To the both candidates suck crowd..

[stuporman]

Ask BB, he said politicians do it and seemed to be ok with that. I didn't say it nor do I feel you can compromise your ideals in the pursuit of your ideals. The end doesn't justify the means contrary to common belief.

I don't have to spin anything, their actions and words tell the whole story.

[Kyrama]

Ron Paul will save us! We need to go back, literally and figuratively, to 1776!

[randomhero423]

then tell me what barack obama ideals are, and how they betrayed them. i'd like to know.

if by betraying them means writing two successful books, then that's an idiotic statement.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

And I'm not even saying that Obama or any other politician is a saint or morally perfect. What I am saying is that I think it's unfair to say that all politicians are all bad. It's that kind of black or white thinking that blinds people to true differences between candidates. Sure candidates sometimes have to compromise on their ideals for the greater good or to advance a more important cause. That's the way politics is, and that's the way life is. I just think it's too easy for people to just dismiss all politicians as evil and then act like it doesn't matter who you vote for.

I tend to believe that pretty much all politicians (or rather, those that have made it this far up the ladder) are at least somewhat corrupt. It comes with the territory.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little jaded/realistic when it comes to this stuff. What's wrong is to assume that all candidates are equally corrupt or evil, and as you say, adopt the attitude that it does not matter. However, the difference between the lesser and the greater of two evils can often be enormous.

[Bill Bradley]

Ask BB, he said politicians do it and seemed to be ok with that. I didn't say it nor do I feel you can compromise your ideals in the pursuit of your ideals. The end doesn't justify the means contrary to common belief.

I don't have to spin anything, their actions and words tell the whole story.

Yes, welcome to the real world. Sometimes politicians have to make compromises. It's how the world works. They have to give in on one issue in order to further another. That is the essence of politics. In what planet are politics any different from that?

And yes, that's also how things work in the real world.

[Kyrama]

And I'm not even saying that Obama or any other politician is a saint or morally perfect. What I am saying is that I think it's unfair to say that all politicians are all bad. It's that kind of black or white thinking that blinds people to true differences between candidates. Sure candidates sometimes have to compromise on their ideals for the greater good or to advance a more important cause. That's the way politics is, and that's the way life is. I just think it's too easy for people to just dismiss all politicians as evil and then act like it doesn't matter who you vote for.

I tend to believe that pretty much all politicians (or rather, those that have made it this far up the ladder) are at least somewhat corrupt. It comes with the territory.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little jaded/realistic when it comes to this stuff. What's wrong is to assume that all candidates are equally corrupt or evil, and as you say, adopt the attitude that it does not matter. However, the difference between the lesser and the greater of two evils can often be enormous.

Show me a candidate for Congress or president who hasn't done something you would deem "corrupt" at one point or another. Unfortunately in our world a completely fair, honest and just man who hasn't made a single questionable move cannot succeed in politics.

[stuporman]

My point exactly. My work is done here...thanks for the laughs.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

And I'm not even saying that Obama or any other politician is a saint or morally perfect. What I am saying is that I think it's unfair to say that all politicians are all bad. It's that kind of black or white thinking that blinds people to true differences between candidates. Sure candidates sometimes have to compromise on their ideals for the greater good or to advance a more important cause. That's the way politics is, and that's the way life is. I just think it's too easy for people to just dismiss all politicians as evil and then act like it doesn't matter who you vote for.

I tend to believe that pretty much all politicians (or rather, those that have made it this far up the ladder) are at least somewhat corrupt. It comes with the territory.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little jaded/realistic when it comes to this stuff. What's wrong is to assume that all candidates are equally corrupt or evil, and as you say, adopt the attitude that it does not matter. However, the difference between the lesser and the greater of two evils can often be enormous.

Show me a candidate for Congress or president who hasn't done something you would deem "corrupt" at one point or another. Unfortunately in our world a completely fair, honest and just man who hasn't made a single questionable move cannot succeed in politics.

I can't. I'm not sure I understand your post. In the first line of mine, I stated my belief that all politicians are corrupt in some form.

