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Trade Big Baby Thread

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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#61 » by MitchellUK » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:32 pm

drsd wrote:I remind everyone that Davis is a co-captain and is expected to carry the team.


That's not true at all. Being a captain doesn't mean taking the most shots or carrying the heaviest load on offense, it means leading by example, working hard, doing the things that you can do to help the team win games. That extends to recognizing your own weaknesses and playing the game accordingly.

The example Davis is setting for our younger players right now is that it's ok to ignore your own mediocre offensive repertoire and take as many ill-advised shots as you like. Our coaches, management and senior players are preaching team-oriented, unselfish basketball whilst one of our co-captains - a man who has never been and should never be anything more than a role player, a fourth or fifth option on offense - has a usage rate that dwarfs the likes of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant and Lebron James.

I'm still surprised that people want to defend his current approach to the game.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#62 » by OrlandO » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:46 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
richboy wrote:Big Baby is who we thought he was. The true measure of a man is his consistency. What he averages is really who he is. Big Baby has had these moments in his career where people suddenly think he could be a player. The stars aligned last year and suddenly he was Charles Barkley for a short stretch. These are the times that teams should trade Big Baby while his value is at its highest. Instead we bank on him coming back strong again and he averaging 18 shots a game to score 15 points. All while having superstar level usage.

You need to take into account who Davis is being guarded by. Faried was doing it for at least part of the Nuggets game (though I don't know who was guarding Glen vs the Suns). The Bulls, in addition to defending Glen with Noah, also sent periodic double-teams. I didn't see the last two games, but the Timberwolves and Nets have lengthy frontcourts. I just want to try to figure out *why* things happen.

Most of this board isn't interested in an explanation. They made up their minds about Davis early last year. He can do no good in their eyes. Even when he wins us a game they're just waiting for the first mistake to spit on him again. You're likely the only one here who has even mentioned double teams since again, nobody is looking for an explanation. It's his first year as a starter and main offensive contributor, yet he gets zero time to learn and adjust when things go awry. After the first few games, teams clearly put Davis and Redick at the top of their whiteboard. Look at the results after taking both of them out. 2:1 team assist to turnover ratio in the first three competitive games where they were both highly engaged in the offense; 1:1 ratio in the last two blowouts. They know the key to an easy victory against us is by shutting Davis' scoring down and reducing Redick's ability to run the offense. Without them we can't possibly compete through four quarters since there's just not enough aggressive scoring and ball movement.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#63 » by OrlandO » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:52 pm

MitchellUK wrote:
drsd wrote:I remind everyone that Davis is a co-captain and is expected to carry the team.


That's not true at all. Being a captain doesn't mean taking the most shots or carrying the heaviest load on offense, it means leading by example, working hard, doing the things that you can do to help the team win games. That extends to recognizing your own weaknesses and playing the game accordingly.

The example Davis is setting for our younger players right now is that it's ok to ignore your own mediocre offensive repertoire and take as many ill-advised shots as you like. Our coaches, management and senior players are preaching team-oriented, unselfish basketball whilst one of our co-captains - a man who has never been and should never be anything more than a role player, a fourth or fifth option on offense - has a usage rate that dwarfs the likes of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant and Lebron James.

I'm still surprised that people want to defend his current approach to the game.

Our entire team has played selfish basketball the last two games. 1:1 assist to turnover ratio... and guess what... Davis has taken half as many shots and dished out team high assists in both of those games. Yet we get blown out. We go as Redick and Davis go. The rest of the team relies on them in various ways, whether it's benefiting from Redick's play-making or Davis' contagious aggressive spirit. I'm not saying BBD must take 20+ shots a game, but he needs to be highly involved with this particular roster or we're screwed. I also think he hasn't been given a fair shot to adjust his game. He's now a starter and main contributor on a crappy team... defenses are giving him more attention than ever. Patience is key. I'm giving him a 20-25 game leniency period before I judge.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#64 » by Last Guardian » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:53 pm

No, we just already know the explanation. Its that he sucks.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#65 » by Bensational » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:31 pm

Baby will be fine if we can keep his offense to nice, structured moves. the PnR and high post kick outs are where he's been most efficient so far. It's when we let him barrel his way into the lane or try to take his man off the dribble from 20ft out that his offense suffers.

The dude has been assisted on only 33% of his shots at the rim, compared to Vucevic's 65%. We need to cut down how much work Baby needs to do to create his shots, because he's not a playmaker.

