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OT: Howard would have been better off staying in Orlando.

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Post#31 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:30 am by Javanar

OrlandO wrote:
magic04life wrote:I'm starting to think that Dwight will leave LA for Brooklyn next summer if this continues....and I think LA would gladly do a Howard for Lopez sign-and-trade.

That would make me sick. Bullies his way out of Orlando to his 2nd destination of choice and then somehow ends up at his top choice... Not to mention he and the Nets would be waiting for us if we ever made it back to the playoffs. If he leaves, I hope it's to another western conf team like Dallas

Shaq might be right. He said Bynum (when healthy) and Lope are both better centers than Dwight. He said Dwight is the best low-post player in the NBA, but he said that Lopez and Bynum (when healthy) are both better OVERALL centers.

I think it was the other way around... Shaq said Bynum/Lopez are the better offensive players because they actually have a consistent post game. No way he'd call them better overall centers because they can't score 20 and play defense like Dwight.


Not sure that will be easy for Brooklyn to get Howard. They're already paying 89 M for salaries, and there are 4 loaded long-term contracts.
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Post#32 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:08 am by IGotDaMagicInMe

Maybe if he's lucky we will take him back for minimum ;)
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Post#33 Re: AW: OT: Howard would have been better off
Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:52 am by AhaAha

Hell no...i don't want him to take away shots from big baby.
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Post#34 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:49 am by Optimus_Steel

J the Drafter wrote:
AhaAha wrote:Is it possible that dwight lost a bit of his athleticism? I mean even pre injury his play was not the same and some of us thought he just wasn't into the magic. I remember how he couldnt catch some lobs and this season his blocks aren't impressive and he isn't anchoring the defense at all.

I noticed the same thing. He didn't look able to jump as high in 2011 or 2012 as he did in earlier years. From what I've seen of his Lakers' games, Howard definitely hasn't been as athleletic as he used to be. Some Lakers fans have said the same thing, too. Maybe his speed and jumping will fully recover as his back gets better, but Dwight is still suffering the aftereffects of his injury and surgery.


Last year his jumping ability was slightly less, albeit very slightly, than in years past. This year he looks old man stiff when he is running back to the other side of the court or when he tries to move laterally when defending his man. He just doesn't look that flexible right now. It may be temporary until that back heals, but if its not then his days as one of the top 5 players in the league and as a top defender are done forever.

Right now he is still getting his stats but they are hollow numbers. He had 20 rebs yesterday but his impact in the game was minimal at best. I don't think its just the injury either, but he just doesn't have the fire he used to have when defending. There was one play that his man Verajao got open for a 15 ft jumper and Dwight just stood there and pointed to Kobe to go defend the shot. Problem is that Kobe was standing right next to Dwight. Then there was the highlight play when Verajao faked the jump shot from the baseline, Dwight dumbly went for the block and he blew by him like his feet where glued and threw down a nasty dunk. 2-3 years ago there was no way that Verajao would punk him like that, he would at least have recovered to challenge the drive. In crunch time Dwight had no impact at all defending the Cavs, its like he wasn't there. Dwight can continue to blame his teammates all he wants about defense but it all starts with him.
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Post#35 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am by OrlDave

doct3r dr3 wrote:2015 second round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
The L.A. Lakers' own 2015 2nd round draft pick to Orlando (Top-40 Protected). If The L.A. Lakers' own 2015 2nd round pick is within the top-40 selections, then The L.A. Lakers' obligation to Orlando shall be extinguished. [Denver - L.A. Lakers - Orlando - Philadelphia, 8/10/2012]

2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
The L.A. Lakers' own 2017 1st round draft pick to Orlando (Top-5 Protected). If The L.A. Lakers' own 2017 1st round pick is within the top-5 selections, then the L.A. Lakers will convey their own second round picks in 2017 and 2018 to Orlando. [L.A. Lakers - Orlando, 8/10/2012]


http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed


Thanks, so 2017. Well.... if all falls apart it might be a good pick.
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Post#36 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:51 am by Idunkonyou2

Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.
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Post#37 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:41 am by AhaAha

Idunkonyou2 wrote:Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.


