D'Antoni: Lee deserves All Star consideration

[waltoni2010]

Lee playing like a star and we want stars in 2010 right so just keep Lee and and one more big time player and then another good player and were going to be just fine.

[kosmovitelli]

It's tough to do that when the other party gets your first request and says they won't negotiate until next summer. It was the Knicks decision not to hammer out an extension not Lee's.

In fact, Donnie Walsh tested the waters and had talks with his agent Mark Bartelstein but when he asked for too much genotiations were at stallmate and Donnie simply decided to waituntil next summer.
When Walsh said he wanted to clear cap for 2010, Bartelstein went as far as saying Lee was as good as any free agent we could get in 2010 ! He has set the bar too high.
On octo 18, Walsh said he was going to talk to Bartelstein next week then only 5 days later he decided to end the negotiations.
It's quite obvious as soon as Lee's agent demanded more than $10M, Donnie found out there was no way he could reach an agreement with Bartelstein and left the table. As Donnie said, there was nothing to gain for us.


Here's the sequence of events :

April 16, 2008

And, perhaps most telling, Walsh has repeatedly stressed the need to get under the salary cap by 2010, when LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh could become free agents.

That broad goal could dictate dozens of decisions in the coming months, and could have major consequences for several players — David Lee and Nate Robinson in particular.

As first-round picks in 2005, Lee and Robinson are each eligible for lucrative contract extensions this summer. Without the extensions, each would become a restricted free agent in 2009 and, potentially, an unrestricted free agent in 2010.

So one of Walsh’s first critical decisions is whether to lock up the Knicks’ best young prospects at the expense of cap space in 2010. The players and their agents are watching intently.

“Donnie’s got to do what he thinks is best for the Knicks,” said Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein.

But, Bartelstein noted: “The reason why you try to create cap space is to try to get really good young players. I don’t know how much better you’re going to get than David Lee.”

Lee, who is averaging 10.8 points and 8.9 rebounds, has improved every year and is probably the Knicks’ most coveted player around the league. One rival agent, citing Lee’s talent, upside and popularity, suggested he could seek a maximum contract — in the range of $13 million a season. The agent did not want to be identified talking about a player who was not his client.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/sport ... nicks.html

Oct 18 2008

The Knicks have two weeks to sign David Lee to a contract extension, but his agent is unsure a deal can be completed by the Oct. 31 deadline.

The agent, Mark Bartelstein, said he had not had any meaningful discussion with the Knicks’ president, Donnie Walsh, since the start of training camp. Without an extension, Lee will become a restricted free agent next summer.

“I don’t know if I would use the word pessimistic,” Bartelstein said. “We haven’t had any discussions, so we haven’t really thought about it too much. David and I just decided he’s going to put his focus toward helping the Knicks win and recapturing the city of New York.”

Walsh said he wanted to keep Lee and Nate Robinson, who is also eligible for an extension, but he wanted more time to evaluate them. He said he planned to speak with Bartelstein and Robinson’s agents, Eric and Aaron Goodwin, next week.
Walsh described himself as “not optimistic or pessimistic” about the prospect of completing a deal.

“A lot of it is, what advantage do we get for doing it right now?” Walsh said. “I’ve seen three exhibition games. Before that, we won 23 games. So, it just depends.”

Oct 23, 2008

Agent Mark Bartlestein told The Post that Walsh has decided against giving Lee a contract extension by the Oct. 31 deadline, making Lee a restricted free agent July 1.

Bartlestein and Walsh spoke yesterday and agreed to put off contract talks until summer.

I don't anticipate getting something done," Bartlestein said. "As it stands, I don't think it will happen. Donnie is still in the evaluation process with this team. I think he understands David has great value in the league, but is cautious to make a long-term commitment before he gets a feeling what direction his team is going."

Walsh did not dispute Bartlestein's remarks, but said he didn't want to make it official until Oct 31. But it's clear negotiations are over after hearing Bartlestein's asking price.

"I don't want to make a flat statement, but I don't think we're at a point I can say we're going to extend him," Walsh said.

[knicks742]

Putting up stats in a front court devoid of big man will not get you all star consideration.

Then Dwight Howard isn't an all star either. His PF is Rashard Lewis.

Dwight Howard is a dam beast man. Are you serious?

Howard is averaging 20 and 14.

Lee is averaging 15 and 11.

O and Howard actually plays D and defends the basket.

