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Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:55 am
by Gomagic44
^^i agree with you
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 am
by drsd
G-Heel wrote:He was a good role player in Boston, but I don't know what happened. Now, he only do well if he takes a ton of shots and no team is going to contend if they have BBD taking 15-20 shots on 40-44% shooting. I'm sorry, but he's trash. Again, just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of you won't agree with me.
And I disagree. Look Orlando was a 50%-win team with Davis, and is about a 15%-win team without him. Davis' win shares clearly shows he had team value.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:06 pm
by MagicMan89
Send him and AA to Char for Ben Gordan and a pick. Ben Gordan is a 13.2 mil expiring contract and BBD and AA will make Char win more games moving us all the way to the bottom of next years standings. Wiggins here we come!
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 pm
by BadMofoPimp
G-Heel wrote:1. You said ANY picks. That's just crazy. I can partially understand if you meant mid-to-late 1st pick. I'd trade him for a bag of doritos, but I guess that's just me.
2. BBD is so overrated defensively. He's decent, but he isn't a difference maker on defense.
3. He also isn't a difference maker on offense. He an inefficient PF that loves to chuck up shots...
He was a good role player in Boston, but I don't know what happened. Now, he only do well if he takes a ton of shots and no team is going to contend if they have BBD taking 15-20 shots on 40-44% shooting. I'm sorry, but he's trash. Again, just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of you won't agree with me.
Magic with BBD was a playoff team and without BBD they are arguably the worst team in the league. He made that much of an impact on the defensive end and helped on offense. There are plenty of chuckers on this team in Meer and Afflalo that take many worse shots than BBD.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:39 pm
by eyriq
Every metric that attempts to allot win shares shows Baby to be garbage. Combine this with the trail of suck that is his resume and I have a very hard time over rating his impact as a difference maker. I'm chalking this up to noise.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:42 pm
by BadMofoPimp
eyriq wrote:Every metric that attempts to allot win shares shows Baby to be garbage. Combine this with the trail of suck that is his resume and I have a very hard time over rating his impact as a difference maker. I'm chalking this up to noise.
Please enlighten us with this great metric that shows BBD as garbage. It appears to me that in games he plays in, the teams win more often than when he doesn't play.
I guess Magic fans just enjoy having swish cheese for defense.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:44 pm
by eyriq
Win share over at basketball reference is one source, wins produced at a site by the same name is another.
His PER for the year is average, and that is inflated by his FGA.
To propose that he is a difference maker to the tune of 20 wins is a difficult argument to make and a dangerous proposition to base future basketball decisions on.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:48 pm
by BadMofoPimp
eyriq wrote:Win share over at basketball reference is one source, wins produced at a site by the same name is another.
His PER for the year is average, and that is inflated by his FGA.
To propose that he is a difference maker to the tune of 20 wins is a difficult argument to make and a dangerous proposition to base future basketball decisions on.
Lets see. Some players worth cannot be just valued with "PER." Otherwise, players like Ben Wallace would never have made it in the NBA. And, the Magic were a .500 team with BBD until he got his first injury. Then, the team was in a rut until he came back and then they were close in games until he got injured again. Then, the Magic were getting blown out by 20 ppg all the time. I think it was obvious that the Magic had a respectable defense with BBD and were the worst team in the NBA without him. Fortunately, I think coaches would agree with me more than fans opinions regarding a BBD's worth.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:12 pm
by G-Heel
drsd wrote:G-Heel wrote:He was a good role player in Boston, but I don't know what happened. Now, he only do well if he takes a ton of shots and no team is going to contend if they have BBD taking 15-20 shots on 40-44% shooting. I'm sorry, but he's trash. Again, just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of you won't agree with me.
And I disagree. Look Orlando was a 50%-win team with Davis, and is about a 15%-win team without him. Davis' win shares clearly shows he had team value.
Yea lets use the 30 something games to judge Davis's worth. Did he improve our wins last year? Did he make the team better?