[Kyrama]

I tend to believe that pretty much all politicians (or rather, those that have made it this far up the ladder) are at least somewhat corrupt. It comes with the territory.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little jaded/realistic when it comes to this stuff. What's wrong is to assume that all candidates are equally corrupt or evil, and as you say, adopt the attitude that it does not matter. However, the difference between the lesser and the greater of two evils can often be enormous.

Show me a candidate for Congress or president who hasn't done something you would deem "corrupt" at one point or another. Unfortunately in our world a completely fair, honest and just man who hasn't made a single questionable move cannot succeed in politics.

I can't. I'm not sure I understand your post. In the first line of mine, I stated my belief that all politicians are corrupt in some form.

Sorry man, I quoted the wrong post.

[eviL]

There is no such thing as lesser of two evils. Evil is just evil and both are plain evil.

I'm everywhere..

[Bill Bradley]

My point exactly. My work is done here...thanks for the laughs.

Actually, I think your point was more or less refuted in this thread. I basically agree with JSTD in that politicians are not perfect (or even corrupt) and they may need to compromise their ideals to succeed in politics. However, the important point is that not all politicans are equally corrupt and "evil", and I maintain that there are plenty of politicians who go into politics with the intention of helping people.

Ask yourself this- do you think that you have done more good in your life than Barrack Obama? It is easy to sit back and say that all politicans are evil, but the fact is that some politicians are much more capable of bringing about social change than others and improving people's lives.

[DMan101]

My point exactly. My work is done here...thanks for the laughs.

Actually, I think your point was more or less refuted in this thread. I basically agree with JSTD in that politicians are not perfect (or even corrupt) and they may need to compromise their ideals to succeed in politics. However, the important point is that not all politicans are equally corrupt and "evil", and I maintain that there are plenty of politicians who go into politics with the intention of helping people.

Ask yourself this- do you think that you have done more good in your life than Barrack Obama? It is easy to sit back and say that all politicans are evil, but the fact is that some politicians are much more capable of bringing about social change than others and improving people's lives.

[stuporman]

So the point of compromising ideals to succeed in politics is different from what I said how? They are getting paid on our dime to live those ideals they are getting elected on and claiming they are living. Not I. There is a difference. If you're ok with them doing this and don't find it offensive or evil, that's yours, not mine. Rationalization and justification is self medicating to the ego but the self-conscious doesn't get fooled. There is a standard of true that is not subject to interpretation, not measured with incremental merits and not justified through comparison. Either you live it or you don't. Morality, that's debatable. True is not. Obscure, rationalize and justify to the heart's content and the ego's satisfaction it doesn't change the core and value of true.

You all have clearly explained my point whether you care to admit it or not.

[roy10]

Whats wrong with Obama/Biden ticket. The Mccain/ Palin totally understandable but I don't see anything wrong with Obama/Biden other than the fact that Joe Biden has no tact.

What's wrong with Obama - Biden? Here's what's wrong - Joe Biden about a year ago said he has no problem living with a nuclear Iran. Where do you think the first Iranian made nuke will go off? Hint - it's not Israel.

I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THIS - IF Iran gets nukes, one of them will g off in NYC within two years. GUARANTEED. The day after Biden was nominated, Iranian media was going ecstatic, saying how great it was for Iran, since Biden was an appeaser, quoting him that he can "live" with Iran's nuclear program. When they start going ecstatic in Iranian media about a candidate, I KNOW something is wrong with the guy.

No Biden for me, thank you very much. I don't appreciate getting nuked.

[Bill Bradley]

Joe Biden about a year ago said he has no problem living with a nuclear Iran.

Link?

[randomhero423]

http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/200 ... nergy.html

roy what the hell are you talking about

[VinnyTheMick]

Whats wrong with Obama/Biden ticket. The Mccain/ Palin totally understandable but I don't see anything wrong with Obama/Biden other than the fact that Joe Biden has no tact.

What's wrong with Obama - Biden? Here's what's wrong - Joe Biden about a year ago said he has no problem living with a nuclear Iran. Where do you think the first Iranian made nuke will go off? Hint - it's not Israel.

I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THIS - IF Iran gets nukes, one of them will g off in NYC within two years. GUARANTEED. The day after Biden was nominated, Iranian media was going ecstatic, saying how great it was for Iran, since Biden was an appeaser, quoting him that he can "live" with Iran's nuclear program. When they start going ecstatic in Iranian media about a candidate, I KNOW something is wrong with the guy.