So wait, you say that Lee is only putting up stats because he is playing with no bigs. Then I point out that Howard also is playing with no bigs and you decide that to win the argument you are comparing stats??? LOL

I am not saying that Lee is as good as Howard but to diminish his accomplishments is absurd. If you are going to go by the benchmark you yourself created then Howard is also inflating stats because noone is competing for rebounds with him in his team since he has no bigs so I guess he is not a "beast" but just inflating stats, maybe he is really only good for 16 and 10 if he had a real big man next to him.

[Fury]

Putting up stats in a front court devoid of big man will not get you all star consideration.

Then Dwight Howard isn't an all star either. His PF is Rashard Lewis.

Dwight Howard is a dam beast man. Are you serious?

Howard is averaging 20 and 14.

Lee is averaging 15 and 11.

O and Howard actually plays D and defends the basket.

You're missing the point. You said yourself that Lee is only put up numbers cause there are no other big men on his team. The same can be said for Dwight Howard. You can't deny that he has no other big presence on his team.

[GuyverADL]

It's tough to do that when the other party gets your first request and says they won't negotiate until next summer. It was the Knicks decision not to hammer out an extension not Lee's.

In fact, Donnie Walsh tested the waters and had talks with his agent Mark Bartelstein but when he asked for too much genotiations were at stallmate and Donnie simply decided to waituntil next summer.
When Walsh said he wanted to clear cap for 2010, Bartelstein went as far as saying Lee was as good as any free agent we could get in 2010 ! He has set the bar too high.
On octo 18, Walsh said he was going to talk to Bartelstein next week then only 5 days later he decided to end the negotiations.
It's quite obvious as soon as Lee's agent demanded more than $10M, Donnie found out there was no way he could reach an agreement with Bartelstein and left the table. As Donnie said, there was nothing to gain for us.


Here's the sequence of events :

April 16, 2008

And, perhaps most telling, Walsh has repeatedly stressed the need to get under the salary cap by 2010, when LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh could become free agents.

That broad goal could dictate dozens of decisions in the coming months, and could have major consequences for several players — David Lee and Nate Robinson in particular.

As first-round picks in 2005, Lee and Robinson are each eligible for lucrative contract extensions this summer. Without the extensions, each would become a restricted free agent in 2009 and, potentially, an unrestricted free agent in 2010.

So one of Walsh’s first critical decisions is whether to lock up the Knicks’ best young prospects at the expense of cap space in 2010. The players and their agents are watching intently.

“Donnie’s got to do what he thinks is best for the Knicks,” said Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein.

But, Bartelstein noted: “The reason why you try to create cap space is to try to get really good young players. I don’t know how much better you’re going to get than David Lee.”

Lee, who is averaging 10.8 points and 8.9 rebounds, has improved every year and is probably the Knicks’ most coveted player around the league. One rival agent, citing Lee’s talent, upside and popularity, suggested he could seek a maximum contract — in the range of $13 million a season. The agent did not want to be identified talking about a player who was not his client.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/sport ... nicks.html

Oct 18 2008

The Knicks have two weeks to sign David Lee to a contract extension, but his agent is unsure a deal can be completed by the Oct. 31 deadline.

The agent, Mark Bartelstein, said he had not had any meaningful discussion with the Knicks’ president, Donnie Walsh, since the start of training camp. Without an extension, Lee will become a restricted free agent next summer.

“I don’t know if I would use the word pessimistic,” Bartelstein said. “We haven’t had any discussions, so we haven’t really thought about it too much. David and I just decided he’s going to put his focus toward helping the Knicks win and recapturing the city of New York.”

Walsh said he wanted to keep Lee and Nate Robinson, who is also eligible for an extension, but he wanted more time to evaluate them. He said he planned to speak with Bartelstein and Robinson’s agents, Eric and Aaron Goodwin, next week.
Walsh described himself as “not optimistic or pessimistic” about the prospect of completing a deal.

“A lot of it is, what advantage do we get for doing it right now?” Walsh said. “I’ve seen three exhibition games. Before that, we won 23 games. So, it just depends.”

Oct 23, 2008

Agent Mark Bartlestein told The Post that Walsh has decided against giving Lee a contract extension by the Oct. 31 deadline, making Lee a restricted free agent July 1.

Bartlestein and Walsh spoke yesterday and agreed to put off contract talks until summer.

