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MagicFan32 wrote:

Bensational wrote:Redick seems much more influential over our W's and L's than Afflalo.

in W's, Redick averages 18ppg on 52%fg and 48%3fg, along with 2.6rpg and 5.2apg in 31.6mpg
in W's, Afflalo averages 18ppg on 48%fg and 47%3fg, along with 4.7rpg and 2.8apg in 37.4mpg

in L's, Redick averages 12.5ppg on 40% and 32%, 2.1rpg, 3.8apg in 30mpg
in L's, Afflalo averages 17ppg on 43% and 28%, 3.2rpg, 3apg in 37.4mpg

in some ways, i'll be annoyed if we trade JJ only to retain Afflalo. i like AA, but i feel like JJ has really been dogged his dues. AA isn't any kind of significant upgrade, and he's not having a significant breakout that i'd imagine the Magic would have liked. give JJ 36mpg and the freedom to put up as many shots as he wants, and i'm sure you'd see just as much of a breakout, if not a bigger one.

I won't be.

Afflalo can get his own shot, while he is frustrating at times, if we had a real franchise player, he would look a hell of alot better to us, i think his last 15 he is averaging 20 ppg, he also has a good contract and only 27, JJ quite possibly is going to get paid more than Afflalo. Afflalo frustrates us because he's being asked to do to much, JJ has similar issues but people overlook them alot more

AA is putting up 20ppg because he's getting the shots and the minutes. He isn't producing any more than JJ is capable of doing.

If we had a franchise player and a legit #2, then AA's ability to find his own shot isn't as valuable as JJ's ability to find an open man. Besides, JJ can create his own shots at times too.

AA's a year younger than JJ, and who knows what JJ's pay will be?

Surprise there is not more on the rumors of Jonathan Clay to Boston. What I do not see in that is what the Celtics would offer. Fab Melo and a 1st? And why would Boston want that? If a big is "thrown in", that is Harrington. And then, how could the prices ever match?

Any Boston offer for Redick seems certain to involve a third team.

drsd wrote:Surprise there is not more on the rumors of Jonathan Clay to Boston. What I do not see in that is what the Celtics would offer. Fab Melo and a 1st? And why would Boston want that? If a big is "thrown in", that is Harrington. And then, how could the prices ever match?

Any Boston offer for Redick seems certain to involve a third team.

with Bradley, Lee and Terry, why would they want to get another SG?

Lets cut AA a little slack here guys...

Because he starts he's seeing more minutes against the other teams starting shooting guard. THEN he has to go play out of position at the 3. I love what JJ brings and he's no slouch on D either, but I will take AA defense over JJ's any day.

tiderulz wrote:

drsd wrote:Surprise there is not more on the rumors of Jonathan Clay to Boston. What I do not see in that is what the Celtics would offer. Fab Melo and a 1st? And why would Boston want that? If a big is "thrown in", that is Harrington. And then, how could the prices ever match?

Any Boston offer for Redick seems certain to involve a third team.

with Bradley, Lee and Terry, why would they want to get another SG?

Bradley is small, Terry is old and inconsistent, and Lee is adequate but no Redick--especially from deep or with the game on the line?

JJ has always gotten a pass from this fanbase and I don't get it. When he plays bad, nobody brings it up. But when Afflalo plays bad, everyone whines.

D12VCMagic wrote:JJ has always gotten a pass from this fanbase and I don't get it. When he plays bad, nobody brings it up. But when Afflalo plays bad, everyone whines.

JJ is a living legend, he gets a lifetime pass

drsd wrote:WIth Lou WIlliams out, look for the Hawks to "over-pay" for a quality SG. Would Orlando send Redick to an in conference team? If the playoffs are written off, then yes.

Would John Jenkins and a 1st get it done?


..

To quote me, would John Jenkins and a 1st be enough for Atlanta to trade for Redick?



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drsd wrote:

drsd wrote:WIth Lou WIlliams out, look for the Hawks to "over-pay" for a quality SG. Would Orlando send Redick to an in conference team? If the playoffs are written off, then yes.

Would John Jenkins and a 1st get it done?


..

To quote me, would John Jenkins and a 1st be enough for Atlanta to trade for Redick?



..

I think we can find better than a deep prospect and the #16 pick, but if it's the best thing on the table at the deadline, I'd probably do it.

gp123 wrote:Lets cut AA a little slack here guys...

Because he starts he's seeing more minutes against the other teams starting shooting guard. THEN he has to go play out of position at the 3. I love what JJ brings and he's no slouch on D either, but I will take AA defense over JJ's any day.

