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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#221 » by Def Swami » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:56 pm

cedric76 wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Cigamodnalro wrote:Magic trade: Arron Afflalo, E'Twaun Moore
Kings trade: Tyreke Evans, Aaron Brooks


I dunno cig.. it's just that seeing AA...i'm finally confident when I see our SG driving and laying up in the lane wehter through traffic or on a fastbreak. This is esp true since we had VC or JRich before where they more often than not blow the layup.

So dunno about trading AA


AA brings a lot to this team, in energy , leadership and D, however i think he over do things in Offense which often leads to TO

I think he and Big Baby are forced to do that to a certain extent. If those 2 aren't being aggressive, along with Jameer and JJ, we don't have a chance of winning. We're placing role players in roles where they're expected to do "too much." I agree that he does too much at times, but I think that's just how it's going to be. Got to take the good with the bad. I think the guys we have would be awesome in reduced roles once we are able to land a superstar caliber player.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#222 » by Def Swami » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:09 pm

The Utah Jazz will have some interesting decisions to make this summer. And they involve whether or not to keep the team’s two best players.

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap are both legitimate starting frontcourt players, each with a unique skill set that would have tremendous value for a multitude of NBA teams. There are questions about fit within a given system, as well as a fit within a team’s current salary cap situation. But both of these guys can play, and would by highly valued on the free agent market.

This, in a nutshell, is the issue facing the Jazz.

Both Jefferson and Millsap will be unrestricted free agents after this season. With the Jazz having young big men on the roster it believes can develop into legitimate assets of their own, it’s unlikely that they would be willing to spend to keep both players in Utah beyond this season.

From Marc Stein of ESPN.com:

It’s a working assumption in front offices all over the league that the Jazz will trade Jefferson or Millsap for a front-line point guard at some point in the next 10 weeks. For two reasons.

1. Jefferson and Millsap will be free agents in July, meaning Utah risks losing both without compensation if they’re still on the roster beyond Feb. 21.

2. Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter are the undeniable power players of the future in Utah, even though Jefferson is one of only five players this season averaging 17 and 10 — along with Dwight Howard, David Lee, Kevin Love and Zach Randolph – and despite Millsap’s status as the most productive forward from the 2006 draft not named LaMarcus Aldridge.

There will be plenty of teams lined up to talk trade for both of these players.

Whether or not Utah finds a deal it likes, however, will depend on its internal definition of “front-line point guard,” of which there simply aren’t very many in the league at all, let alone ones teams are willing to part with.

Jefferson is at the end of a deal paying him $15 million this season, while Millsap will earn roughly half that in the final year of his contract. Dollars won’t be the only factor in deciding which player to keep, though, as the offers that will come in will likely be tied to a specific player, rather than being an either/or proposition.

If the Jazz are dead set on moving one of these two before they both hit free agency, they’ll likely be open to dealing either one equally — the player that’s valued the most by other teams will be the one sent out of town, if in fact that’s what the long-term plan in Utah dictates.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#223 » by Def Swami » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:16 pm

OT:
@MySportsLegion
Lakers rejected a trade offer of Josh Smith and Devin Harris for Pau Gasol and Chris Duhon this summer. (LA Times)


Edit: Not sure how credible this is. Have a real hard time believing this.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#224 » by Optimus_Steel » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:21 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:OT:
@MySportsLegion
Lakers rejected a trade offer of Josh Smith and Devin Harris for Pau Gasol and Chris Duhon this summer. (LA Times)



More like Atlanta rejected that trade. Duhon lol.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#225 » by InFlames » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:44 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
VGOSWAMI wrote:OT:
@MySportsLegion
Lakers rejected a trade offer of Josh Smith and Devin Harris for Pau Gasol and Chris Duhon this summer. (LA Times)



More like Atlanta rejected that trade. Duhon lol.


I call bull.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#226 » by KillMonger » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:00 am

Andrew vs the Warriors
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWbCBrVPTT4[/youtube]
His game is so smooth way ahead of the curve offensively and he's been better defensively also on the boards recently, too smart to not get better
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#227 » by MagicFan32 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:00 am

thelead wrote:
MagicFan32 wrote:if we could move out Afflalo in a deal for Dwill, i'd like to see us pursue OJ Mayo, and draft Burke or Marcus Smart and it wouldn't really hurt our future capspace at all.
13/14 lineup

Vucc/KOQ
Nicholson/Dwill
Hedo/Harkless
Mayo/Etwaun
Nelson/Smart or Burke

TBD: Trading JJ, and BBD , we would likely have another first rounder if we trade JJ, my idea is to Utah for their GSW 1st,.

I guess the jist of my idea is Mayo is an upgrade over Afflalo at about similar money, Dwill comes in and splits time in our big rotation, makes us younger and more athletic, and we still have all our capspace for 14 or 15.


