted/signed/traded for every player on the team.

Knick 4ever · Post #22 » by **Knick 4ever** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:14 pm

NYC2BGI wrote:
Cosmic wrote:It's been what, 8 weeks? With a chance to do what... have draft night?

What on earth do you and others expect to have happened in that amount of time?

You do realize this team is a complete mess.
We hired a GM who is patient and willing to work with his coach.
We hired a coach who has a game plan in mind.

We have a GM and Coach who are on the same exact page and working together to put a new plan in place.

THIS IS GOING TO TAKE 18 MONTHS MINIMUM TO START LOOKING GOOD

Not 8 weeks.....not 1 draft....not 1 summer....not 1 feb deadline.

Jeez....
I totally agree. We don't have the young talent or draft picks to trade away like the Celtics did last year to do a quick fix. If you look at NBA history, except for the Celtics going from worst to NBA championship, it usually takes a few years to turn around a bad team like ours. We could get 1 good guy and suddenly make the playoffs, but to win it all will take patience. We true Knicks fans don't want to just make the playoffs we want the whole thing since it has been since 1973. The championship drought for the Knicks (35 years) is older than many of the people who post on this board.

I can't wait for that day, but it won't happen with D'Anthoni and the guys Walsh and D'Anthoni want to keep around. To win Championship, you are to be able to defend. The Celts once again proved that this season.

sims · Post #23 » by **sims** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:14 pm

i think a lot of people are spoiled by the portland rebuild, where kevin pritchard came in and made 6 trades on draft night and was incredibly aggressive in targeting guys and unloading contracts. i'm not sure that we're going to have the flexibility to do the same thing, but i do know that our guys are going to focus on the tear-down first. really, we have no other option. most of our guys will require us to take back ugly deals in trades if we're going to get any picks or prospects that are worth the effort, so in that sense waiting is actually the smarter option.

i was hoping that we'd be a little more aggressive in the draft, at least in the late first or second round (i can't fault donnie for not being able to get the 5th pick or a mid-1st rounder . . . teams don't just give those assets away and it's not like we're playing with the strongest hand of cards), because we really do need to get some fresh blood in here. i'm positive some trades are forthcoming and will fit our plan to a T. we know what needs to be done and unfortunately we can't shoot from the hip just yet. we just don't have the roster space.

that said, we now have an elite coach and we had a great draft and got a potential franchise cornerstone to play the 3/4. can't argue with that.

TinyLinny · Post #24 » by **TinyLinny** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:15 pm

Knick 4ever wrote:I am a very patient man, I just don't like what I have seen thus far. For years we've knowned that we are in need of defense in the worse way, but we have never taken the proper steps to fix that. We hired Brown, but turned around and traded for Curry, Q, Crawford whom are not known to ever play defense. For years we've known that we need to bring in a backup PG, but we have never addressed that situation either. The Knicks problems did not just start under Isiah.

This is an entirely new step for us. What is there to be disappointed in thus far? Our draft pick? He was the BPA as far as I'm concerned. When was the last time we had our President/GM and Coach on the same page? Working towards getting the ideal players to work in any system?

What are we going to do to address our defensive problems? Rehire Larry Brown or steal away Popovich? lol

D'Antoni and Walsh are premiere NBA icons. This pairing may have seemed odd at first, but realize they are winners and come from a different culture than we're used to.

And as for the Knicks problems, that started when we traded away Patrick and snowballed as soon as JVG left. So it wasn't entirely Isiah, but he did far more damage than anyone else could've done.

Cosmic · Post #25 » by **Cosmic** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:19 pm

Knick 4ever wrote:
I am a very patient man, I just don't like what I have seen thus far. For years we've knowned that we are in need of defense in the worse way, but we have never taken the proper steps to fix that. We hired Brown, but turned around and traded for Curry, Q, Crawford whom are not known to ever play defense. For years we've known that we need to bring in a backup PG, but we have never addressed that situation either. The Knicks problems did not just start under Isiah.

Well, that is a different story. Not all of us are going to agree with the new game plan but we have no choice but to sit back and watch it take shape.

Nobody said it's going to work but the bottom line is we have a GM and Coach who are both held in high regard in the basketball world and who are both working together to try to improve this franchise. While you might not like their direction the fact is they will improve the team and they will improve the image of the franchise as a whole.

We have no choice but to support them while they work.

I think the earliest we really begin to see success would be around February of 2010.

They aren't going to add 1 draftee and make 1 trade and then BOOM we're going to roll through the league.

We're not going to be a "winning" team for quite some time.

They're not a bunch of Isiahs and we're not a team that's 1 piece away from anything here.

