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Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay

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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#21 » by ADRajX » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:02 am

VGOSWAMI wrote:
DJRajX wrote:If it's only Redick + TPE for Rudy, then I'm all for it

PG- Nelson/Moore
SG- Afflalo/Jones
SF- Gay/Harkless
PF- Davis/Nicholson
C - Vucevic

Not too bad

I don't want to give up Vucevic or Nicholson... and I don't want to give up both Afflalo AND Redick. We need to keep either one of them at SG. Of course with that all said, I doubt Memphis will ask for only Redick, and I doubt Orlando will even end up dealing for Rudy.

Wouldn't even mind JJ+Harrington or Hedo.

that would be great if we got rid of Hedo or Harrington.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#22 » by OrlandO » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:18 am

rudy..... rudy..... rudy....
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#23 » by ChosenSavior » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:59 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7lIjFsGvg[/youtube]

8-)
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#24 » by Bensational » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:16 am

Orium wrote:
Bensational wrote: Nene's 4 year contract is a killer, but he is still a decent player, and he could very well remain as filler for a s&t.


This is where you lost me. That's an Otis mistake if I've ever seen one.


no, an Otis mistake would be to take on big contracts that extend beyond critical free agency periods, or extend beyond the contract of the cornerstone of the franchise. we don't have a cornerstone, and of the upcoming FA crops of 2013/14, there aren't any superstars that we realistically have a chance of signing at this point.

without that deal, we're looking at roughly $14M cap space this summer, if we cut Hedo and Harrington. and we're looking at $23 - $31M cap space in 2014/15, depending on whether or not we decline Jameer's option.

if you made the deal, we're going to be $3M over the cap in 2013/14, and have $6 - $14M cap space in 2014/15 (depending on Jameer) - and that's without making any trade to offload BBD or Afflalo. still enough to chase a near max FA.

by making this deal, you're sacrificing $17M of cap space in those offseasons, but is there a player that you'd pick up with that money instead that would be more valuable than Beal? Josh Smith, Monta, Al Jeff, Millsap, Tyreke in 2013/14. None of those guys are good enough to build a team around, and they'd be locked into a long term deal. LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Melo, Dirk, Wall (restricted), and more in 2014/15. They've either got no interest in coming to a rebuilding Orlando (big 3/Melo), or they're too old (Dirk), or they're not good enough to build a team around (Gay).

and whilst most of these guys perform much better than him now, a) you'd have to convince them to come here, b) Beal has the potential to be much better in 2 seasons time, and c) having Beal on the team as a tradeable asset is better than having cap space and hoping to use that to absorb a talented player. Houston has made it clear that the quickest way to get ahead is to stockpile talent. if that comes at the expense of Nene preventing us from signing a 2nd tier player long term, then so be it.

Nene is overpaid, but then so are the majority of big men these days. he's actually paid only slightly over market rate, to be honest. if we're looking to swing a s&t, or even a trade for a disgruntled star, then a player like Nene could do well to fill out numbers and provide a decent player. he's certainly not on the Hedo and Arenas scale of players being overpaid for their (lack of) impact. he wouldn't be easy to move, but as a solid big man, he's going to hold his value a lot longer than former stars who were paid like stars.


blue and white wrote:why try and get beal when you can just get his even better clone in ben mclemore? or better yet bazz?


this would be, arguably, my biggest apprehension. i'm not sure whether or not I value these guys over Beal at this point. i guess that would come down to Hennigan's scouting reports, and his abilities as a GM to decide whether or not they're better prospects.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#25 » by Def Swami » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:23 am

ChosenSavior wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7lIjFsGvg[/youtube]

8-)

:rofl:
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#26 » by Viper1500 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:09 am

Nice post by Bensational, and I agree on 95% of what you said but I'd definitely take Shabazz or Mclemore just on size. Beals lack of size will hold him down the rest of his career defensively, which is why I am not hyped on him.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#27 » by MagicFan32 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:31 am

I wouldn't trade for him til after the season, if they want salary relief, then they'll take the Dwight TPE and Harkless?

I wouldn't trade for him til around the draft, hopefully we can get another first and something for JJ

The downside if you make this trade, you take yourself out of the Andrew Wiggins sweeps.

