Explain To Me Why Some Of You Want 8th Seed?

[j4remi]

Let's not get off track just because optimus threw a random thought into a thread it didn't belong in. I've only scanned so I may be repeating, but this is for the OP. You have good thoughts and reasons, but there is PLENTY of logic behind wanting an 8th seed.

a) Anything can happen - The Warriors upset the Mavs not long back. The Knicks made the NBA Finals as what seed again? The Hawks took the C's to 7 last year.

b) Playoff experience is valuable - The Hawks are improved a ton after an 8th seed. The Baby Bulls had to take a beating from the Bad Boys before they could consistently take punishment from teams like the Knicks. That experience is huge as far as motivation and preparedness.

c) Revenue - It's a lot easier to convince Dolan to work deals with Lee and Nate, then future major FA's when he's making playoff dollars.

d) The draft - The draft is shallow. Sure we might luck out, but we also might fall in the draft. The talent in the draft is not really sure shot impact guys. Players may slip through the cracks to us, there are always late steals. The draft is considered weak as it is.

e) A successful team is a better sell to FA's - The better the team, the better chance of getting Bron or Wade or Bosh etc. We can't be sure the team will be worse next season. That's all dependent on who we re-sign, who we draft, and how much current players improve.

f) It raises trade value - Picture Q having a killer series against the C's in series one. Jeffries and James both made full MLE's off of stellar playoff performances. Lee and Nate could become major sign and trade pieces. You never know.

[knicksNOTslick]

Let's not get off track just because optimus threw a random thought into a thread it didn't belong in. I've only scanned so I may be repeating, but this is for the OP. You have good thoughts and reasons, but there is PLENTY of logic behind wanting an 8th seed.

a) Anything can happen - The Warriors upset the Mavs not long back. The Knicks made the NBA Finals as what seed again? The Hawks took the C's to 7 last year.

b) Playoff experience is valuable - The Hawks are improved a ton after an 8th seed. The Baby Bulls had to take a beating from the Bad Boys before they could consistently take punishment from teams like the Knicks. That experience is huge as far as motivation and preparedness.

c) Revenue - It's a lot easier to convince Dolan to work deals with Lee and Nate, then future major FA's when he's making playoff dollars.

d) The draft - The draft is shallow. Sure we might luck out, but we also might fall in the draft. The talent in the draft is not really sure shot impact guys. Players may slip through the cracks to us, there are always late steals. The draft is considered weak as it is.

e) A successful team is a better sell to FA's - The better the team, the better chance of getting Bron or Wade or Bosh etc. We can't be sure the team will be worse next season. That's all dependent on who we re-sign, who we draft, and how much current players improve.

f) It raises trade value - Picture Q having a killer series against the C's in series one. Jeffries and James both made full MLE's off of stellar playoff performances. Lee and Nate could become major sign and trade pieces. You never know.

Great post!

/thread

[pwayknicks]

Anyone who wants the 8th seed is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and NEVER wants this team to win a championship....

The only players who have a future with this team that get playoff experience are:

Chandler
Lee
Gallo

The rest, who cares, they wont be here in 2 years.....

We should want to lose, I hope we lose, I hope we get a top 5 pick, Thabeet would be a nice center to have to fix up on all the poor defenders we have on this team.


BTW: That anything can happen BS, please shutup...

Everyone knew in 1999 that if we played Miami in the playoffs we would beat their a$$....we handled them in the regular season, it was a strike shortend season and the only reason we were the 8th seed that year is because we had just added a bunch of new players and JVG was experimenting with lineups for much of the year. I remember, that last game of the season, if we won we would have been the 7 seed and had to play Indiana(who wasnt as great a matchup) and if we lost we would play Miami....I remember everyone in the Garden cheering for the Knicks to lose, and when the scoreboard showed the other team(i forgot who) was going to play Indiana, there was a huge ovation becasue we didnt have to care anymore about that last game. Everyone wanted Miami in round 1 because we knew we could take them. If we got to play Detroit or Orlando in round 1, then sure its worth it, we CAN beat either team. If it comes to Boston or Clevland, seriously its not even worth the teams time.

[makeitstop]

I'm sick of watching playoff games with no Orange and Blue, that's why.

Screw losing.

[ManiaX]

Anyone who wants the 8th seed is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and NEVER wants this team to win a championship....

The only players who have a future with this team that get playoff experience are:

Chandler
Lee
Gallo

The rest, who cares, they wont be here in 2 years.....

We should want to lose, I hope we lose, I hope we get a top 5 pick, Thabeet would be a nice center to have to fix up on all the poor defenders we have on this team.

So we tank this year and get a top 5 pick.

