Walsh has set us up for big dealings....

[Fury]

With Gordon or Mayo we can run a 5 guard lineup! I rather have David Lee.

[Johnny Hoops]

So basically we are committed to signing both of them?

No. Three solutions :
- resign one or both
- let go one or both as free agents
- sign and trade one or both to another team

Koz regarding sign and trades....

Can other players be thrown into a trade from both sides?

[Fury]

Yes. Jamal Crawford came with Jerome Williams.

[j4remi]

The threat to match is a major issue and should help us force a sign and trade even if team's offer these guys more than we can. I highly doubt they walk for nothing.

[Johnny Hoops]

I read this in Hahn's article this morning regarding trading Nate around the draft -- not sure if Hahn is right on this.

Robinson still could be moved during the NBA draft in June. He was asked after practice yesterday if he hopes to stay a Knick for the rest of the season. "Hopefully," he said, "a Knick for life."

Maybe their not free agents until after 7-1-09. I'm not sure.

Hahn is wrong. No player in the final season of his contract can be moved after the trade deadline. Nate can only be moved after the july moratorium (July 1, 2009 through July 7, 2009).

So basically we are committed to signing both of them?

No -- Koz points out the 3 options previously but in reality we are looking at either resigning them and keeping them or resigning them for the purpose of executing an immeditate sign and trade.

I don't think the letting them walk is a scenario that will play out.

[TheBluest]

Kos thanks for setting the OP straight in thinking we could trade Nate and Lee on draft night. Most should have known this already. I've stated it several times before on here but hey what do I know.

No team is going to give up any All-Star, borderline Superstar, Lotto Pick, or high valued asset for those players. We won't be having Boston/Minny... Memphis/Lakers type deals happening with our team. Not this summer nor next summer, forget about it. The only player you listed who might give us a worthwhile asset by himself is Duhon.(I.E. Rafer Alston type deal.)

If we make the playoffs or barely miss you're talking about having a draft pick asset at the value of pick 12-16, plus our second rounder, somewhere in the 42-46 range. Not greats assets here.

Now potentially you'll have some contracts teams might want to get value for in a S&T, unload salary, or...simply to get rid disgruntled player....

You''l have

Boozer(FA)
Odom(FA)
Iverson(FA)
Artest(FA)
Hedo(FA)
Marion(FA)
Dalembert
Kaman
Camby
Randolph
Brand
Illgag
K-Mart
J. O'Neal
Jamison
McGrady
Baron
T. Chandler
Redd
Jefferson
Carter
Wallace
K-Mart II
Caron
Murphy
Hinrich
Shaq


Now of course all of these guys won't be up for grabs for the simple fact of odds and the teams they're on may have some success next yr. Only the worst of them will be available with exception to the FA. But what we'd have to give up to get these guys aren't going to make us relatively any better than we would be if we kept the assets we have. We'd take away any cap flexibility in 2010 if we made such moves. At a minimum half of these guys on the list are injury prone and past their primes.

Here's what we need to understand.

Teams with these assets are going to look at teams who are under the cap first this summer or close to it pick up Trade Exceptions so they can be spenders in 2010 along with everyone else. Hopefully our goal isn't to go after necessarily any of the above mentioned with exception to maybe a minute select few(K-Mart II, Camby, Caron). Instead we need look at teams who want more cap room in 2009 who don't necessarily have stars, but young potential, expirings, small contracts, and draft assets (i.e. Portland, OKC, Toronto, New Jersey, Det, Minny etc etc) Basically, we need to be team giving teams more cap relief(not Lux Tax relief necessarily) to those who are under the cap or want to get further under to pick up TE"s and picks in the process, even if we take on a little bit more salary. It won't matter TE's last for a full yr and we can use them during the 2010 FA period. The TE's would be included in the cap but can be renounced to sign named FA but in the event those FA are no longer on the market we can have them as insurance.

[Capn'O]

Aw ****, Johnny Hoops, you been readin' my posts

Our cap flexibility gives us a chance to be a MAJOR player in trades next season... especially with Duhon on a bargain deal and young talent in the wings as well.

Walsh has the team poised to lean in a number of directions right now. That's why they call it flexibility.

[TrueWarrior]

Johnny. Great post my man. I really have nothing to add. Im 100% pleased with Donnie so far. Hes stuck to the plan he laid out during his first press conference to a tee. We have a great GM here folks. A great one.

One thing I just realized is how he get Dantoni here, Im sure he can use that same savvy to net us a FA or two in 2010, especially if the team is playing well.

Now all the haters have left is us not trading Jeffries. If that happens I wonder what they'll gripe about?
The towel boys??

[TrueWarrior]

Kos thanks for setting the OP straight in thinking we could trade Nate and Lee on draft night. Most should have known this already. I've stated it several times before on here but hey what do I know.