Man we made some stupid claims...Start Larry Hughes, Von Wafer, Justin Harper,Ish Smith...
Turns out that Stan was right with all the decisions he made... i mean Hughes, Wafer and Harper are out of the league and most of us have already given up on Ish....
He overachieved big time for the players he had....
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Post#38 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 am by Nyce_1

Rob & SVG would've made a good combo. However, JV seems better at trusting the young players and giving them opportunities to learn and develop.
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Post#39 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 am by Zmill

AhaAha wrote:
Idunkonyou2 wrote:Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.


Man we made some stupid claims...Start Larry Hughes, Von Wafer, Justin Harper,Ish Smith...
Turns out that Stan was right with all the decisions he made... i mean Hughes, Wafer and Harper are out of the league and most of us have already given up on Ish....
He overachieved big time for the players he had....


This. I think people were so desperate in wanting to keep Dwight/Make a change that they actually convinced themselves that SVG was the problem. Stan played a key role in the development of JJ, Gortat, Lee, Anderson, and Dwight. He also played a key role in pushing Jameer and Turkoglu to post the best years of their career. Realgm users complained about his lack of playing young players and his inflexible rotation but this much is apparent now: Ish Smith, Justin Harper, Von Wafer, Daniel Orton, and Liggins are not NBA players at the minute, much less rotational NBA players. Also I know we didn't like the Stretch-4 offense But I think it is clear now that Dwight needs to play next to a stretch-4 to be an impact player on offense. Stan also made a Dwight Howard anchored team one of the best defensive teams in the league versus the Lakers defense while being anchored by Dwight.
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Post#40 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:46 am by BadMofoPimp

To give Stan credit, he took players like Vince, Shard and JRich, then made them change their roles to where they took much less shots to be team players and those players never complained about their reduced roles. Actually, players were actually fairly well behaved under Stan as he commanded respect. And, he led this team for many 50+ win seasons and at one point had like the 3rd best NBA record in a five year span. He accomplished all that with a team of Turk, Shard, various SG's and Meer. Really, just Shard and Meer reached all-star level one time during that span. Just a group of role players. And, reached the Finals of which everyone understands how freakin hard that is to accomplish and he did it with that team. Magic should just hang Stans ugly mug in the rafters. Heck, he still lives here in Lake Mary and is active in his community. I like Jacque Vaughn so far, but Stan is a legend.
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Post#41 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:48 am by tiderulz

Idunkonyou2 wrote:Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.


my problems with SVG.

Why is it that with almost all other coaches in the league, it didnt take them over a year for players to learn defensive schemes. But for Stan, that always seemed to be the excuse.

And why could not Stan see that a 3pt outside in offense had issues come playoffs. I understand that you have to work with the players you have, but there could have been some adjustments.

Things might have been better with Stan had we had a competent GM, but that is all in the past now.
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Post#42 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:03 pm by MoMM

Javanar wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
magic04life wrote:I'm starting to think that Dwight will leave LA for Brooklyn next summer if this continues....and I think LA would gladly do a Howard for Lopez sign-and-trade.

That would make me sick. Bullies his way out of Orlando to his 2nd destination of choice and then somehow ends up at his top choice... Not to mention he and the Nets would be waiting for us if we ever made it back to the playoffs. If he leaves, I hope it's to another western conf team like Dallas

Shaq might be right. He said Bynum (when healthy) and Lope are both better centers than Dwight. He said Dwight is the best low-post player in the NBA, but he said that Lopez and Bynum (when healthy) are both better OVERALL centers.

I think it was the other way around... Shaq said Bynum/Lopez are the better offensive players because they actually have a consistent post game. No way he'd call them better overall centers because they can't score 20 and play defense like Dwight.


Not sure that will be easy for Brooklyn to get Howard. They're already paying 89 M for salaries, and there are 4 loaded long-term contracts.