Who is going to guarantee me this player is going to make an impact next year when we dont have a lottery pick? This draft is nowhere near the talent level of last year. Or do you expect our team to just suck this year and magically be better next year?

Who wants to sign with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in the last 10 years? LeBron is on a contender right now, you can practically cross him off the list right now. Wade and Bosh would only leave their current team to have the chance to go to a better team. Same goes for every other player on the FA list. People forget that over 15 others teams will also have cap space in 2010.

[Spandau]

A winning culture trumps the lottery. Success breeds success.

Bingo.

This is a team that's been on a sunken vessel throughout the decade. Developing a winning culture that reaps rewards, even if it's just a first-round sweep, is more important than hoping for a magic ping-pong ball as the #9 team in the lottery.

Win now. Win later.

[Manhattan Project]

1. Didn't you see what happened to Chicago last season? They were slotted 10th in the lottery...made it to number 1. I'd rather have that lotto shot, than a 1st round elimination any day of the week.

Your banking on a 1.57 chance to get the number one pick?
I think we have at least a 2 percent chance of being on fire from three point land.

2. A lotto player like Brandon Jennings helps us much more next season and in the future, a guy like that can be gone by our 14th pick....one slot makes a huge difference. Look at where Brook Lopez went...10th!

If we dont land Jennings thats fine with me. Its a shame people have such a hard on for him, he had question marks in high school and has done nothing to silence them. Give me a Jeff Teague, Eric Maynor, Stephen Curry, DeRozan, Patterson, Mullens etc as a consolation prize.

3. Some of the current players on our team, their contracts expire at the end of this year...therefore we wont have as much "talent" as we have now next year! If we end up letting Nate, Lee, or one of those two go...we're a much worse team next year...which happens to be the year our pick goes to UTAH!

So your theory is lets suck this year, get another young player. However the key is to convince Lee and Nate that we only sucked because of the whole Utah situation?

4. If we luck out in the lottery and grab an impact player, that guy would help our record and possibly prevent us from handing out a top 5 pick to Utah because of the marbury trade!

Correct me if im wrong but the last time we were in the lottery and grabbed an impact player that helped our record you complained? I mean then again Randolph, Bayless and Gordon would have been so much better this year.

5. Making the playoffs as a "Stepping stone" doesn't mean ****, it's not a stepping stone. Look at Golden State, they made it that one season, and were out the next year with the same team. Not only that, we wont have the same team next year, so we're not building on anything!!!!

Golden State that's your example?
The number eight seed upsetting the number one seed?
The one with 42 wins that season?
Yeah they only improved to 48 wins the next year in the tightest playoff race ever.

5. I understand the fact that people say "Well you're not a fan if you want to lose". HOWEVER, my goal is to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, not just win enough to make the playoffs. Isn't that the goal of the NBA, to win a championship? We need to lose to acquire great players to build a core that will give us a championship team. FK MEDIOCRITY!

If we lose, we get a project.
We get projects so people can complain.
We get cap space to land a great player.
We draft projects to compliment the great player.
This draft there is not a huge difference from pick five to pick 15.
We need so stop jockriding players and losing sight of the bigger picture.

6. If we would've just bottomed out once, we wouldn't need to keep losing. If we had OJ Mayo today along with our current team, we'd be in the playoffs, and have an amazing future.

If we had OJ Mayo today?
What if in 2003 we sucked just a little bit more and were able to get a Wade, James, Melo, Kaman or a Bosh? No instead we had the ninth best odds and stayed there and landed Sweetney.
If we had never drafted Nene with the intentions of trading him and selected Amare. What if we never traded for Curry? What if we sucked just a bit more and landed Rose this year?

[defjux21]

A winning culture trumps the lottery. Success breeds success.

Bingo.

This is a team that's been on a sunken vessel throughout the decade. Developing a winning culture that reaps rewards, even if it's just a first-round sweep, is more important than hoping for a magic ping-pong ball as the #9 team in the lottery.

Win now. Win later.

This.

Are you guys content with the way the crowd behaved the night Kobe dropped 61? Stuff like that happens when you fail to establish a winning culture. Winning impacts everything from the players, to the front office, to the fans. That's why it is such a big deal, and is a better alternative to tanking.

[makeitstop]

This.

Are you guys content with the way the crowd behaved the night Kobe dropped 61? Stuff like that happens when you fail to establish a winning culture. Winning impacts everything from the players, to the front office, to the fans. That's why it is such a big deal, and is a better alternative to tanking.

That's right.

When MJ had his double-nickle game, did fans get up and cheer for him? No, they didn't. They booed his azz.

Why? Because the team was a contender and the fans had pride in them. We need some of that pride, and tanking ain't gonna bring it back. Winning will, even if it's one round and out.

This city needs a signal that the team is coming back. Another crappy season won't send that signal. Winning will.