I don't anticipate getting something done," Bartlestein said. "As it stands, I don't think it will happen. Donnie is still in the evaluation process with this team. I think he understands David has great value in the league, but is cautious to make a long-term commitment before he gets a feeling what direction his team is going."

Walsh did not dispute Bartlestein's remarks, but said he didn't want to make it official until Oct 31. But it's clear negotiations are over after hearing Bartlestein's asking price.

"I don't want to make a flat statement, but I don't think we're at a point I can say we're going to extend him," Walsh said.

STFU you Lee hater

Lee would have signed for the mid-level if it werent for his agent. Lee loves NY which is why he didnt want to go to the sh*t hole known as Memphis.

Where you at the negotiations? Walsh probably offered less than the mid-level. Lee is a max type player, look at his stats.
/Green

[duetta]

Walsh would be wise to informally re-open negotiations fairly soon (if that's permitted under the CBA), and find out if Lee's agent intends to remain unreasonable. Obviously, the last thing we can afford is for Lee to either leave without compensation or for Walsh to be blackmailed into matching a crazy offer.

[klemen4]

I think NY should go slowly in summer, maybe wait till Milsap(Uta) is signed, because talent wise he and Lee are pretty close.

[duetta]

Lee averaged 10.7 /10.4 under Isiah two seasons ago, without the jump shot, and without his enhanced array of low post moves, while playing 5 fewer minutes per game. There's no intellectually honest argument to be made claiming that Lee's performance is purely a creation of D'Antoni's system - although it is true that he and Duhon have developed a strong rapport.

[NYKAL]

Putting up stats in a front court devoid of big man will not get you all star consideration.

Then Dwight Howard isn't an all star either. His PF is Rashard Lewis.[/quote][/quote]

So wait, you say that Lee is only putting up stats because he is playing with no bigs. Then I point out that Howard also is playing with no bigs and you decide that to win the argument you are comparing stats??? LOL



yeah, I caught that to. Leave it be because OP has been h8ing on Lee for a while now.

His usual comment is his lack of defense which is weird since except Howard, very few if any of them play defense. Hell people suck KG's blankety blank but his on man defense if pretty bad as well.

The fact is that the league has made it extremely difficult to guard any halfway dominant player

[GuyverADL]

Lee averaged 10.7 /10.4 under Isiah two seasons ago, without the jump shot, and without his enhanced array of low post moves, while playing 5 fewer minutes per game. There's no intellectually honest argument to be made claiming that Lee's performance is purely a creation of D'Antoni's system - although it is true that he and Duhon have developed a strong rapport.

Playing next to who? Curry.

When he played next to Randolph he looked like absolute trash.

Oh wait he had bone spurs then.

[knicks742]

I think NY should go slowly in summer, maybe wait till Milsap(Uta) is signed, because talent wise he and Lee are pretty close.

I agree. I would dare a team to make him an offer at more than $8 million. There are so many forward free agents this summer, it's not even funny. For example, why would Portland pay $10 million to Lee to be a backup if they can get Bass for $5 or $6 million? Or maybe Gooden for $7 or $8 million? It doesn't make sense especially in these economic times where I keep hearing about the salary cap going down and some gms saying this is going to be the worst offseason to be a free agent.

In my opinion, the right approach is to send his agent on his way to look for an offer like the Hawks did to Josh Smith. Then we decide to match or not.

[GuyverADL]

I think NY should go slowly in summer, maybe wait till Milsap(Uta) is signed, because talent wise he and Lee are pretty close.

I agree. I would dare a team to make him an offer at more than $8 million. There are so many forward free agents this summer, it's not even funny. For example, why would Portland pay $10 million to Lee to be a backup if they can get Bass for $5 or $6 million? Or maybe Gooden for $7 or $8 million? It doesn't make sense especially in these economic times where I keep hearing about the salary cap going down and some gms saying this is going to be the worst offseason to be a free agent.

In my opinion, the right approach is to send his agent on his way to look for an offer like the Hawks did to Josh Smith. Then we decide to match or not.

Maybe because they already have two defensive C's who are not good rebounders?

[NYKAL]

wow, Op has some serious revisionist history going on. Lee's stats were only slightly lower with Zach here. Those to player very well together and to Lee's credit he sacrificed some of his game to allow it to work unlike Curry who couldn't co-exist at all.