Dallas (with CP3) or Atlanta (with Josh) are my bets.
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Post#43 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:12 pm by SD2042

To me, Dwight was rushed back for the Lakers so called championship run. Remember the doctors and Dwight himself stated in the summer that it would be January when he would've been clear to play. Not 100% convinced he may have gained some of that athleticism back just yet. I understand this season is still early, but I can see Dwight moving on from the Lakers if this debacle continues. Along with other issues like D'Antoni system don't match the players on the squad. No defense. No facilitator in Nash to keep pressure off Kobe.
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Post#44 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:33 pm by BadMofoPimp

Well, if it is true that the Media and fans are babying Dwight to not alienate him, then Dwight is going to learn that he has no friends or true fans over in L.A. Just all fake people propping him up on a pedestal. He will never be loved. At least he had fans that adored him in Orlando. He wouldn't get that in New York either, but maybe Dallas.
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Post#45 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:34 pm by Hilltop

Threads like these are premature. We've had many of these about the Heat and we all know how that turned out. The Lakers have the talent and the firepower to win a championship. They just need Nash back, a new coach, and a little more time to find their chemistry.
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Post#46 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:42 pm by Idunkonyou2

Hilltop wrote:Threads like these are premature. We've had many of these about the Heat and we all know how that turned out. The Lakers have the talent and the firepower to win a championship. They just need Nash back, a new coach, and a little more time to find their chemistry.


That is why I said I know it is early, but.

Also the Heat were a different beast. They weren't old, slow and sucked on defense. The Lakers have major issues from the coaching style, to age, to injuries and the list goes on and on. Not to mention they are in a tough west conference that I'm sure is all smiles right now watching this ship take on water with every passing loss that comes their way.
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Post#47 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:42 pm by arsenal6106

Hilltop wrote:Threads like these are premature. We've had many of these about the Heat and we all know how that turned out. The Lakers have the talent and the firepower to win a championship. They just need Nash back, a new coach, and a little more time to find their chemistry.



They're not getting a new coach. Unless they want to have 3 different coaches on their payroll.
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Post#48 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:26 pm by magic04life

Stan Van pushed Dwight. Even though they weren't friends off the court, he always got the most out of Dwight and the whole team.

Which is what a good coach does. Stan was a legend.
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Post#49 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:40 pm by NickAnderson

tiderulz wrote:
Idunkonyou2 wrote:Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.


my problems with SVG.

Why is it that with almost all other coaches in the league, it didnt take them over a year for players to learn defensive schemes. But for Stan, that always seemed to be the excuse.

And why could not Stan see that a 3pt outside in offense had issues come playoffs. I understand that you have to work with the players you have, but there could have been some adjustments.

Things might have been better with Stan had we had a competent GM, but that is all in the past now.


Bravo!

I've always asked these questions and more about stan and never get a straight answer. It was always Stan is the best coach in magic history..
Technooo....
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Post#50 Re: OT: Howard would have been better off sta
Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:32 am by PickNRoll

tiderulz wrote:
Idunkonyou2 wrote:Looking back, we should have got rid of Howard and kept SVG. SVG was the best coach in Magic history period. Yes he mouthed some things to the media you probably shouldn't, but I don't care. What I do care about is a no nonsense coach who makes sure his guys are ready to play every night and gets on their butt when he sees them relaxing. That was SVG in a nutshell, with some great commentary to go with it. He was 100% real and it made me sick when the media blasted him for it.


my problems with SVG.

Why is it that with almost all other coaches in the league, it didnt take them over a year for players to learn defensive schemes. But for Stan, that always seemed to be the excuse.

And why could not Stan see that a 3pt outside in offense had issues come playoffs. I understand that you have to work with the players you have, but there could have been some adjustments.

Things might have been better with Stan had we had a competent GM, but that is all in the past now.


I also have to believe that Otis got Stan's input on the roster moves. I would be floored to hear that SVG didn't sign off on the moves made with his squad.

Loved SVG the person, but as a coach he frustrated the bejeez out of me. Lack of adjustments, rigid rotation, giving everyone a green light to shoot bad threes, leaving Howrd in when you know they're going to hack him... Frankly, it was an ugly style of BBall that is always going to lead to a decent reg season record and a trip to the playoffs that lasts as long as we can stay hot from downtown. It's the Gonzaga offense.
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