[KnicksGod]

1. Didn't you see what happened to Chicago last season? They were slotted 10th in the lottery...made it to number 1. I'd rather have that lotto shot, than a 1st round elimination any day of the week.

If you had one free throw to win a game, would you put up a 001.57% free-throw shooter?

The 8th seed has a better than 1.57% chance of advancing out of the first round. There's probably a 3.25% chance of Garnett and Pierce both being out of the lineup with injuries. So there you go, by making the 8th seed, you're at least doubling your chances of success.

Hanging your hat on a 1.57% chance? You can do better than that.

Don't people realize that even if you're the WORST team, something that is not a lot of fun to endure, you only have a 25% chance of getting the first pick? Just to spell it out .... That means for the absolute worst team, the very bottom one, there is a 75% chance that they're not going to get the top pick. Nothing anybody should ever even begin to consider rooting for.

[pwayknicks]

Anyone who wants the 8th seed is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and NEVER wants this team to win a championship....

The only players who have a future with this team that get playoff experience are:

Chandler
Lee
Gallo

The rest, who cares, they wont be here in 2 years.....

We should want to lose, I hope we lose, I hope we get a top 5 pick, Thabeet would be a nice center to have to fix up on all the poor defenders we have on this team.

So we tank this year and get a top 5 pick.

Who is going to guarantee me this player is going to make an impact next year when we dont have a lottery pick? This draft is nowhere near the talent level of last year. Or do you expect our team to just suck this year and magically be better next year?

Who wants to sign with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in the last 10 years? LeBron is on a contender right now, you can practically cross him off the list right now. Wade and Bosh would only leave their current team to have the chance to go to a better team. Same goes for every other player on the FA list. People forget that over 15 others teams will also have cap space in 2010.

So...Lebron is going to want to sign with a team that made the playoffs 2 straight years and got swept both years, BUT has a bunch of role players on the team?

Or, would he rather sign with a team that has 4 good young players, Gallo, Lee, Chandler, Thabeet?

We CANNOT worry about giving up a lotto pick to Utah next year, the fact that that pick is gone, should not factor into anything, its GONE, give it up. We need to worry about bringing in some good talented players here, if we make the playoffs this year by sneaking in, and get swept in round 1...what makes you think we are going to repeat and make the playoffs next year with NOTHIGN added to the team besides another ROLE player. We are not doing anything in free agency because we cant grab contracts that last past 2010, while that, some of the teams below us will draft high in the lottery and get better while we dont get any better....seriously THINK for once

[method]

2 words Atlanta Hawks.

[GuyverADL]

Yes you are right.

The suns traded for Joe Johnson, Marion, and Amare. Oh wait They didnt.

[j4remi]

Anyone who wants the 8th seed is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and NEVER wants this team to win a championship....

Well if you're going to call people (Please Use More Appropriate Word), I hope you don't mind me being honest with you and saying you probably don't know basketball, you're an extremist, and you're probably pretty stupid.

The only players who have a future with this team that get playoff experience are:

Chandler
Lee
Gallo

The rest, who cares, they wont be here in 2 years.....

There's a possibility of Nate, Lee, and Duhon being back at that point. Al may re-sign depending on the market for him (considering how many other major FA's there will be, he'll be low on priorities of other teams). So if that happens, there're 6 guys not to mention the possibility we can't move Jeffries and he stays in the rotation. Again, you're going to extremes and making assumptions. Just stop it.

We should want to lose, I hope we lose, I hope we get a top 5 pick, Thabeet would be a nice center to have to fix up on all the poor defenders we have on this team.

*Sigh* He gets a triple double and everyone's on his jock. Rumor has it the Knicks won't even take Thabeet because they don't think he'll fit the system. There's no guarantee Thabeet makes the top 5 in picks because the talent is even from 2-8 or even further. Don't forget the possibility of the Knicks trading up or aquiring extra picks at the end of the season. If I'm top 5 picking, I take the higher risk but higher reward BJ Mullens, look him up. The Jennings heads, I have to warn you guys that you need to see him play a bit more. His jumper is wackness, he plays like a SG, and we have glaring needs at SG and C. That's not for you though, that's for the rest.

BTW: That anything can happen BS, please shutup...

Everyone knew in 1999 that if we played Miami in the playoffs we would beat their a$$....we handled them in the regular season, it was a strike shortend season and the only reason we were the 8th seed that year is because we had just added a bunch of new players and JVG was experimenting with lineups for much of the year. I remember, that last game of the season, if we won we would have been the 7 seed and had to play Indiana(who wasnt as great a matchup) and if we lost we would play Miami....I remember everyone in the Garden cheering for the Knicks to lose, and when the scoreboard showed the other team(i forgot who) was going to play Indiana, there was a huge ovation becasue we didnt have to care anymore about that last game. Everyone wanted Miami in round 1 because we knew we could take them. If we got to play Detroit or Orlando in round 1, then sure its worth it, we CAN beat either team. If it comes to Boston or Clevland, seriously its not even worth the teams time.