But if we traded for Gay it'd make drafting Nerlens Noel a real possibility, and i'd be fine with that, he's going to be a defensive force in the NBA
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#28 » by Bensational » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:33 am

Viper1500 wrote:Nice post by Bensational, and I agree on 95% of what you said but I'd definitely take Shabazz or Mclemore just on size. Beals lack of size will hold him down the rest of his career defensively, which is why I am not hyped on him.


yeah, i'm very intrigued by those two. i probably didn't stress enough how much they're right up with him in my eyes, and if we landed a decent draft pick this year, they would be top of my list. which would make trading for Beal redundant. but, at least he'd be an asset we could use to try and swing a deal for an elite SF, or another pick in the 2014 draft. the more chances we've got to go after Wiggins, the better!
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#29 » by The Effect » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:50 am

You guys do realize he gonna be making an average of 18mil per season the next 3 years right?

If we were once piece away that might be fine, but swapping him and JJ doesnt make this a contending team and that contract will kill us for a while
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#30 » by NickAnderson » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:01 am

Memphis laughs at these proposed deals in this thread.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#31 » by Viper1500 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 am

NickAnderson wrote:Memphis laughs at these proposed deals in this thread.

It sounded to me like Memphis was more interested in dumping his 3 year contract than taking back equivalent talent.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#32 » by Bensational » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:50 am

The Effect wrote:You guys do realize he gonna be making an average of 18mil per season the next 3 years right?

If we were once piece away that might be fine, but swapping him and JJ doesnt make this a contending team and that contract will kill us for a while


If you trade for Gay, it would be for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) you see him as the kind of talent that can elevate his game to an elite enough level to justify his contract, therefore making him an eligible trade piece for other superstars in the league.

2) you see him as a long term piece to the bigger puzzle.

if it's #2, then you can easily work around his large contract so that we're still able to sign another max player, as well as drafting quality pieces. If your plan is to target FA's, it would be easier to get them to agree to joining you if you've already got a star quality player for them to team up with.

As I pointed out in the proposal for Beal + Nene (comparable sized contracts) we'd still have around $10M cap space to offer in 2014/15 without making any effort to trade BBD or Afflalo.

Vuc
Nicholson
Gay/Harkless
2013 draft pick
2014 draft pick

(minus BBD + Aff's combined $13M in contracts) = $20M to sign another star and full out the roster.

That, right there, gives us 3 opportunities to land a superstar (draft picks + FA). And we'd still have a stable of young assets to use in trades.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#33 » by DaFili » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Bensational wrote:
The Effect wrote:You guys do realize he gonna be making an average of 18mil per season the next 3 years right?

If we were once piece away that might be fine, but swapping him and JJ doesnt make this a contending team and that contract will kill us for a while


If you trade for Gay, it would be for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) you see him as the kind of talent that can elevate his game to an elite enough level to justify his contract, therefore making him an eligible trade piece for other superstars in the league.

2) you see him as a long term piece to the bigger puzzle.

if it's #2, then you can easily work around his large contract so that we're still able to sign another max player, as well as drafting quality pieces. If your plan is to target FA's, it would be easier to get them to agree to joining you if you've already got a star quality player for them to team up with.

As I pointed out in the proposal for Beal + Nene (comparable sized contracts) we'd still have around $10M cap space to offer in 2014/15 without making any effort to trade BBD or Afflalo.

Vuc
Nicholson
Gay/Harkless
2013 draft pick
2014 draft pick

(minus BBD + Aff's combined $13M in contracts) = $20M to sign another star and full out the roster.


That, right there, gives us 3 opportunities to land a superstar (draft picks + FA). And we'd still have a stable of young assets to use in trades.


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We will be receiving an additional first round pick in the draft of 2014, you should take that salary into account as well. I for one am very excited about having 2 picks in that draft, as we have proven that we are great at spotting young talent so far with this regime. Vucevic, Nicholson and Harkless are all great young prospects.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#34 » by trebone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:55 pm

If they would do a Hedo/Harkless/ future pick for Gay I would be all for it,

I am of the belief that a lineup of

Meer/Moore
AA/JJ
Gay/Jones
BBD/AN
Vucci/Goose

can contend in a season or two.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#35 » by toofarjimmy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:13 pm

Bensational wrote:I've already stated that I'm a fan of Rudy's. But....

If the Wizards really do have Beal in the mix for trade talks (which I doubt), then I'd try to get in on that little party. I'd imagine they'd have to give up a stud like him for Gay to balance out the fact that they have little in terms of cap relief to offer - which is why I feel Memphis wouldn't take the deal, anyway.

MEM: JJ + Harkless
WAS: Gay + TPE + Harrington
ORL: Beal + Nene + Ariza

This will depend on how highly you regard Beal. He's had a very, very rough start so far, but I think he's still loaded with potential - and a well structured organisation and good veterans could really bring the best out of him. Nene's 4 year contract is a killer, but he is still a decent player, and he could very well remain as filler for a s&t. Ariza is a fill in SF for this season and next season, until we start gearing towards cap space for 2014, to build around a core of Vuc + Drew + Beal + our 2013/14 draft picks.