That team looks like an 6th-8th seed. What is the plan to get us into contention? Adding any free agent from the 2015 pool doesn't get it done.

As opposed to hoping a franchise player magically drops out of the sky to us, is a plan? the plan is to build a young core and then use your capspace to bring in stars. sorry losing guarantee's us nothing at all
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#228 » by InFlames » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:37 am

Nicholson is something special.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#229 » by thelead » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:50 am

MagicFan32 wrote:
thelead wrote:
MagicFan32 wrote:if we could move out Afflalo in a deal for Dwill, i'd like to see us pursue OJ Mayo, and draft Burke or Marcus Smart and it wouldn't really hurt our future capspace at all.
13/14 lineup

Vucc/KOQ
Nicholson/Dwill
Hedo/Harkless
Mayo/Etwaun
Nelson/Smart or Burke

TBD: Trading JJ, and BBD , we would likely have another first rounder if we trade JJ, my idea is to Utah for their GSW 1st,.

I guess the jist of my idea is Mayo is an upgrade over Afflalo at about similar money, Dwill comes in and splits time in our big rotation, makes us younger and more athletic, and we still have all our capspace for 14 or 15.


That team looks like an 6th-8th seed. What is the plan to get us into contention? Adding any free agent from the 2015 pool doesn't get it done.

As opposed to hoping a franchise player magically drops out of the sky to us, is a plan? the plan is to build a young core and then use your capspace to bring in stars. sorry losing guarantee's us nothing at all

Okay, how do we contend under that plan? Serious question.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#230 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:51 am

MagicFan32 wrote:if we could move out Afflalo in a deal for Dwill, i'd like to see us pursue OJ Mayo, and draft Burke or Marcus Smart and it wouldn't really hurt our future capspace at all.
13/14 lineup

Vucc/KOQ
Nicholson/Dwill
Hedo/Harkless
Mayo/Etwaun
Nelson/Smart or Burke

TBD: Trading JJ, and BBD , we would likely have another first rounder if we trade JJ, my idea is to Utah for their GSW 1st,.

I guess the jist of my idea is Mayo is an upgrade over Afflalo at about similar money, Dwill comes in and splits time in our big rotation, makes us younger and more athletic, and we still have all our capspace for 14 or 15.


I don't think Mayo will be signing for cheap. But I like this team (No Otis). A young PG in the draft and a skilled wing like Tyreke Evans or OJ Mayo would put us in the right direction.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#231 » by MagicFan32 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:22 am

thelead wrote:Okay, how do we contend under that plan? Serious question.

by trying to attract stars via FA with cap flexibility? by developing young talent? how do you contend by tanking? you guys here have this notion that it's some sort of jackpot, well unless you have the no.1 pick the hit rate significantly drops off.

"tanking" is actually not a plan, that's just hoping you get lucky, and not building any sort of team

That means we have to hit on our picks, i think we can all see PG will be an area we need to improve soon, I think upgrading from Afflalo to Mayo, at a similar cost, and acquiring Dwill in the process improves the overall team, the progressions of Harkless/Nicholson/Vucevic will improve the team, combine that with about 30 million in capspace in 2 years, maybe more, yes I do think we can contend, much moreso than waiting on pingpong balls
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#232 » by thelead » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 am

MagicFan32 wrote:
thelead wrote:Okay, how do we contend under that plan? Serious question.

by trying to attract stars via FA with cap flexibility? by developing young talent? how do you contend by tanking? you guys here have this notion that it's some sort of jackpot, well unless you have the no.1 pick the hit rate significantly drops off.

"tanking" is actually not a plan, that's just hoping you get lucky, and not building any sort of team

That means we have to hit on our picks, i think we can all see PG will be an area we need to improve soon, I think upgrading from Afflalo to Mayo, at a similar cost, and acquiring Dwill in the process improves the overall team, the progressions of Harkless/Nicholson/Vucevic will improve the team, combine that with about 30 million in capspace in 2 years, maybe more, yes I do think we can contend, much moreso than waiting on pingpong balls

Okay, but who are you targeting in the next 2 years as far as free agents? Who specifically? I want real players that will be free agents in the next few years that will have us contending against Miami and OKC. You never mention names. Go through the list and give me the superstar that puts us over the top. Give me a real name.

I am not opposed to building your way but just don't see how with the current landscape of the nba and the free agent crop for the next 3 years minimum.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#233 » by MagicFan32 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:07 am

thelead wrote:
MagicFan32 wrote:
thelead wrote:Okay, how do we contend under that plan? Serious question.

by trying to attract stars via FA with cap flexibility? by developing young talent? how do you contend by tanking? you guys here have this notion that it's some sort of jackpot, well unless you have the no.1 pick the hit rate significantly drops off.