No team is going to give up any All-Star, borderline Superstar, Lotto Pick, or high valued asset for those players. We won't be having Boston/Minny... Memphis/Lakers type deals happening with our team. Not this summer nor next summer, forget about it. The only player you listed who might give us a worthwhile asset by himself is Duhon.(I.E. Rafer Alston type deal.)

If we make the playoffs or barely miss you're talking about having a draft pick asset at the value of pick 12-16, plus our second rounder, somewhere in the 42-46 range. Not greats assets here.

Now potentially you'll have some contracts teams might want to get value for in a S&T, unload salary, or...simply to get rid disgruntled player....

You''l have

Boozer(FA)
Odom(FA)
Iverson(FA)
Artest(FA)
Hedo(FA)
Marion(FA)
Dalembert
Kaman
Camby
Randolph
Brand
Illgag
K-Mart
J. O'Neal
Jamison
McGrady
Baron
T. Chandler
Redd
Jefferson
Carter
Wallace
K-Mart II
Caron
Murphy
Hinrich
Shaq


Now of course all of these guys won't be up for grabs for the simple fact of odds and the teams they're on may have some success next yr. Only the worst of them will be available with exception to the FA. But what we'd have to give up to get these guys aren't going to make us relatively any better than we would be if we kept the assets we have. We'd take away any cap flexibility in 2010 if we made such moves. At a minimum half of these guys on the list are injury prone and past their primes.

Here's what we need to understand.

Teams with these assets are going to look at teams who are under the cap first this summer or close to it pick up Trade Exceptions so they can be spenders in 2010 along with everyone else. Hopefully our goal isn't to go after necessarily any of the above mentioned with exception to maybe a minute select few(K-Mart II, Camby, Caron). Instead we need look at teams who want more cap room in 2009 who don't necessarily have stars, but young potential, expirings, small contracts, and draft assets (i.e. Portland, OKC, Toronto, New Jersey, Det, Minny etc etc) Basically, we need to be team giving teams more cap relief(not Lux Tax relief necessarily) to those who are under the cap or want to get further under to pick up TE"s and picks in the process, even if we take on a little bit more salary. It won't matter TE's last for a full yr and we can use them during the 2010 FA period. The TE's would be included in the cap but can be renounced to sign named FA but in the event those FA are no longer on the market we can have them as insurance.

Good post too. I just think what Donnie has done has given us flexibility though to do a number of things. Its fun to predict what he will do on these forums but honestly we have no clue. Our biggest concerns right now are Lee, Nate, Jeffries, and Curry. So im just going to wait and see how it plays out with them. So far Donnie hasnt disapointed, to me at least.

[truth serum]

This question is for Kos or anyone else who can answer this with certainty....

How long after can we trade our actual pick this year? I know we can't technically trade the pick, so by that I mean- we draft an actual player and are able to package him in a trade when? Can we arrange a trade with a team for a player they like in the draft? Say we get pick 12, and someone like Brandon Jennings is available. Another team would really like a chance at Brandon, so we agree to pick him, and then package him with Curry and trade both for an expiring. Is that allowed? Or is there a time frame for trading drafted players? It would be nice to get a prospect like that, but at the same time, I would do a deal like that in a heartbeat just to get rid of Curry. It's basically a 1st rounder vs. keeping both Nate AND Lee, and having room to sign a second max FA in 2010. I think there's much more value in the latter. So can it be done?

[captvict]

some guys are funny here thinking that lee and/or for that matter nate are going to be traded....lee aint going anywhere....he is a public relations asset...they are already selling ticket specials based around him,...he is a blue collar type hard worker...good speaker....that imparts a positive image of the Knicks.....sometimes you cant put a price on that...(image)...lee aint going nowhere...get real everybody...this is a "business"....and he and nate are putting people in the seats....

[Johnny Hoops]

some guys are funny here thinking that lee and/or for that matter nate are going to be traded....lee aint going anywhere....he is a public relations asset...they are already selling ticket specials based around him,...he is a blue collar type hard worker...good speaker....that imparts a positive image of the Knicks.....sometimes you cant put a price on that...(image)...lee aint going nowhere...get real everybody...this is a "business"....and he and nate are putting people in the seats....

And some guys on here are funny in thinking that they KNOW EVERYTHING.

It's as simple as this -- if Donnie Walnuts gets a good enough offer Lee and/or Nate will be dealt.

If Donnie doesn't get a good enough offer they will be resigned.

To say that either player CAN'T or WON'T be traded is sheer folly.

Bottom line -- if Donnie trades Lee for a very strong package --- fans will run to the new guys and start licking their chops at the % opportunity to bring in a legit star.