So while you don't like the direction or game plan if you want to remain a Knick fan you have no choice but to be patient with it while the plan evolves. Results won't come for a minimum of 18 months IMO.

If we still suck come mid 2009-2010 season then let the roasting begin.....

Knick 4ever · Post #26 » by **Knick 4ever** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:20 pm

sims wrote:i think a lot of people are spoiled by the portland rebuild, where kevin pritchard came in and made 6 trades on draft night and was incredibly aggressive in targeting guys and unloading contracts. i'm not sure that we're going to have the flexibility to do the same thing, but i do know that our guys are going to focus on the tear-down first. really, we have no other option. most of our guys will require us to take back ugly deals in trades if we're going to get any picks or prospects that are worth the effort, so in that sense waiting is actually the smarter option.

i was hoping that we'd be a little more aggressive in the draft, at least in the late first or second round (i can't fault donnie for not being able to get the 5th pick or a mid-1st rounder . . . teams don't just give those assets away and it's not like we're playing with the strongest hand of cards), because we really do need to get some fresh blood in here. i'm positive some trades are forthcoming and will fit our plan to a T. we know what needs to be done and unfortunately we can't shoot from the hip just yet. we just don't have the roster space.

that said, we now have an elite coach and we had a great draft and got a potential franchise cornerstone to play the 3/4. can't argue with that.

I am not spoiled by what Portland did at all. I was hoping Walsh would trade the 6th pick for a chance to move some bad contracts, but that was not the case. I don't know much about Gallinari; I am willing to give him a chance to prove himself. However, I know a hell of a lot about Jerome James, Q Richardson, Curry, and Crawford. We need to do whatever is necessary to get all of those guys out of town.

TinyLinny · Post #27 » by **TinyLinny** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:22 pm

Knick 4ever wrote:However, I know a hell of a lot about Jerome James, Q Richardson, Curry, and Crawford. We need to do whatever is necessary to get all of those guys out of town.

Are you denying that Walsh is trying to do just that? He's made it known that he doesn't want to add to our cap and is exploring many trade options to rid the team of those gluttonous contracts.

HarpStarkOakEw · Post #28 » by **HarpStarkOakEw** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:26 pm

walsh and antoni were not brought in to govern and coach this group of guys so to say this team needed a defensive coach is a mistake. The same group of guys wont be here in 2 years and then perhaps the new guys will need an offensive genius like antoni.

Knick 4ever · Post #29 » by **Knick 4ever** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:29 pm

Cosmic wrote:
Knick 4ever wrote:
I am a very patient man, I just don't like what I have seen thus far. For years we've knowned that we are in need of defense in the worse way, but we have never taken the proper steps to fix that. We hired Brown, but turned around and traded for Curry, Q, Crawford whom are not known to ever play defense. For years we've known that we need to bring in a backup PG, but we have never addressed that situation either. The Knicks problems did not just start under Isiah.

Well, that is a different story. Not all of us are going to agree with the new game plan but we have no choice but to sit back and watch it take shape.

Nobody said it's going to work but the bottom line is we have a GM and Coach who are both held in high regard in the basketball world and who are both working together to try to improve this franchise. While you might not like their direction the fact is they will improve the team and they will improve the image of the franchise as a whole.

We have no choice but to support them while they work.

I think the earliest we really begin to see success would be around February of 2010.

They aren't going to add 1 draftee and make 1 trade and then BOOM we're going to roll through the league.

We're not going to be a "winning" team for quite some time.

They're not a bunch of Isiahs and we're not a team that's 1 piece away from anything here.

So while you don't like the direction or game plan if you want to remain a Knick fan you have no choice but to be patient with it while the plan evolves. Results won't come for a minimum of 18 months IMO.

If we still suck come mid 2009-2010 season then let the roasting begin.....

Cos! I agree with you, but I am not sure I will be around in 2010; a lot can happen during that time. All I wish for is for the Knicks to finally become a winning team again. I am tired of being ridiculed in the media. I am a proud fan, and I hope to remain as such.

Ralphie96 · Post #30 » by **Ralphie96** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:40 pm

Seriously guys...where is the progress??? Forget the season...we need progress after the draft...we should a better team now!!!!!!! We are supposed to be better...especially BEFORE the season...I mean com'on....Where's the progress??????????????

green font.

jayknicks · Post #31 » by **jayknicks** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:49 pm

I think it would be unfair to judge Walsh's vision right now..it may not be the direction some may have wanted him to take but that doesn't already declare him to be a failure..anything more than winning 30+ games next yr will be a success to the disaster we had last year...team unity will be a success over the disaster we had last year..there is never one solution to success..and for the first time we aren't being ridiculed by the media...and those guys are the first to say anything..so it would be fair to at least be silent til they decide not to be

HarpStarkOakEw · Post #32 » by **HarpStarkOakEw** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:50 pm

u know whats funny....by simply getting rid of isiah that is a freakin boatload of progress already!

