Anyone else tired of hearing Lebron 2010?

[mjhp911]

Well, we're not going to get LBJ. But I do agree that I see some concerns with what Walsh is trying to do. If we're DEFINITELY going to under the cap in '10, then there's really no reason to keep all our long deals. We are better off completely tearing it down (which the owner still won't allow). But if we do want to still compete, then we should also allow ourselves the 'flexibility' of blowing our cap on someone who WILL be worth it, even if it's through the trade market, or a re-signing (i.e. - Lee). I'll have to see how it plays out, but I am concerned about it.

[kosmovitelli]

He'll never be loyal to us. The guy is money hungry. That's a weakness of his that will get him no where as far a winning a championship goes. If you think about all the greats that have ever won a championship they were never as greedy for money as this dude. The game was all that mattered to them. I know it sounds crazy now but just wait and see. His focus is geared more towards money than basketball. He has the physical ability to be the greatest but not the mental. As far as team accomplishments go, he'll never accomplish more than Kobe, Jordan or even Wade.

You're talking about Ewing right ???? LOL

Coming from a guy who has Patrick Ewing as his avatar, it's really funny.
Do you really think Jordan was playing for free ? The guy refused to play for less than $30M and he was right. Why would he accept less money than his owner is capable of paying ?

Despite being on the decline (he was 35), Ewing threatened to leave the team as a FA if he didn't get the fat extension he wanted in 1997. Grunfeld and Checketts caved in and offered him a crazy 4 yr and $67M extension. 3 years later, he was on his last leg and entering the final season of his contract, Ewing said he wanted to play 2 more seasons and once again requested an extension. This time, Checketts was smart enough to refuse and Ewing requested a trade ! He was traded to Seattle. Talk about loyalty ! LOL

I don't even bash Ewing. He was right to ask for more money, it's up to the team to refuse.
It's the same for all players, it's fair for them to ask for the max, it's up to their teams to be fiscally responsible and refuse to pay more than the player is worth to the team.

Lebron is no different. If you were in his shoes you would do the same.

If Lebron comes here, he will be under contract and it's the only thing that matters. There is no need for loyalty and there's no loyalty in the NBA anyway. It's a business ! Get real !

[kosmovitelli]

If you don't get LeBron you'll be a young team with short contracts, and expiring deals.

Exactly. It's not even about Lebron. Its about achieving flexibility to do whatever we want. Its about getting rid of our overpayed/longterm vets and starting to build around youth. We have to clean out our roster and that entails getting rid of the overpaid guys. Its not like we are trying to get rid of superstars here. We are talking about getting rid of guys who havent won much in the NBA. These guys just arent that good and until we get rid of them we are going nowhere. So when Donnie says we need to try to get under the cap by 2010 that is code for saying we need to get rid of Zach/Curry/Jeffries/maybe even Jamal.

I just don't think people fully understand what our plan is or what getting a manageable financial roster means in the NBA today.

You're right. Some will never understand what cap flexibility means.

It's mind boggling that after 7 consecutive losing seasons with a $90M+ roster, some people still fail to understand how important is salary cap flexibility for a losing team.

The Sixers just signed Elton Brand as a FA. The Clippers got Marcus Camby for free.

I guess some still want to trade expiring contracts and/or picks for the likes of Antonio McDyess, Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford or Zach Randolph. Or maybe they're happy using the max MLE on Clarence Weatherspoon, Jerome James or Jared Jeffries.

For what it's worth, Walsh never talked about Lebron but the crop of FAs in 2010. His thinking is we can fail to win the Lebron sweepstakes but we won't have our basket empty. There will be lots of good FAs available in 2010 and 2011.
The funny thing is I always hear "we won't get Lebron" but when d'Antoni became available, all Bulls fans claimed he was theirs and there was no way he would sign with the Knicks ! LOL
Walsh already convinced d'Antoni to join the Knicks, now if we make progress every year I have no problem thinking we can get a pretty good FA in 2010 or 2011. We have everything to entice an all star player : a competent GM, a very good coach, a great city, the best arena in the NBA. The only thing we lack is money and we will get that decisive advantage when we will be under the cap.

Bottom line is there is no need to be $30 or $40M over the cap when you're a 23 win team.
Walsh is simply doing what we should have done in 2001. It's long overdue. I'm glad we finally have a GM who has the balls to accept the possibility of being mediocre (it doesn't mean we will be and I don't think we will be but it's still a possibility) and who refused to upgrade the roster at all costs with win now moves.