AA is fine. I think he's a good character guy, I like his hustle, and I think he's an efficient player. I just don't think he's any major upgrade over JJ, he doesn't have the history with Orlando that JJ does, and if we're looking at a team that doesn't have a single core piece yet, then he may not even have a future with the team.

One thing I do like about AA, though, is how he'll get to the rim on his own. He's actually quite good at that, and if he did it more often he'd probably elevate his game a whole other level.

drsd wrote:

drsd wrote:WIth Lou WIlliams out, look for the Hawks to "over-pay" for a quality SG. Would Orlando send Redick to an in conference team? If the playoffs are written off, then yes.

Would John Jenkins and a 1st get it done?


..

To quote me, would John Jenkins and a 1st be enough for Atlanta to trade for Redick?



..

Atl also own houstons 2013 first and brooklyns 2014/2015 firsts, so a bit of ammo there...

shadrock wrote:

drsd wrote:

drsd wrote:WIth Lou WIlliams out, look for the Hawks to "over-pay" for a quality SG. Would Orlando send Redick to an in conference team? If the playoffs are written off, then yes.

Would John Jenkins and a 1st get it done?


..

To quote me, would John Jenkins and a 1st be enough for Atlanta to trade for Redick?



..

Atl also own houstons 2013 first and brooklyns 2014/2015 firsts, so a bit of ammo there...

In a draft deep in talent but without a bona fide superstar, the 16th and 19th picks might not be terrible return for JJ Redick. Could likely turn those into a pick around 10-12, which would give us a shot at one of Smart/McCollum/Burke.

D12VCMagic wrote:JJ has always gotten a pass from this fanbase and I don't get it. When he plays bad, nobody brings it up. But when Afflalo plays bad, everyone whines.

Being extremely good looking has its perks.

magicman123 wrote:

D12VCMagic wrote:JJ has always gotten a pass from this fanbase and I don't get it. When he plays bad, nobody brings it up. But when Afflalo plays bad, everyone whines.

JJ is a living legend, he gets a lifetime pass

He is the only student left of the Great Diener. Of course he gets a pass

Bensational wrote:
One thing I do like about AA, though, is how he'll get to the rim on his own. He's actually quite good at that, and if he did it more often he'd probably elevate his game a whole other level.

He's certainly as good or better then anyone we've had on the team in recent years... but I always get this mental image of the Tasmanian Devil cartoon every time he starts charging on a fast-break... He's just a wee bit out of control sometimes.

shadrock wrote:Atl also own houstons 2013 first and brooklyns 2014/2015 firsts, so a bit of ammo there...

To recap on the meaning, this would have Orlando selecting in 2003 at around #8 and #16. In 2014, along with the Magic's own selection, let's call it #13, the New-York-2's at around #20, and the Magic get a lower pick from Denver, perhaps #24.

Trading Redick for John Jenkins and the Houston 2013 and Brooklyn 2014 pick ensures that the Magic will have a wealth of youth.

2013: two 1st picks
2014: three 1st picks
2015: two 1st picks
2016: two 1st picks

And already in the youth-club:
Harkless 1993
Jones 1990
Moore 1989
Nicholson 1989
O'Quinn 1990
Smith 1988
Vučević 1990


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Bensational wrote:

MagicFan32 wrote:

Bensational wrote:Redick seems much more influential over our W's and L's than Afflalo.

in W's, Redick averages 18ppg on 52%fg and 48%3fg, along with 2.6rpg and 5.2apg in 31.6mpg
in W's, Afflalo averages 18ppg on 48%fg and 47%3fg, along with 4.7rpg and 2.8apg in 37.4mpg

in L's, Redick averages 12.5ppg on 40% and 32%, 2.1rpg, 3.8apg in 30mpg
in L's, Afflalo averages 17ppg on 43% and 28%, 3.2rpg, 3apg in 37.4mpg

in some ways, i'll be annoyed if we trade JJ only to retain Afflalo. i like AA, but i feel like JJ has really been dogged his dues. AA isn't any kind of significant upgrade, and he's not having a significant breakout that i'd imagine the Magic would have liked. give JJ 36mpg and the freedom to put up as many shots as he wants, and i'm sure you'd see just as much of a breakout, if not a bigger one.

I won't be.

Afflalo can get his own shot, while he is frustrating at times, if we had a real franchise player, he would look a hell of alot better to us, i think his last 15 he is averaging 20 ppg, he also has a good contract and only 27, JJ quite possibly is going to get paid more than Afflalo. Afflalo frustrates us because he's being asked to do to much, JJ has similar issues but people overlook them alot more

AA is putting up 20ppg because he's getting the shots and the minutes. He isn't producing any more than JJ is capable of doing.

