Must Read: From Clyde's book

[seren]

Then why bring up the point? I like Clyde to death, but you can't use his arguments to take a shot at MD. Totally different eras, totally different basketball. Some of the stuff players are allowed even 5-6 years ago would get you in foul trouble almost immediately now.

I have yet to see a great measure that suggest MD's Phoenix team is bad defensively. And what Clyde suggested in the book shows he does not have a clue.

Because we have had a problem this year with having a short rotation. The guys out of the rotation aren't clear about their roles, lose interest, and then when D'Antoni decides he can use them or we need them they are just thrown into the fire and it hasn't worked out well for us.

You and D'Antoni know more about winning in today's NBA than Walt Frazier who doesn't have a clue? lol

When you make a claim like Phoenix was allowing the opponent to score so that they can run, there is something wrong no matter what your name is. The points he is making can be extended to each and every NBA team out there (from short rotations to the level of defensive intensity), so it sounds to me he is generally not happy with the overall style of play. Which may be valid, but says little about present.

[Daaaarryyl]

Clyde has been around this team forever. Is there a reason why he was never offered a coaching job with the team? I don't really care how exciting the team is. I want wins. Losing while keeping games close can only be exciting for so long.

Several times over the past 10+ years he has stated he'd be "delighted" (his words) to help on the defensive side if asked. During many broadcasts he speaks about certain ways players could better themselves (his fav being how a big man holding the ball down below their chest after grabbing a board exposes themselves to smaller players) and how he would make ajustments if he were in said game..


IDK if being a great player would translate into being a great coach but I always wondered why the Knicks never took him up on the offer. Baseball teams always bring in former players to work with current ones and it's not like it's been hard to find Clyde the past 20 years..

[Red Vines]

When you make a claim like Phoenix was allowing the opponent to score so that they can run, there is something wrong no matter what your name is. The points he is making can be extended to each and every NBA team out there (from short rotations to the level of defensive intensity), so it sounds to me he is generally not happy with the overall style of play. Which may be valid, but says little about present.

He said the Suns "almost invited" the other team to score so they could run, which is true because they wanted to keep the game at a fast pace because they knew they were better at that pace then the other team. So giving up some quick baskets was not a big deal because in the end you would come out ahead. Like someone else said a few days ago, D'Antoni doesn't even like to foul because it slows the game down, he wants to keep it fast and keep the pace in his favor, making the other team play out of character.

[Daaaarryyl]

Clyde has been around this team forever. Is there a reason why he was never offered a coaching job with the team? I don't really care how exciting the team is. I want wins. Losing while keeping games close can only be exciting for so long.

Several times over the past 10+ years he has stated he'd be "delighted" (his words) to help on the defensive side if asked. During many broadcasts he speaks about certain ways players could better themselves (his fav being how a big man holding the ball down below their chest after grabbing a board exposes themselves to smaller players) and how he would make adjustments if he were in said game..


IDK if being a great player would translate into being a great coach but I always wondered why the Knicks never took him up on the offer. Baseball teams always bring in former players to work with current ones and it's not like it's been hard to find Clyde the past 20 years..

[Red Vines]

^I think in his book he said he didn't want to coach because he's a perfectionist and also because of the huge egos involved--he couldn't deal with coddling star players.

[Swammy]

That's all well and good but if Robert "cheap shot" Horry doesn't hip check Nash they would of beaten the Spurs and demolished the Cavs.

[johnnywishbone]

I won't argue with Clyde but I'll say this...

After watching Shaq shoot free throws for several years it was really refreshing to see a team spread the floor and run.

When was the quote written? I seem to remember some great defensive battles between Kobe and Raja Bell. I thought in his later years in Phoenix D'Antoni began emphasizing D and they ranked pretty high statistically.

[Red Vines]

That's all well and good but if Robert "cheap shot" Horry doesn't hip check Nash they would of beaten the Spurs and demolished the Cavs.

You know, you hear this alot and it may be true but Lebon has to take offense to it. I know D'Antoni thinks this way and you wonder if Lebron factors that in--that D'Antoni assumes he would have won a ring with the Suns because they would have easily beat the Cavs.

[Red Vines]

About the Suns being a "good" defensive team...there's a difference between good and championship level. Consider what happened and was said during D'Antoni's last playoff series:

Tim Duncan’s three-pointer at the end of the first OT of Game 1 is credited with changing the entire complexion of the series, and it did. But Duncan would have never had the opportunity to take that shot had Michael Finley not also made a three-pointer in the closing seconds of regulation. And Finley likely wouldn’t have been open to shoot had Leandro Barbosa and Amare Stoudemire properly switched on the Spurs’ pick-and-roll. Here’s one reason why they may have failed to switch: The Suns don’t work on it much in practice.

“They beat us with the intangibles, they beat us with the little things, they beat us with the gamesmanship, they beat us with the attention to detail, the game plan, doing all the little things that win games,” Bell said. “That’s why they’re the champs."

