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Where does Vooch rank among all centers in the NBA?

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Post#31 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:23 am by SmiteaDwight

GameOver25 wrote:
SmiteaDwight wrote:
Bobby Ray wrote:Vuc is just scratching the surface of his potential man, He has a post game he can build off of. He has a jumper with nice range that can actually be extended to the 3pt line if he chooses to and coach may have alluded to. His frame can still fill out some so he has room to get stronger which in turn will only help his rebounding and help him get post position. Really the only weakness he has is that he's not really athletic but his length helps kinda offset that and you can't say he's a bad defender either because he's not. He can only get better and i'm glad we have him, i personally know some philly fans regretting not playing him and giving him up


I've heard the "he can add strength" argument before for Gortat and frankly, until they actually do it, I'am not convinced anything will happen.

Right now Vooch is simply Vooch.

A good player that won't take you places but won't fck you either.

unless we become good and resign him, we'll have to let him go because he'll be too expensive.


This makes no sense. The point of rebuilding is to get better. You do that by keeping Vuc, who's still young and proving to be a solid big and trade your current assets (JJ, Baby, etc). I'm not understanding your last sentence.


If Vooch continues to develop he will eventually command 8 figs. Unless we have a chance to be good in that season, do you really want to commit to paying that?
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Post#32 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:29 am by Vuc N Pek

Even though i am from Montenegro , i would say he is still away from top10 centers in NBA but since he is only 22, but he has all things and skills to become one of them in the future.I used to go in same school as him he looked like a giant to me even though i was 2nd tallest guy(i am now 194cm tall not quite sure how u measure that because we use metric system)

Funny thing is that Pekovic and Vucevic both were sidelined by their coaches and they believed they would never made even decent career, mostly because our coaches like giving more attention to PG/SG(i am talking about coaching youngsters) which mostly turned out to be flops and currently Montenegro despite having population of 650k have top 3 frontcourt in Europe thanks to them and few other young guys which have huge potential such as Bojan Dubljevic which is our stretch 4 with European Kevin Love potential.Nikola Mirotic which is drafted by Bulls is also Montenegrin(playing for Real Madrid) but with Spanish passport(there is a lot of drama will FIBA allow Spain to keep both him and Ibaka if they dont allow that Mirotic will probably play for us).Even w/o Vooch and Pek Montenegro managed to finish undefeated in our group topping Israel and Serbia on Eurobasket 2013 qualification.

After seeing him getting drafted by Philly and playing decent for minutes he got, i was glad he ended up in team like Orlando because i knew he would get more minutes and real chance after Howard departure.I am also amazed how much he improved his game since last time i saw him playing during NBA lockout which probably have something to do with Magic bigs coaches which certainly helped him grow into legit starting center and double-double machine.What i am hoping right now is that he definitely need to improve his defensive game because even for me he look soft sometimes.

I hope i made my points about him clear and understandable,not quite sure about my english skills but i tried to make it sound as simple i could.
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Post#33 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:25 pm by GameOver25

SmiteaDwight wrote:
GameOver25 wrote:
SmiteaDwight wrote:
I've heard the "he can add strength" argument before for Gortat and frankly, until they actually do it, I'am not convinced anything will happen.

Right now Vooch is simply Vooch.

A good player that won't take you places but won't fck you either.

unless we become good and resign him, we'll have to let him go because he'll be too expensive.


This makes no sense. The point of rebuilding is to get better. You do that by keeping Vuc, who's still young and proving to be a solid big and trade your current assets (JJ, Baby, etc). I'm not understanding your last sentence.


If Vooch continues to develop he will eventually command 8 figs. Unless we have a chance to be good in that season, do you really want to commit to paying that?


Honestly I think it's too early to tell. I can't answer that right now. I think we need to see how the rebuild process goes first.
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Post#34 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:04 pm by OrlDave

Vuc N Pek wrote:Even though i am from Montenegro , i would say he is still away from top10 centers in NBA but since he is only 22, but he has all things and skills to become one of them in the future.I used to go in same school as him he looked like a giant to me even though i was 2nd tallest guy(i am now 194cm tall not quite sure how u measure that because we use metric system)

Funny thing is that Pekovic and Vucevic both were sidelined by their coaches and they believed they would never made even decent career, mostly because our coaches like giving more attention to PG/SG(i am talking about coaching youngsters) which mostly turned out to be flops and currently Montenegro despite having population of 650k have top 3 frontcourt in Europe thanks to them and few other young guys which have huge potential such as Bojan Dubljevic which is our stretch 4 with European Kevin Love potential.Nikola Mirotic which is drafted by Bulls is also Montenegrin(playing for Real Madrid) but with Spanish passport(there is a lot of drama will FIBA allow Spain to keep both him and Ibaka if they dont allow that Mirotic will probably play for us).Even w/o Vooch and Pek Montenegro managed to finish undefeated in our group topping Israel and Serbia on Eurobasket 2013 qualification.