We all get that you absolutely loath David Lee but, hey your too good a poster to start making things up

[knicks742]

I think NY should go slowly in summer, maybe wait till Milsap(Uta) is signed, because talent wise he and Lee are pretty close.

I agree. I would dare a team to make him an offer at more than $8 million. There are so many forward free agents this summer, it's not even funny. For example, why would Portland pay $10 million to Lee to be a backup if they can get Bass for $5 or $6 million? Or maybe Gooden for $7 or $8 million? It doesn't make sense especially in these economic times where I keep hearing about the salary cap going down and some gms saying this is going to be the worst offseason to be a free agent.

In my opinion, the right approach is to send his agent on his way to look for an offer like the Hawks did to Josh Smith. Then we decide to match or not.

Maybe because they already have two defensive C's who are not good rebounders?

Did you see that I put Gooden there too or are you going to ignore that too like my rebuff of your Howard/stats comment?

[GuyverADL]

Did you see that I put Gooden there too or are you going to ignore that too like my rebuff of your Howard/stats comment?

Gooden is a numbskull. The guys Bball IQ is non-existent.

Gooden = Ricky Davis at PF

Nat McMillan + Gooden =

[knicks742]

Did you see that I put Gooden there too or are you going to ignore that too like my rebuff of your Howard/stats comment?

Gooden is a numbskull. The guys Bball IQ is non-existent.

Gooden = Ricky Davis at PF

Nat McMillan + Gooden =

I think he is a good backup PF who can score and rebound. You don't need much more from the sixth man position which is why I am having second thoughts about Lee. I think he can play the Diaw role so $8 million makes sense to me.

[kosmovitelli]

Walsh would be wise to informally re-open negotiations fairly soon (if that's permitted under the CBA), and find out if Lee's agent intends to remain unreasonable. Obviously, the last thing we can afford is for Lee to either leave without compensation or for Walsh to be blackmailed into matching a crazy offer.

Even if it was permitted, it would be pointless as Lee can sign anywhere he wants next summer.

For example, Bartlestein could say OK now to a contract starting at $7M then if Memphis or another team offers $12M, what do you think will happen ? He will "boozer" us and sign Memphis offer sheet. Then we can either match or let him go.

If we let Lee become a free agent then it means we're ready to lose him for nothing if needed. I don't think it would be a big deal anyway. I'm sure Walsh will match if the contract is reasonable and tradeable. If not then he will let Lee walk as a free agent and we'll let another team overpay for his services.

If Lee's still here next july then the best case scenario for us is David Lee only gets ONE offer (may be from Memphis) and the contract starts at $10M. Memphis will know there's a chance we would match it so they may engage talks with Walsh to arrange a sign and trade (like Atlanta did for Joe Johnson). It's not unlikely that Lee only gets one offer and maybe no offer at all. Last summer, Josh Smith only got one offer (and it was in august) and it was from the Grizzlies, Ben Gordon got nothing and signed the QO.
Next summer, here are the potential free agents avalable : Kobe Bryant*, Carlos Boozer, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Hedo Turkoglu*, Mehmet Okur*, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Kyle Korver*, Anderson Varejao*, Drew Gooden, Stephon Marbury, Grant Hill, Brandon Bass, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, Zaza Pachulia, Anthony Parker and Jermaine O'Neal (an asterisk means the player has the option to terminate the contract).
David Lee is a power forward and there are a few PFs on that list : Boozer, Marion, Odom, Rasheed , Gooden. As Kobe will resign with the Lakers, Boozer will probably be the most coveted free agent. He's also unrestricted. Last year, most free agents were restricted 'Deng, Iggy, Gordon, Smith, Childress, this year it's the opposite, almost all free agents are unrestricted. Usually unrestricred free agents are signed first so we may have some leverage with Lee as some teams may not have enough money to sign him. They will have to negotiate a sign and trade.

[duetta]

Good analysis. Lee's not as good, at least not yet, as at least two of those guys. So, you're right, he'll probably get the one offer - and we'll just have to see how it plays out. I could live with even $9-$10 (which is Curry money, after all), so long as the deal was cap-friendly, and started low.

With all the talk about endorsements, you would think that Lee would give the Knicks a little bit of a discount over say Memphis or Oklahoma City. He's gotta be able to make off-the-court here than in one of those cities.

[GuyverADL]

Josh Smith didnt get an offer because many teams were over the cap AND Atlanta was going to match any deal anyway.