No Biden for me, thank you very much. I don't appreciate getting nuked.

Do you realize that Iran does not currently have missiles capable of hitting the United States? Iran's current missile program doesn't even have the technology to create missiles that would hit Poland for Christ's sakes!

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/27/ ... 27iran.php

The current range of Iran’s Shahab missiles is said to be 1,200 miles, but the United States and Iran are much more than 1,200 miles apart. The approximate distance between Tehran and Washington, D.C. is actually 6,340 miles.


Moreover, many in Iran hate their government. Do some goddamned research, man.

The paradox of Iran is that it just might be the most pro-American – perhaps the least anti-American – populace in the Muslim world. (Those under 30 are too young to remember the anti-American sentiment of the '50s and '60s and share little of their parents' ideology.)

Molavi says it is apparent that Iran's youth are the most disenchanted with the current government and that young people make up the bulk of the Iranian population (70 percent of which is under 30!). And nearly three-fourths of the Iranians Molavi polled said they want their government to restore dialogue with the United States.

The students tend to shun politics and embrace practical goals, such as getting a job and being admitted into a foreign graduate school. They're like us – they want a better future, more prosperous lives.

The young Iranians love our movies, television, books and culture. And what we may not know about them is that they have an unquenchable thirst for choice and opportunity. Consequently, 150,000 Iranian professionals leave the country each year, one of the highest rates of "brain drain" in the Middle East.

Young Iranian women are obsessed with their appearance. As CBS news correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports, "They're lining up in record numbers to improve on the look nature gave them with cosmetic surgery." The most popular form of plastic surgery in America is liposuction, but in Iran, where the female form is kept largely under wraps, women prefer to spend the money where they can show it off.

"Iran, where the morality police used to confiscate eyeliner and lip gloss, is now the nose job capitol of the world," says one young Iranian lady. "A Western nose is more beautiful." The Persian nose, it seems, is out of style.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art ... 1052.shtml

Get some facts or log off, pal.

[roy10]

Moreover, many in Iran hate their government. Do some goddamned research, man.

The paradox of Iran is that it just might be the most pro-American – perhaps the least anti-American – populace in the Muslim world. (Those under 30 are too young to remember the anti-American sentiment of the '50s and '60s and share little of their parents' ideology.)

Molavi says it is apparent that Iran's youth are the most disenchanted with the current government and that young people make up the bulk of the Iranian population (70 percent of which is under 30!). And nearly three-fourths of the Iranians Molavi polled said they want their government to restore dialogue with the United States.

The students tend to shun politics and embrace practical goals, such as getting a job and being admitted into a foreign graduate school. They're like us – they want a better future, more prosperous lives.

The young Iranians love our movies, television, books and culture. And what we may not know about them is that they have an unquenchable thirst for choice and opportunity. Consequently, 150,000 Iranian professionals leave the country each year, one of the highest rates of "brain drain" in the Middle East.

Young Iranian women are obsessed with their appearance. As CBS news correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports, "They're lining up in record numbers to improve on the look nature gave them with cosmetic surgery." The most popular form of plastic surgery in America is liposuction, but in Iran, where the female form is kept largely under wraps, women prefer to spend the money where they can show it off.

"Iran, where the morality police used to confiscate eyeliner and lip gloss, is now the nose job capitol of the world," says one young Iranian lady. "A Western nose is more beautiful." The Persian nose, it seems, is out of style.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art ... 1052.shtml

Get some facts or log off, pal.

I don't give a damn if many in Iran hate their government. Many in Germany hated Hitler as well. So? How will that help me when the Iranian government nukes NYC?

[roy10]

Joe Biden about a year ago said he has no problem living with a nuclear Iran.

Link?

Gave two links in the other thread.

[VinnyTheMick]

I don't give a damn if many in Iran hate their government. Many in Germany hated Hitler as well. So? How will that help me when the Iranian government nukes NYC?

I posted that link because you said "I do know this, when people in Iran are celebrating Barack Obama being the nominee something is wrong!" I was simply showing you that many in Iran who supposedly cheered for Obama's nomination also hate their government & are pro-United States. Their government didn't throw a damn parade like you are trying to insinuate.