After seeing him getting drafted by Philly and playing decent for minutes he got, i was glad he ended up in team like Orlando because i knew he would get more minutes and real chance after Howard departure.I am also amazed how much he improved his game since last time i saw him playing during NBA lockout which probably have something to do with Magic bigs coaches which certainly helped him grow into legit starting center and double-double machine.What i am hoping right now is that he definitely need to improve his defensive game because even for me he look soft sometimes.

I hope i made my points about him clear and understandable,not quite sure about my english skills but i tried to make it sound as simple i could.


Nice post. I understood most of it. (194 cm is about 6 foot 4 according to google). Thanks for the input. :)
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Post#35 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:16 pm by RickB-Orlando

SmiteaDwight wrote:If Vooch continues to develop he will eventually command 8 figs. Unless we have a chance to be good in that season, do you really want to commit to paying that?


Yes, yes I do. That's exactly the idea of getting young talent - you develop them and lock them in long term so you can build around them and win.

What strategy are you suggesting, develop one piece at a time but keep none of them because they aren't good enough to win a title all by themselves?

Building a team is a process, you add pieces and in time hope they develop and meld as you add more pieces. You don't throw away the good ones just because they're only the first piece.
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Post#36 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:03 pm by SmiteaDwight

RickB-Orlando wrote:
SmiteaDwight wrote:If Vooch continues to develop he will eventually command 8 figs. Unless we have a chance to be good in that season, do you really want to commit to paying that?


Yes, yes I do. That's exactly the idea of getting young talent - you develop them and lock them in long term so you can build around them and win.

What strategy are you suggesting, develop one piece at a time but keep none of them because they aren't good enough to win a title all by themselves?

Building a team is a process, you add pieces and in time hope they develop and meld as you add more pieces. You don't throw away the good ones just because they're only the first piece.


I'm just saying unless we can get other good pieces to put around him, paying him 8 figs isnt going to solve anything. That's the same predicament Cleveland is currently in with Anderson Varejao. I'm more for playing moneyball and find as many small contracts as we can until we're sure we have some guys who can develop into players. Right now we don't have that. I'm not encouraged by Hark or Nicholson.
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Post#37 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:55 pm by SmiteaDwight

SmiteaDwight wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:
SmiteaDwight wrote:If Vooch continues to develop he will eventually command 8 figs. Unless we have a chance to be good in that season, do you really want to commit to paying that?


Yes, yes I do. That's exactly the idea of getting young talent - you develop them and lock them in long term so you can build around them and win.

What strategy are you suggesting, develop one piece at a time but keep none of them because they aren't good enough to win a title all by themselves?

Building a team is a process, you add pieces and in time hope they develop and meld as you add more pieces. You don't throw away the good ones just because they're only the first piece.


I'm just saying unless we can get other good pieces to put around him, paying him 8 figs isnt going to solve anything. That's the same predicament Cleveland is currently in with Anderson Varejao. I'm more for playing moneyball and find as many small contracts as we can until we're sure we have some guys who can develop into players. Right now we don't have that. I'm not encouraged by Hark or Nicholson.


We honestly just did this with Ryno lol.
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Post#38 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:21 pm by AhaAha

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Post#39 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:14 pm by Big Boss

The rumor out there is that everyone but Vucevic is on the table for trades, that's how much the front office likes the guy so whether we want to pay him the big bucks or not he's in the future plans for now that is
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Post#40 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 am by drsd

AhaAha wrote:http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47035/why-nikola-vucevic-could-be-the-next-marc-gasol

Nice article about Vuc.



A Marc Gasol comparison seems appropriate.

A note: Vučević now has 16 straight games with 9 or more rebounds.



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Post#41 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:29 pm by OrlDave

I liked this line in that article... "As a non-athlete, Vucevic relies on solid positioning and his tremendous length (7-5 wingspan) to suck up errant shots"

What that means is that when Vuc is 35 (barring injury of course), he can still be scooping up rebounds because he isn't relying on a diminishing skill set to get them. Positioning is mostly mental and that usually gets better with age and wingspan shouldn't change much. Makes me think of Arvydas Sabonis who played in the NBA till 40 and then played a few years after for Lithuania. All of this is moot if we don't keep him, of course.
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Post#42 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:08 am by drsd

OrlDave wrote:Makes me think of Arvydas Sabonis who played in the NBA till 40 and then played a few years after for Lithuania. All of this is moot if we don't keep him, of course.