[j4remi]

there is nothing wrong with aiming to get under the cap in 2010.
there is everything wrong with trying to do it at the expense of the talent we have already, the competitiveness of the team and the loyalty of the fanbase.

The only prevalent talent in my eyes would be Wilson Chandler and possibly Gallinari. Lee is a great role player but nothing more, Nate is a volume scorer with skills to be a decent back-up PG, and who else on the line-up is really a talent worth anything? The point is, almost our entire roster is expendable and I'd rather move pieces and get picks even the "talent" that might hurt some fans feelings. People would get over Lee fast if Gallinari came in and started dropping numbers with Ricky Rubio or Lance Stephenson being the reward for one more hard season (we've been through plenty as it is). As hard as it is to admit, a losing season sacrificed in order to get legitimate talent wouldn't be the worst thing going into next season.

[KOA]

Kos I agree that we have to get under the cap, but at what expense? Walsh seems to want to get rid of our young talent just to avoid resigning them in 2010. This is one of the reasons he traded away Renaldo Balkman for scraps.

If we really want to do this the right way, then we should get rid of players like Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry, and Zach Randolph without giving up any picks or young talent. In fact, we should be able to get more assets in return because these guys are still fairly young and can be very productive.

The next thing we would have to do is trade for a star player, because signing one star player won't get you anywhere as demonstrated by Atlanta signing Joe Johnson.

The thing that worries me the most is that 2010 really doesn't have as good of a free agent class as everyone is making it out to be. The only players that are worth going for are LBJ, Wade, and Bosh. Pretty much every other player is over the hill (or will be over the hill) or is simply not a star player.

I have a feeling we would end up being like Chicago or Orlando who overpaid for players that were really not good to begin with (Ben Wallace and Rashard Lewis). This would actually be worse than our current situation since we will be stuck in mediocrity with no way of getting out of it for at least the next 5 seasons.

Walsh has not really made any moves which should warrant our trust. In fact, so far it is quite the opposite.

[kosmovitelli]

Kos I agree that we have to get under the cap, but at what expense? Walsh seems to want to get rid of our young talent just to avoid resigning them in 2010. This is one of the reasons he traded away Renaldo Balkman for scraps.

Balkman was paid around $1.4M so it wasn't really about cap flexibility. How much do you think Balkman can get on the market anyway ? It wasn't about resigning him, we would not resign him because we don't need him. It was either trade him or let him walk as a free agent. Balkman was drafted in 2006 so we didn't need to resign him until 2010 so it wasn't really about avoiding to resign him.
Mike D'Antoni and Donnie Walsh are pretty high on Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari.
Renaldo was traded because he wasn't going to play and he didn't fit into d'Antoni's plans.
The Nets wanted to get rid of Marcus Williams and they got a 1st round pick in return. Balkman was cheap and available and we only got a 2nd rounder for Balkman, Enough said. He wasn't that good.

Don't worry about getting under the cap at the expense of competitiveness. Donnie already said he wanted to remain competitive. He won't sacrifice assets.
Donnie talked about 2010 but if he can't then it will be 2011. We've been over the cap for ages so 2010 or 2011 I don't really care.

Frankly, just listen to what Donnie says, he's speaking the truth so far. He refused to trade Zach Randolph because the offer (whatever it was) wasn't good enough for him. He said he wants to see what he has before making a decision. He believes Isiah's ineptitude as GM and head coach ruined our players value so he wants to take time to see if d'Antoni can fix this, build chemistry and can make this roster competitive enough to win enough games to be respectable again and make our players attractive to other teams. Let's get real, if he was on the Knicks, a player like Shawn Marion would have been considered vastly overpaid the past 4 years but on the Suns nobody talked about his contract because he was worth it on the Suns as they were championship contenders.
Even if they are overpaid, all our players are under contract until 2010 or 2011 so Donnie's just trying to get the most out of them. He won't build around Randolph, Curry or Crawford, he's just trying to make them earn their contracts while they're still on the roster.

Isiah's bigest mistake was trashing the previous regime and making everyone believe he inherited of a garbage roster (a roster that won 37 games the previous season) so he could revamp it within a few months and prove everyone he was so much better than Layden and was a great executive.
The worth thing Wlash could do at this point is trying to revamp the roster and get rid of all Isiah's players in the next few months. Donnie's simply doing what Isiah should have done 4 years ago : use a roster that won 37 games the previous season, add one or two cheap pieces here and there to make the playoffs or at least stay competitive and wait for 2006/2007 (when all our bad contracts expired).