Right now, though, it definitely appears as though this team will only perform as well as BBD and JJ do.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#66 » by OrlandO » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:32 pm

Big Baby with 19pts, 10 rebs, couple charges, 3 stls and 2 blks today. Again, when Big Baby is highly involved and has taken 20+ FGA, we're competitive in the game and could have won if we did better than 1/12 from 3. That's four games now. When his role is reduced, we got blown out twice. Today you got to see what running the PNR can do for BBD. Suddenly he looked like a much better player in those situations. We moved away from that the previous two games. We need to see how this team improves with both Nelson and Redick running the offense. Moore is a nice scoring punch off the bench, but the past three games he's had 10 assists and 14 turnovers as a starter...
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#67 » by richboy » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:33 am

OrlandO wrote:Big Baby with 19pts, 10 rebs, couple charges, 3 stls and 2 blks today. Again, when Big Baby is highly involved and has taken 20+ FGA, we're competitive in the game and could have won if we did better than 1/12 from 3. That's four games now. When his role is reduced, we got blown out twice. Today you got to see what running the PNR can do for BBD. Suddenly he looked like a much better player in those situations. We moved away from that the previous two games. We need to see how this team improves with both Nelson and Redick running the offense. Moore is a nice scoring punch off the bench, but the past three games he's had 10 assists and 14 turnovers as a starter...


I'm sorry your talking crazy. The numbers say one thing. Big Baby is horrible. You can not have a low efficiency player taking 20 plus shots a game. You take 21 shots you suppose to be at least mid to high 20s in scoring. You can not be serious that we need to be giving Big Baby Superstar like shot attempts so he can score middle teens.

The reason Big Baby is bad now is the same reason he was bad most of last year. He has no idea on how to play a role. He consistently thinks his role is superstar. If he just focused on Pick n pop jumpers, dives to the rim, defense and rebounding he be a valuable player. Big Babies high usage makes him a near cancer. As of now he around 20 points behind the average NBA player in league efficiency. Unless his name is Durant, Lebron, Bryant there is no way to justify Glen Davis near the top of the league in FGAs.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#68 » by Prolific Scorer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:59 am

I know this is the Magic board, and we like to root for our guys, but wow. I can't believe there are people who actually think Big Baby's hotdogging is okay. The guy is a cancer, and as far as i'm concerned he shouldn't be getting any PT, no matter how much money he's making.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#69 » by JF5 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:26 am

Big Baby does need to go.... Everyone knows it.... He stagnates the offense with all those shots... JJ Redick and Aaron Affalo do the same thing but its not as bad as big baby...
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#70 » by Orium » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:46 am

I think he'll be gone by the trade deadline. He wasn't a good fit for this team even before all the chucking.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#71 » by MagicFan32 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:54 am

eyriq wrote:Image

Image

Leader of the Tank Squad? No, he is the guarantor of the Tank.

sample size.

you guys trying to pin things on BBD are ridiculous, yes he takes bad shots but nobody else can really get one right now 1 on 1. it didn't take long for magic fans to try and find a scapegoat :roll:
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I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#72 » by magicman123 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:00 am

Patience is key? is big baby being patient?

5th in FGA, yet hes 42nd in scoring, 122nd in FG% and only 77th in minutes (30min)...hes taking a ton of shots

being aggressive is fine, but let the game come to him, stop trying to do everything yourself...
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#73 » by Orium » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:00 am

MagicFan32 wrote:
eyriq wrote:Image

Image

Leader of the Tank Squad? No, he is the guarantor of the Tank.

sample size.

you guys trying to pin things on BBD are ridiculous, yes he takes bad shots but nobody else can really get one right now 1 on 1. it didn't take long for magic fans to try and find a scapegoat :roll:


This isn't about finding a scapegoat, I think we all pretty much expected to suck this season. BBD is stopping the possibility of chemistry forming between the young guys. He see's our team as a place where he can try to make a name for himself before inevitably moving on. Cancer..
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#74 » by GameOver25 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:41 am

It's all moot guys, unless he's traded he will continue with the high usage. He's fully accepted the "tank" commander role and has the physique to prove it.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#75 » by MagicFan32 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:41 am

How on earth is BBD preventing chemistry between the young players, when the coach isn't playing them? Calling BBD a cancer is a total joke.
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I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#76 » by Bensational » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:39 am

someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#77 » by OrlandO » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:57 am

MagicFan32 wrote:How on earth is BBD preventing chemistry between the young players, when the coach isn't playing them? Calling BBD a cancer is a total joke.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#78 » by OrlandO » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:34 am

Bensational wrote:someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.

This board is too busy focusing on Davis' shot attempts and % to realize the many issues we're facing while Nelson/Turk are out. I also think many are in denial about our team... as if they think we have a wealth of consistent shooters and playmakers that can replace what big baby brings to the table with his confidence, heart and hustle. They are severely underestimating the reality of not having a single star and how it impacts each member of the team. Davis doesn't deserve the level of criticism I am seeing on here... not this year, not with this squad - especially not when two primary ball handlers are injured.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#79 » by aleZ » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:32 pm

There's no team chemistry so BBD shoots too much, but it's only part of the problem. He wasn't allowed to do so much in Boston because he had bigger names around him and besides, what would we get in return? We got almost nothing for dwight howard for chrissake :D

I blame the coaches for letting BigBaby do whatever he wants, like shooting long jumpers - he must be benched the moment he tries 2 in a row.
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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread 

Post#80 » by SloNick Russia » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:54 pm

The truth is that nobody has challenged BBD for minutes and shots yet, Nicholson is not ready to take any serious load yet and Harrington is injured, when time clock is rinning out BBD is a guy willing to lauch low % shots and currectly he has many chances to do so.

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