Boston fans were so happy when he left. Last season, we were hoping that it'd only take a second round pick to get rid of him. So yea I'm going to use the past few years to judge him, not the first 25 games where teams were underestimating us. Those wins were fluke. Jameer shot light out for 60 games in '09 and haven't been close to it. Some scrubs have one good season and disappeared. This season hasn't changed my view of BBD.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:51 pm
by BadMofoPimp
It sure is a good thing at least Coaches and GM's value Defense. If you haven't noticed, the NBDL is full of offensive players that are poor defensively. Fans just like to watch players shoot the ball most of the time and think that offensively gifted players make their NBA team exciting. But, Defense wins championships.
BBD is the only player with a Ship on this team. BBD was drafted 35th in the NBA and is a true underdog. He always has to prove people wrong and is a true winner. The NBA cannot have enough players like BBD in this league.
If the Magic trade away BBD without finding a player to help defend the paint, they will never be a playoff caliber team until they do. Defense wins championships.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:58 pm
by G-Heel
BadMofoPimp wrote:It sure is a good thing at least Coaches and GM's value Defense. If you haven't noticed, the NBDL is full of offensive players that are poor defensively. Fans just like to watch players shoot the ball most of the time and think that offensively gifted players make their NBA team exciting. But, Defense wins championships.
BBD is the only player with a Ship on this team. BBD was drafted 35th in the NBA and is a true underdog. He always has to prove people wrong and is a true winner. The NBA cannot have enough players like BBD in this league.
If the Magic trade away BBD without finding a player to help defend the paint, they will never be a playoff caliber team until they do. Defense wins championships.
If you read my posts I've always advocated defense. That's why I still stand by Harkless when most jumped on the Harris bandwagon and want to take a chance on Noel.
Thing is, the way BBD is.. he isn't a championship type of player anymore. He wanted to leave Boston because he was tired of being a role player. He was sucking so bad last season when he didn't have the green light to shoot whenever he wants. KG isn't here to keep him in check, he basically thinks he's an all stars. You see a ring on his finger, I see a selfish player who was lucky to be on a championship team. I will give him credit for it though, he did help Boston. But that's not the same BBD, this one isn't going to defer to the likes of Vuc and Harris.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:15 pm
by BadMofoPimp
G-Heel wrote: I will give him credit for it though, he did help Boston. But that's not the same BBD, this one isn't going to defer to the likes of Vuc and Harris.
I am kinda nervous to have him come back after missing extended amount of time. And, I wouldn't doubt it if he gets traded as he is a bargain for $6 mil for a solid bench big on a Strong Playoff caliber team. I think the Magic could make a good deal, but I would hate to see him exit like that. I really like his leadership and think he could be a better role player.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:33 pm
by Mad Guru
I think Big Baby would be great for us in a bench role
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:41 pm
by Tayswagzzz
If BBD gets traded I expect us to be drafting Noel..
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:00 pm
by OrlandoMagician
Tayswagzzz wrote:If BBD gets traded I expect us to be drafting Noel..
Trade a fat infant, draft a skinny child. Seems ok to me.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:02 am
by SmiteaDwight
I have finally jumped on this bandwagon. I'am all trading him if Nicholson can improve his defense over the summer.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:31 am
by Neon1
SmiteaDwight wrote:I have finally jumped on this bandwagon. I'am all trading him if Nicholson can improve his defense over the summer.
Drafting Noel would go a long way in being able to keep Nicholson on the court for longer stretches (pairing him with Noel when he moves to center). It also allows you to be more effective for the mins that we'd use Harris at PF.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:33 am
by Orium
OrlandoMagician wrote:Tayswagzzz wrote:If BBD gets traded I expect us to be drafting Noel..
Trade a fat infant, draft a skinny child. Seems ok to me.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:30 am
by doct3r dr3
Neon1 wrote:SmiteaDwight wrote:I have finally jumped on this bandwagon. I'am all trading him if Nicholson can improve his defense over the summer.
Drafting Noel would go a long way in being able to keep Nicholson on the court for longer stretches (pairing him with Noel when he moves to center). It also allows you to be more effective for the mins that we'd use Harris at PF.
also, should he miss time to start the season, that helps us keep Stinkin' For Wiggins.
Re: Trade Big Baby Thread
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:04 am
by G-Heel
Mad Guru wrote:I think Big Baby would be great for us in a bench role
I'm not sure he'd want to be a bench player, at least not with the roster we have. It'd seem like a slap in the face to him.