[rsavaj]

We were not a bad defensive team with D'Antoni here(13-17th). With KT/Raja/Boris/Marion in 05/06, we were actually 5th through January. Then KT got injured. To say we didn't play defense would be a mistake. Our rebounding hurt us a lot more than our defense did.

Now I think we're 29th in defense.

[captain subtext]

“They beat us with the intangibles, they beat us with the little things, they beat us with the gamesmanship, they beat us with the attention to detail, the game plan, doing all the little things that win games,” Bell said. “That’s why they’re the champs."

That's a lot of words for "We were outcoached.".

[rsavaj]

“They beat us with the intangibles, they beat us with the little things, they beat us with the gamesmanship, they beat us with the attention to detail, the game plan, doing all the little things that win games,” Bell said. “That’s why they’re the champs."

That's a lot of words for "We were outcoached.".

That's what happens when you go up against the best coach in the league.

[Red Vines]

That's a lot of words for "We were outcoached.".

Stoudemire made it a point to praise the Spurs three times Tuesday night for being “well-coached.” He also didn’t seem happy that the Suns had leaned their offense toward his French teammate. “Even though your style may change a little bit, you should still have your same go-to guy,” Stoudemire said. “That shouldn’t change at all. That’s what the Spurs have.”

[Red Vines]

This is the best assessment of D'Antoni's defense I've found, written by Jack McCallum who wrote the Seven Seconds or Less book and is a D'Antoni fan. This was right before the Suns were eliminated and D'Antoni left, he was going through what the Suns problems are:

The Consequences of O

To his dying day, D'Antoni will tell you that a team can win a championship with an uptempo style, and he will tell you that his teams are not as bad defensively as critics claim. Perhaps he will be proved correct somewhere else. But in consistently tilting his practice time and philosophy toward offense, defensive details inevitably got overlooked -- and just as inevitably the resulting weaknesses were exploited.

D'Antoni does not demand that O'Neal come out and defend on high pick-and-rolls. Consequently, when Spurs forward Tim Duncan sets a pick for guards Tony Parker or Manu Ginóbili, then flares to the side and takes a return pass, he almost has time to count the seams on the ball before he releases a jump shot, of which he made four from 16 feet or more in Game 3. (Never mind how many uncontested looks Parker, who scored 41 points, had that night.) "That's just their philosophy," Duncan said between games in Phoenix. "If I missed those shots, it would be the right one." That's the diplomatic answer; Duncan could give you the script, blue as it might be, on what he would hear from coach Gregg Popovich if he ever stayed in the lane as O'Neal does.

Phoenix coaches will tell you that they employed a variety of defenses in Games 2 and 3 in an attempt to combat the endless pick-and-rolls, even going to a hated zone. But all of the defenses were deeply flawed, even if credit is given to the metronomelike precision of the San Antonio offense. In Game 4 D'Antoni used 6' 8" forward Boris Diaw on the 6' 2" Parker, and that slowed Parker down. But the Suns don't specialize in situational defenses and active rotations, which require discipline and hours of practice to master.

Everyone in the Phoenix organization still gets a migraine thinking about the play late in Game 1 on which Stoudemire failed to switch off and cover guard Michael Finley on a three-point shot. With a clean look Finley sent the game into overtime, and San Antonio eventually won 117-115 in two OTs, setting the course for the series. Was Stoudemire told to make the switch? Yes. Was it his fault? Yes. But the Suns don't drill and drill and drill for those situations as the Spurs do.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... z0h9P1tFLR

[j4remi]

We were not a bad defensive team with D'Antoni here(13-17th). With KT/Raja/Boris/Marion in 05/06, we were actually 5th through January. Then KT got injured. To say we didn't play defense would be a mistake. Our rebounding hurt us a lot more than our defense did.

Now I think we're 29th in defense.

A lot of ignorant people simply refuse to accept this. Mike isn't a defensive wizard but his problems are exaggerated to a disgusting amount. Earlier this season these Knicks held opposing teams under 100 PPG for a consecutive game streak that hasn't happened in years. He also set up a zone with roaming players and rotations that was effective in masking some of our height problems. He's no ace, but to pretend he's done nothing about our deficiencies is just hate.

BTW, Walt's wrong. Considering Mike got his shot at a ring by bringing in defensive minded players that could shoot as well. I love Walt and I'd love him to help the players with man defense, but he's really exaggerating and showing his age in that little quote.

[Red Vines]

BTW, Walt's wrong. Considering Mike got his shot at a ring by bringing in defensive minded players that could shoot as well.

And that will only get you so far is the point. You have to practice it and practice it as a team to get to the next level.

[Knicksick]

We were not a bad defensive team with D'Antoni here(13-17th). With KT/Raja/Boris/Marion in 05/06, we were actually 5th through January. Then KT got injured. To say we didn't play defense would be a mistake. Our rebounding hurt us a lot more than our defense did.

Now I think we're 29th in defense.