"tanking" is actually not a plan, that's just hoping you get lucky, and not building any sort of team

That means we have to hit on our picks, i think we can all see PG will be an area we need to improve soon, I think upgrading from Afflalo to Mayo, at a similar cost, and acquiring Dwill in the process improves the overall team, the progressions of Harkless/Nicholson/Vucevic will improve the team, combine that with about 30 million in capspace in 2 years, maybe more, yes I do think we can contend, much moreso than waiting on pingpong balls

Okay, but who are you targeting in the next 2 years as far as free agents? Who specifically? I want real players that will be free agents in the next few years that will have us contending against Miami and OKC. You never mention names. Go through the list and give me the superstar that puts us over the top. Give me a real name.

I am not opposed to building your way but just don't see how with the current landscape of the nba and the free agent crop for the next 3 years minimum.
how can we realistically be contending against OKC and Miami in two years after we blew our roster up? i haven't once suggested we would be an elite team in 2 years with my thought process, but guess what, it's going to take at minimum 3 unless something unlikely happens, i'm trying to make ideas rooted in reality which give us a chance in a few years. seriously even if we hit the lotto jackpot we aren't going to compete with Miami and OKC with a rookie superstar. Lebron/Melo/Bledsoe/Wall/Turner/Gay/Bosh/Randolph/Favors/Cousins/Monroe will all be UFA or RFA's in 2014, am I saying we'll get any of them? No but we're positioned to have a chance.

Houston accumulated assets and they were able to land a superstar via trade, the magic need to do the same thing, sorry i'm not content with trying to lose on purpose and hoping a ping pong ball determines our fate, the draft after the first pick is always hit and miss

My basic premise to begin with was, upgrading from Afflalo to Mayo for similar money, adding Williams giving us an athletic big who still has alot of potential, hopefully making a good pick in the 13' draft and having the money to be able to add to it, if people consider DWILL a bust, well that proves my point about the draft, he was picked 2nd.
aol4532 on bill russell
I think if you put McGee back then, he would get those blocks just as easily as Russell did. Russell's athleticism was well ahead of the players of his time, and that's about it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#234 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:56 pm

There is no blueprint for competing with the Elites quickly, or there would be more teams out there competing with the big markets. Teams have to build their core slowly like OKC winning the lottery multiple times while getting lucky, like Memphis building a core of vets over time or like New York, Lakers or Miami making big trades.

I am rooting for Memphis to surprise everyone this year and make a run for the Ship. That would be cool.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#235 » by _DudeItsMagic_ » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm

Hoops Rumors ‏@HoopsRumors
Al Harrington Likely Out For The Year, May Retire http://dlvr.it/2fTpGN #nba
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#236 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:17 pm

_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:Hoops Rumors ‏@HoopsRumors
Al Harrington Likely Out For The Year, May Retire http://dlvr.it/2fTpGN #nba


I knew it. I mentioned this the day we traded for him that he is about done. Unfortunately, this team could really use him for 15mpg off the bench at Center. He would be worth his contract to help out Vucevic.

I have no problem with this as long as next years contract salary doesn't count against the Magics cap. Anyone know?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#237 » by Cigamodnalro » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:44 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:Hoops Rumors ‏@HoopsRumors
Al Harrington Likely Out For The Year, May Retire http://dlvr.it/2fTpGN #nba


I knew it. I mentioned this the day we traded for him that he is about done. Unfortunately, this team could really use him for 15mpg off the bench at Center. He would be worth his contract to help out Vucevic.

I have no problem with this as long as next years contract salary doesn't count against the Magics cap. Anyone know?

Just posted in the other thread but it is likely that all 3 years will count against our cap if Harrington retires due to injury. And no one will trade for that at least until he is an expiring deal, at which point he will be worth less than other similar expirings because of his inability to step on the court and contribute
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#238 » by blue and white » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
_DudeItsMagic_ wrote:Hoops Rumors ‏@HoopsRumors
Al Harrington Likely Out For The Year, May Retire http://dlvr.it/2fTpGN #nba


I knew it. I mentioned this the day we traded for him that he is about done. Unfortunately, this team could really use him for 15mpg off the bench at Center. He would be worth his contract to help out Vucevic.

I have no problem with this as long as next years contract salary doesn't count against the Magics cap. Anyone know?

Just posted in the other thread but it is likely that all 3 years will count against our cap if Harrington retires due to injury. And no one will trade for that at least until he is an expiring deal, at which point he will be worth less than other similar expirings because of his inability to step on the court and contribute

Eddy Rivera ‏@erivera7
If Harrington indeed applies for a medical retirement, an injury exclusion could be granted to the Magic, which would wipe out his salary.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#239 » by Def Swami » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:54 pm

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @mcguirknba: Think we see the Magic do some moves soon? ---> No. Not unless some gives them a gift.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLIX"Reg. Season"Ed.) 

Post#240 » by blue and white » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list, forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played1. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:

If the player played 10 or more games1 that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
If the player played fewer than 10 games1 that season, 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.

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