Then you add a no nonsense President that people have to answer to. Then a dedicated coach who actually knows how to.....ummm coach and we are well on our way. With the same squad antoni can get 30 wins out of this bunch easily. IMO- RIGHT NOW WE ARE ALREADY PROJECTED TO BE +7 WINS! and thats without roster moves

Forget what the roster looks like...if u want to win it starts with the front office and as far as im concerned we got that covered.

TdoubleE · Post #33 » by **TdoubleE** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:03 pm

Threads like this is why they say rebuilding will never work in NY. Not one game played, not even a summer league game, and 2 days into FA and already bashing moves.

Give it a chance, it will take at least 3 years for this franchise to recover from what Layden and Isiah did to it. We can only do so much in the meantime, or we risk repeating the same cycle of brining in flawed players that dont fit.

HarpStarkOakEw wrote:u know whats funny....by simply getting rid of isiah that is a freakin boatload of progress already!

Amen. If we did nothing else, I would still say we are going in the right direction with that one move.

Post #34 » by **j4remi** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:12 pm

cosign above poster. What's sad is he's demanding defensive minded players like the attempt for Duhon isn't a move to improve our D as well as aquiring a pass first guard. Look at what's available right now and you should realize getting better with just the MLE is impossible. Complaining about Zbo, Crawford, and Curry is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Walsh is publicly trying to move these guys and can't get them out of town. They have almost no value. It's ridiculous to expect some major improvement in two days, at least wait until the opportunity to make trades arises. Don't judge this new management on a draft pick and using the MLE, that's just foolish.

Paeds · Post #35 » by **Paeds** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:22 pm

No moves?

1. Isiah has no power
2. brought in a elite coach with 50+ wins every season who is also player friendly that has a system that Free Agents will want to play inj. (who doesnt olike to score and shoot)
3. drafted a 6'10 19 yr old who has the most experience and was arguably the BPA
4. attempting to sign a young, defensive pg with a great asst/T.O ratio
5. Has pubically said we need shotblocking

What is the problem?

Big C · Post #36 » by **Big C** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:28 pm

You can't wait until December to make your assessment? lol

Knick 4ever · Post #37 » by **Knick 4ever** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:40 pm

You guys are right, maybe I need to just wait and see. However, we've been down this road before.

Big C · Post #38 » by **Big C** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 3:19 pm

Knick 4ever wrote:You guys are right, maybe I need to just wait and see. However, we've been down this road before.

It's not wise to bash the Knicks before they have not even played a game yet. if the Knicks show progress they make the playoffs. If the Knicks suck they get a first round pick.

Post #39 » by **Flaming Mo** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 3:27 pm

A couple of months can't be the standard for judging Walsh or/and D'antoni. First of all we have a proven winning coach in D'Antoni who has always been well respected around the league, among players and fans. Unlike guys as Larry Brown or Isiah he comes without negativity of baggage.

Now to Gallinari, that moves shows us a ton in my opinion. We aren't afriad to go overseas, something Isiah somehow always refused to do, and we went quite a different way. He's a good kid, very talented and a move for the future, the long term future. That is something we also lacked in recent years - the view for the long haul and the eye for long term plans. For everyone who was calling for Walsh's head after there were the Diaw/Barbosa rumors, I think this draftee basically puts an end to it.

Walsh and D'Antoni's importance for this franchise can't be judged just by the way the team plays or the way how things happen on the court. These twp bring credibility and also respectability back to the Garden, the locker room and to the franchise in general. No more media codes, player fights, scandals and stuff like that. We can't expect to have the entire team and entire culture changed over the course of a few months. Walsh and MD know that and that's one reason why they drafted Gallinari. Nobody knows about his defense yet or what a system MD will play. It basically doesn't matter next year. Who cares what defense a rookie plays next to Crawford, Zach or Curry. It's about a few years down the road when the malcontents are gone and someone who wants to tell me that Gallinari by then can't be a cornerstone of this team and a good defender, well, he would be nuts to make such predictions now after not seeing Gallinari in ONE SINGLE game...

Knick 4ever · Post #40 » by **Knick 4ever** » Thu Jul 3, 2008 3:38 pm

One thing is for sure, we will have something that we have not had in a long time (a style or a system). Isiah could have made good during his tenure had he adopted his primary plan (the quick). We were built to run, but he chose a different route when he decided to go down low to Eddie Curry. Water under the bridge.