A lot of ignorant people simply refuse to accept this. Mike isn't a defensive wizard but his problems are exaggerated to a disgusting amount. Earlier this season these Knicks held opposing teams under 100 PPG for a consecutive game streak that hasn't happened in years. He also set up a zone with roaming players and rotations that was effective in masking some of our height problems. He's no ace, but to pretend he's done nothing about our deficiencies is just hate.

BTW, Walt's wrong. Considering Mike got his shot at a ring by bringing in defensive minded players that could shoot as well. I love Walt and I'd love him to help the players with man defense, but he's really exaggerating and showing his age in that little quote.

Wrong. D'Antoni supporters refuse to accept the fact that the only reason why Phoenix was 15th in defense( great accomplishment lol) was due to the fact that they brought in ALREADY GOOD OR GREAT DEFENDERS. It wasn't D'Antoni who taught them good defense---they broughtin guys that were already good defenders.
EVERYONE, from ex-players,to the GM, to the guy that wrote his book ---all of them have repeatedly stated, in an obvious or hidden way that D'Antoni doesn't pay attention to defense and that most of his practices are used on offense, little attention is paid to defense---we have heard it over and over again from a lot of different guys. The Suns trading for KT,Bell,Diaw who made their defense mediocre doesn't change that fact period.
It's disgusting how ignorant people keep making excuses for D'Antoni when it has been proven beyond doubt that he is as clueless as it gets on defense.

[j4remi]

We were not a bad defensive team with D'Antoni here(13-17th). With KT/Raja/Boris/Marion in 05/06, we were actually 5th through January. Then KT got injured. To say we didn't play defense would be a mistake. Our rebounding hurt us a lot more than our defense did.

Now I think we're 29th in defense.

A lot of ignorant people simply refuse to accept this. Mike isn't a defensive wizard but his problems are exaggerated to a disgusting amount. Earlier this season these Knicks held opposing teams under 100 PPG for a consecutive game streak that hasn't happened in years. He also set up a zone with roaming players and rotations that was effective in masking some of our height problems. He's no ace, but to pretend he's done nothing about our deficiencies is just hate.

BTW, Walt's wrong. Considering Mike got his shot at a ring by bringing in defensive minded players that could shoot as well. I love Walt and I'd love him to help the players with man defense, but he's really exaggerating and showing his age in that little quote.

Wrong. D'Antoni supporters refuse to accept the fact that the only reason why Phoenix was 15th in defense( great accomplishment lol) was due to the fact that they brought in ALREADY GOOD OR GREAT DEFENDERS. It wasn't D'Antoni who taught them good defense---they broughtin guys that were already good defenders.
EVERYONE, from ex-players,to the GM, to the guy that wrote his book ---all of them have repeatedly stated, in an obvious or hidden way that D'Antoni doesn't pay attention to defense and that most of his practices are used on offense, little attention is paid to defense---we have heard it over and over again from a lot of different guys. The Suns trading for KT,Bell,Diaw who made their defense mediocre doesn't change that fact period.
It's disgusting how ignorant people keep making excuses for D'Antoni when it has been proven beyond doubt that he is as clueless as it gets on defense.

He doesnt focus on defense we kno this. He brought in defensive minded players and used them but thats a fault not a plus now? They were already good on d so it doesnt matter, smh at the reaching just to put him down. Ive called duke out on misusing gallo and dumb sub patterns but i see the metric numbers and moves hes made THIS YEAR so ill call ignorance and BS on people until i see otherwise.

[HarthorneWingo]

On the chapter on teamwork and defense he writes:

If the Phoenix Suns had won the NBA championship last year, it would have been horrible for the game. No one would say defense wins anymore. The purists and defense-oriented guys like myself would've died a little death. Every team would've started trying to emulate the Suns by running up and down the court. The Suns almost invited their opponents to score so that they could take the ball out of bounds and start running.

Phoenix's problem was that you can't win a championship by only playing offense. They can't stop anybody on "D." They play matador defense. That's why they traded for Kurt Thomas, a good defensive player, in the off-season last year, and signed Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. It helped, but it wasn't enough. If they had somehow won the championship in 2006, other team would've adopted their undisciplined, run-up-and-down style and the sweet nuances of the half-court game would deteriorate further.

Defense and teamwork--to me that's the game, that's how you win. That's how I played coming up and I wouldn't change anything. It's still the way to play. I'm old-school. I won't change. I was a defensive player and I shared the ball on offense and hit the open man. I believe in teamwork.

You have to play as a team and you have to work hard on defense.

That's all.

Clyde for Coach next year.

[johnnywishbone]

BTW, Walt's wrong. Considering Mike got his shot at a ring by bringing in defensive minded players that could shoot as well.

And that will only get you so far is the point. You have to practice it and practice it as a team to get to the next level.

and as Clyde pointed out in tonight's game the "Showtime" Lakers were only a "good" defensive team who could make timely stops. That's a paraphrase but to say only defense first teams win would be a mistake too.