If we had a franchise player and a legit #2, then AA's ability to find his own shot isn't as valuable as JJ's ability to find an open man. Besides, JJ can create his own shots at times too.

AA's a year younger than JJ, and who knows what JJ's pay will be?

Afflalo has been averaging 19 ppg for two months now, shooting 46% this is not meant to disparage JJ but JJ can't really get his own shot very much, JJ also gets some easier matchups by coming off the bench. but JJ tries to do to much like Afflalo does to, and people here completely ignore it, while magnifying every Afflalo mistake.

Afflalo is the no.5 scoring 2 guard in the league and if he keeps up his last 2 months, his PPG would be 1 behind the no.3 2 guard, Dwayne Wade, I'm not sure how you cannot consider him "legit" he is a legitimate starting 2 in the league and a good one who got off to a bad start

Magic Give:
JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, Jameer Nelson , Gustavo Ayon

Magic Get:
Raymon Sessions, Ben Gordon (Contract ends next year), Gerald Henderson, Blazers 2013 1st round pick (Owned by Bobcats), Memphis 2014 1st Round pick

Memphis Gives:
Rudy gay, 2014 1st Round pick

Memphis gets:
JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, DeSagana Diop


Bobcats give:
Raymon Sessions, Ben Gordon, Gerald Henderson, DeSagana Diop, and the Blazers 2013 1st round pick.

Bobcats get:
Rudy Gay , Jameer Nelson, Gustavo Ayon

Bigmagicfan82 wrote:Magic Give:
JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, Jameer Nelson , Gustavo Ayon

Magic Get:
Raymon Sessions, Ben Gordon (Contract ends next year), Gerald Henderson, Blazers 2013 1st round pick (Owned by Bobcats), Memphis 2014 1st Round pick

Memphis Gives:
Rudy gay, 2014 1st Round pick

Memphis gets:
JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, DeSagana Diop


Bobcats give:
Raymon Sessions, Ben Gordon, Gerald Henderson, DeSagana Diop, and the Blazers 2013 1st round pick.

Bobcats get:
Rudy Gay , Jameer Nelson, Gustavo Ayon

as of right now, Memphis owes their 2013 pick so i dont think they can trade their 2014 1st rounder.

MagicFan32 wrote:

Bensational wrote:AA is putting up 20ppg because he's getting the shots and the minutes. He isn't producing any more than JJ is capable of doing.

If we had a franchise player and a legit #2, then AA's ability to find his own shot isn't as valuable as JJ's ability to find an open man. Besides, JJ can create his own shots at times too.

AA's a year younger than JJ, and who knows what JJ's pay will be?

Afflalo has been averaging 19 ppg for two months now, shooting 46% this is not meant to disparage JJ but JJ can't really get his own shot very much, JJ also gets some easier matchups by coming off the bench. but JJ tries to do to much like Afflalo does to, and people here completely ignore it, while magnifying every Afflalo mistake.

Afflalo is the no.5 scoring 2 guard in the league and if he keeps up his last 2 months, his PPG would be 1 behind the no.3 2 guard, Dwayne Wade, I'm not sure how you cannot consider him "legit" he is a legitimate starting 2 in the league and a good one who got off to a bad start

AA has been getting the minutes, and the shots. he plays 37mpg compared to JJ's 31. he gets 14.5 FGAs compared to JJ's 11.5. that, right there, is the disparity. JJ is ranked 16th, and he's playing fewer minutes and taking fewer attempts.

JJ has had 25 games where he played 30-39mpg. in those, he averages 34mpg, 16.8ppg on 12FGAs, shooting 47% and 38%. He also chips in 4.9apg.

JJ also outperforms AA in PPS and PPP. JJ is ranked 48th in the league for Points Per Possession, and AA is ranked 120th. JJ's the 10th best spot up shooter in the league. AA doesn't crack the top 40 in any particular area. JJ's also a better defender in terms of PPP allowed. he ranks 106th, compared to AA's 220th. (bragging aside, I was really suprised to note that JJ is also ranked as the 13th best defender on isolation plays. AA is ranked 60th, and that's not bad, either, IMO.)

i think you took my "legit #2" comment the wrong way. i meant legit #2 option, not a legit 2 guard. AA is certainly legit, i don't question that at all. my point was that he's not good enough, IMO, to be a top 2 option on a championship team. and if you've got 2 top options that are taking away shots from him, i wonder if his strength, his efficient shooting, becomes somewhat nullified?

again, please let me qualify that i like AA. i'm not against him in any way. i just think JJ has more than earned his time to be a starter here, and AA isn't doing enough to warrant him not getting that opportunity - yet. JJ may play beyond his abilities sometimes, sure, but i think people give him a pass because he's also far more likely to make a smart play to make up for that.