A this point, there is no need to sacrifice anyone. If we stand pat we will be under the cap in 2011.
Being under the cap in 2010 would just be a bonus. 2011 is fine with me and I believe Walsh also thinks like that. I don't think he wants to be under the cap in 2010 at all costs. It's just a goal and if it's not doable then 2011 is plan B. Lots of thing can happen before 2010 anyway.

[chitownsports4ever]

So wait a minute ....

Walsh traded fringe nba player Balkman because he was afraid he would have to resign him 2 years from now ?

A winning mentality under a new regime must start immediately .It would be nice for a team to say hey lets just lose games and cut players and every year we get the number one pick and at our time of choosing we flip that switch and instantly start winning games . Buts thats utter BS because either you are trying to establish a winning organization or you are selling pipe dreams of high draft picks = instant winning.

The knicks are not in a position where a full tear down and rebuild is feasible simply because they are not that old of a team to start with.Even if they want to go for a elite talent two summers from now they still have a year and a half to evaluate the roster and get things headed in the right direction.The knicks have enough talent now where they can take their time and wait for opportunities over the next 18 months while still having that 2010-2011 goals in mind .The better the knicks become over the next two summers the smaller the amount of cap space that they will need and the expirings become just as valuable to them.

I think I said last week that I think it is absolutely imperative that we protect our ability to get into the free agent market in three years. With that being said, I think it is also equally important, and probably trickier, to make this team more competitive right away. So if you are asking me, ideally, what direction would you like to go in, I want it all. I want a team that can play against a big team or small team, a team that can run with Phoenix and I guess play with San Antonio. I think when you put a team together you have to put it together with the idea of playoffs and the ultimate prize in the playoffs, so you have to have all the elements. Or that process has got to start as quickly as we can. But you can’t do it in a way that is going to interfere with our cap position, because it has been a long time since we have been able to get flexibility with the cap and that is on the horizon, so that is what I would like to do.

[GuyverADL]

I want Bayless or Gordon in a Knick uniform. PERIOD.

We need not waste cap space on aging second tier bums.

I want to be able to sign a guy to a max offer sheet. There are going to be cheap teams out there.

Hopefully Memphis gets cheap and we snag Rudy Gay.

Realistically we need our lotto picks in '09 and '10.

We need to send the Jazz anyone not named Gallinari to get our pick back. Plain and simple.

I'd send them Chandler for our 2010 pick back and I think Chandler is our best 2-way player.

[cgf]

I want Bayless or Gordon in a Knick uniform. PERIOD.

We need not waste cap space on aging second tier bums.

I want to be able to sign a guy to a max offer sheet. There are going to be cheap teams out there.

Hopefully Memphis gets cheap and we snag Rudy Gay.

Realistically we need our lotto picks in '09 and '10.

We need to send the Jazz anyone not named Gallinari to get our pick back. Plain and simple.

I'd send them Chandler for our 2010 pick back and I think Chandler is our best 2-way player.

Why would we want Bayless or Gordon? Especially with Craw, nate and Marbs already on the roster?

[method]

As hard as it is to admit, a losing season sacrificed in order to get legitimate talent wouldn't be the worst thing going into next season.

agreed

[duetta]

The more I think of it, the more that I prefer Walsh to focus on 2011 rather than 2010.

I agree that the Knicks have to avoid giving out long, ugly contracts, and to be sure that every deal they do negotiate, is at a scale that other teams would also be willing to pay. But given the choice of every player who might come available between now and 2011, Dwight Howard comes as close to my definition of a legit franchise player as you can get. If the Italian works out, you can still just slot Dwight into the center position.

[ComeOnKnicks]

I would love for us to get one of the big name players when they are available, as long as we have a good team to surround them with. Otherwise I'll rather take a good team with a few smaller "stars"
You definitely need those good complimentary players at least to go with a LeBron or whoever we could be lucky enough to sign.

[cgf]

The more I think of it, the more that I prefer Walsh to focus on 2011 rather than 2010.

I agree that the Knicks have to avoid giving out long, ugly contracts, and to be sure that every deal they do negotiate, is at a scale that other teams would also be willing to pay. But given the choice of every player who might come available between now and 2011, Dwight Howard comes as close to my definition of a legit franchise player as you can get. If the Italian works out, you can still just slot Dwight into the center position.

Dwight, gallo, chandler and rubio with nate and lee on the bench...i just creamed my pants.

[GnarlsOakley]

Brandon Roy, whenever he hits the open market

[ITGM]

Brandon Jennings
Wade
Chandler
Gallinari
Bosh

2010 lets go....