Washington get out of Nene's contract, and have $13M to spend on FA's this summer, to go along with their core of Wall + Gay. you add Al Jefferson/Millsap to that mix, and they'd at least be able to start winning games again, and that would make Washington happy.

Memphis get cap relief, a quality SG, and a SF prospect to groom in Gay's absence.

Vuc/Nene
BBD/Nicholson
Ariza/Hedo/Jones
Afflalo/Beal
Nelson/Moore

There is no way Washington do this trade. They lose a top three rookie, a very good center and a very servicable, athletic perimeter player whilst getting older in the process.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#36 » by toofarjimmy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:18 pm

trebone wrote:If they would do a Hedo/Harkless/ future pick for Gay I would be all for it,

I am of the belief that a lineup of

Meer/Moore
AA/JJ
Gay/Jones
BBD/AN
Vucci/Goose

can contend in a season or two.

First of all why on Earth would Memphis take that deal? Second that team contends for 2nd round playoffs, that is all.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#37 » by Cigamodnalro » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:41 pm

toofarjimmy wrote:
trebone wrote:If they would do a Hedo/Harkless/ future pick for Gay I would be all for it,

I am of the belief that a lineup of

Meer/Moore
AA/JJ
Gay/Jones
BBD/AN
Vucci/Goose

can contend in a season or two.

First of all why on Earth would Memphis take that deal? Second that team contends for 2nd round playoffs, that is all.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I don't think it'd cost all that much to get Gay, necessarily--a lot of guys are doing what he is doing for like half the cost, but they'll find a deal, somewhere, better than Hedo and Harkless. Gay is a very good player, and is the closer we're lacking this season, but he's not enough to propel us much of anywhere except squarely to the middle of the pack. Rebuilding is a really, really dangerous time for an NBA franchise, because it's easy to want to improve your immediate lot and to sacrifice the future in the process. It's easy to invest heavily in good-but-not-great players, and to end up as treadmill teams stuck between the 10 and 5 seeds. This is NBA purgatory, and this is where Rudy Gay would likely take us.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#38 » by toofarjimmy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
toofarjimmy wrote:
trebone wrote:If they would do a Hedo/Harkless/ future pick for Gay I would be all for it,

I am of the belief that a lineup of

Meer/Moore
AA/JJ
Gay/Jones
BBD/AN
Vucci/Goose

can contend in a season or two.

First of all why on Earth would Memphis take that deal? Second that team contends for 2nd round playoffs, that is all.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I don't think it'd cost all that much to get Gay, necessarily--a lot of guys are doing what he is doing for like half the cost, but they'll find a deal, somewhere, better than Hedo and Harkless. Gay is a very good player, and is the closer we're lacking this season, but he's not enough to propel us much of anywhere except squarely to the middle of the pack. Rebuilding is a really, really dangerous time for an NBA franchise, because it's easy to want to improve your immediate lot and to sacrifice the future in the process. It's easy to invest heavily in good-but-not-great players, and to end up as treadmill teams stuck between the 10 and 5 seeds. This is NBA purgatory, and this is where Rudy Gay would likely take us.

Agreed. Gay is too good of a player for us to do what we need to do. The best thing for us right is to aquire picks and young guys. Even if those picks aren't that high and the young talent isn't star calibre it gives us assets in which to a) aquire quality talent when our team is ready to make a run and b) surround any talent we have with the right pieces and role players.
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#39 » by Neon1 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:24 pm

I have zero problems trading for Rudy Gay. He is a solid #2 for a championship contending team.

Yes, i know we are not championship caliber yet, but you have to start somewhere. As for his contract, let me ask you this, If we had signed Rudy Gay this coming offseason to a 2-year with him making 17.9 & 19.3 million respectively, i feel hardly nobody would complain, and Henny would be championed as a master negotiator for getting Rudy to sign a short term contract that we could either re-negotiate (signing him to a lower per year average) or just get out of deal completely when he reaches the age of 28 (if we feel he either declined or did not raise play level), all while still having the cap space for after the 2014-15 season intact.

Btw, some of you guys are nuts talking about Harkless being the straw breaker if this deal were an actual possibility. The chances of Harkless ever developing into the level player that Rudy Gay is is remote as hell. Besides that, what the heck would we even need Harkless for if we had Rudy playing his 38 mpg?
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Re: Magic "have expressed interest" in trading for Rudy Gay 

Post#40 » by mlloyd10 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:22 pm

Bucks fan here, What about

Magic get: Gay
Bucks get: Afflalo
Grizzles get: Ellis/Harkless

Thoughts

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