Have to call you a moron for this one. If the Knicks were a 7th seed and made the finals, it'd still be worth recalling. Even if you want to use the strike shortening to debunk that comment you're absolutely ignoring the other two examples. So if you're gonna be like "shut up" bring a better argument then ignoring the rest of the examples. The Hawks weren't supposed to have a chance against the C's...they went to game 7. The Mavs/Warriors is convenient enough to forget too right? What if game one KG goes down with an injury for two weeks? Anything can ****' happen, just because you assume everything will go exactly according to plan doesn't make it so.

[Manhattan Project]

Yes you are right.

The suns traded for Joe Johnson, Marion, and Amare. Oh wait They didnt.

Shawn Marion- Ninth Pick
Joe Johnson- Tenth Pick of the Celtics came to Suns via Rodney Rogers Trade
Amare- Ninth Pick

Maybe if a GM actually keeps the pick this can happen... Oh way we never did. What direction you going with this one? That its good to barely miss the playoffs?

[Papa Midnite]

Yes you are right.

The suns traded for Joe Johnson, Marion, and Amare. Oh wait They didnt.

Boston Celtics?

[Zerostatic]

I want us to get into the playoffs any way possible and once we get there I want us to pull upset after upset and win an NBA friggin' championship. Back in '99 we were the 8th seed and we went to the finals.

[j4remi]

Yes you are right.

The suns traded for Joe Johnson, Marion, and Amare. Oh wait They didnt.

Shawn Marion- Ninth Pick
Joe Johnson- Tenth Pick of the Celtics came to Suns via Rodney Rogers Trade
Amare- Ninth Pick

Maybe if a GM actually keeps the pick this can happen... Oh way we never did. What direction you going with this one? That its good to barely miss the playoffs?

close thread...and Amare shoulda been a Knick...and Bynum too.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Anyone who wants the 8th seed is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and NEVER wants this team to win a championship....

The only players who have a future with this team that get playoff experience are:

Chandler
Lee
Gallo

The rest, who cares, they wont be here in 2 years.....

We should want to lose, I hope we lose, I hope we get a top 5 pick, Thabeet would be a nice center to have to fix up on all the poor defenders we have on this team.


BTW: That anything can happen BS, please shutup...

Everyone knew in 1999 that if we played Miami in the playoffs we would beat their a$$....we handled them in the regular season, it was a strike shortend season and the only reason we were the 8th seed that year is because we had just added a bunch of new players and JVG was experimenting with lineups for much of the year. I remember, that last game of the season, if we won we would have been the 7 seed and had to play Indiana(who wasnt as great a matchup) and if we lost we would play Miami....I remember everyone in the Garden cheering for the Knicks to lose, and when the scoreboard showed the other team(i forgot who) was going to play Indiana, there was a huge ovation becasue we didnt have to care anymore about that last game. Everyone wanted Miami in round 1 because we knew we could take them. If we got to play Detroit or Orlando in round 1, then sure its worth it, we CAN beat either team. If it comes to Boston or Clevland, seriously its not even worth the teams time.

I might take a top 5 pick over the 8th seed, but we already have 21 wins so its highly unlikely at this point. Its too late to tank especially with so many horrible teams. Might as well enjoy it while we are fighting for the playoffs. I know, getting the 8th seed isnt a great accomplishment, but after all these years i can get behind it. Plus rooting for us to lose isnt going to do any good anyway. I dont think we can tell the team to lose on purpose.

Plus I do think:

Gallo, Lee, Chandler, and pick #15 w/ 2 years of playoffs

is more enticing then

Gallo, Lee, Chandler, mid/low lotto pick w/ maybe 0 years of playoff experience.

I think free agents will look at how successful our team and D'Antoni is.

[knicks742]

I think what some people have to consider is that based on the plan of attracting a top free agent in 2010 we have to show that we are already a playoff team not ifs, ands or buts. Look at Kobe in summer 2007, he was so pissed that even though he had a young center that people had high hopes for, he demanded a trade to a contender because he wanted to compete for a title.

Lebrong, Wade, Bosh, Johnson, Dirk, Amare, those guys are already in playoff teams, the only way to convince them to come here is to convince them that adding them and someone else to that mix will make our team better than their current team. Noone is going to come here because we had the first pick in the 2009 draft and sucked for 2 years before they came here. Those guys are ready to win now and we must show that we have a team that is ready to do so.