He and Charles Barkley also used girth to push players out of the way and hold position. Vučević needs to hit the gym hard in the coming off season. He needs another 10 pounds, and his limited shoulder width keeps him from becoming an imposing weight. But if Vučević can start to develop Kevin Love's approach to his body and rebounding, Vučević could easily develop as his generations best rebounding Center. That will make up for what will likely be a career of below-average team defense.


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Post#43 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:29 am by SmiteaDwight

I figured I'd bring this question back after 3 months of 13 and 13...
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Post#44 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:59 am by IGotDaMagicInMe

He's a better CENTER than Bosh, thats for sure
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Post#45 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 3:03 am by IGotDaMagicInMe

I would say somewhere between 10-15
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Post#46 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:05 pm by Def Swami

SmiteaDwight wrote:I figured I'd bring this question back after 3 months of 13 and 13...

Top 8-10

1. D. Howard
2. M. Gasol
3. J. Noah
4. T. Chandler
5. B. Lopez
6. A. Jefferson
7. N. Pekovic
8. N. Vucevic
9. R. Hibbert
10. L. Sanders

7-10 is variable.
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Post#47 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:15 pm by KingRobb02

VGOSWAMI wrote:
SmiteaDwight wrote:I figured I'd bring this question back after 3 months of 13 and 13...

Top 8-10

1. D. Howard
2. M. Gasol
3. J. Noah
4. T. Chandler
5. B. Lopez
6. A. Jefferson
7. N. Pekovic
8. N. Vucevic
9. R. Hibbert
10. L. Sanders

7-10 is variable.

Like it or not, these guys are centers too... Horford, Bosh, Garnett, Duncan, Koufos, Greg Monroe, Cousins, Deandre Jordan. Plus I probably take Hibbert and Sanders over Vucevic just because of their defensive impact even though Sanders doesn't play enough. that 14-17 range is pretty much where he belongs.

No one asked, but Howard, Gasol, Brook, Duncan, Noah, Chandler, KG, Bosh, Pek, Cousins, Horford, Hibbert, Monroe, Vucevic, Jordan, Sanders
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Post#48 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:46 pm by Last Guardian

He just isn't good at the one thing you want from your center...interior defense. But he is a great offensive player. He can shoot, decent post game (hopefully continues to develop), amazing touch around the basket and not a bad passer either. And obivously he can rebound the hell out of the ball. Any semblance of defensive improvement and he probably a top 5 center next season.
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Post#49 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:54 pm by KingRobb02

Last Guardian wrote:He just isn't good at the one thing you want from your center...interior defense. But he is a great offensive player. He can shoot, decent post game (hopefully continues to develop), amazing touch around the basket and not a bad passer either. And obivously he can rebound the hell out of the ball. Any semblance of defensive improvement and he probably a top 5 center next season.

The one thing I notice from his highlights last night is that most of the time there is no reason to guard him in the high screen and roll because are guard don't make that pass. For the most part the Heat were sending both guys to trap the ball handler, he tries to dribble around it instead of passing to a wide open Vucevic and then Vucevic ends up getting a secondary pass or an offensive rebound. Plus, we NEVER just pass him the ball in the deep post, it's always around the 18 foot mark for an open jumper. Sigh.

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Post#50 Re: Where does Vooch rank among all centers i
Thu Mar 7, 2013 1:36 pm by ilikebeer

KingRobb02 wrote:enters too... Horford, Bosh, Garnett, Duncan, Koufos, Greg Monroe, Cousins, Deandre Jordan. Plus I probably take Hibbert and Sanders over Vucevic just because of their defensive impact even though Sanders doesn't play enough. that 14-17 range is pretty much where he belongs.

No one asked, but Howard, Gasol, Brook, Duncan, Noah, Chandler, KG, Bosh, Pek, Cousins, Horford, Hibbert, Monroe, Vucevic, Jordan, Sanders


You have to look at basketball for what it is. 50% of the time you are on offense, 50% of the time you are on defense.

On offense, Vucevic is a top ten center. On defense, he is one of the worst centers in the NBA. All the analysts say it's harder for young players to initially learn to play effective NBA defense. Vucevic should continue to improve on defense. If he can ever become a top 10 defender, he will be one of the best centers in the league.
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