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Post#1 bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:19 am by VegetaBull

hey floridians, from time to time, i get frustrated with flexibility issues with my bulls and look at what could be done with other teams. this CBA seems to be turning into an eventual game of one big name or all star plus some pieces around them, good rookie deals and such.

the magic havent seemed to be a big FA destination since 2000. You have some solid pieces in Nikola and AAA, but do you feel you need to try to trade for a big star? condense players perhaps. this is what i came up with. obviously the three key points are
1- bring back the hometown kid
2- get rid of turkey glues contract
3- send out fat fetus

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=az4wg65

I am just curious if this is the kinda moves you think you will have to pull off building a strong team?


nikola/ayon
STAT/harrington
budinger/q rich
AAA/ brewer
meer / barea

with a health amar'e, that team makes the playoffs.

nyc does it to get rid of stats big contract into smaller, shorter ones and bolster that old, injured front line
min does it to get reddick and to get some frontcourt help from mcbob
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Post#2 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:24 am by drsd

GM Hennigan is playing a money-ball game with expectations on how the new CBA will unwind. As for new FAs, the Magic will have good cap room in the 2014 season, when Arenas and Turkoglu are both fully off of the books, and with a new shiny arena and no state tax, FAs will come.

Until then, lots of mid-1st round draft picks will fill up the roster. Orlando could very well have the youngest roster i the history of the NBA next year (if Harrington and Turkoglu are shipped off, this seems certain).
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Post#3 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:53 am by Optimus_Steel

That's a terrible ideal for us on our current state.
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Post#4 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:54 am by CourtsideTV

stat is overpaid
glen davis and harrington will probably be shipped.

we need to go after kyrie irving.

kyrie + nicola = not 1,2,3,4,5,6,78
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Post#5 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 am by OMPunk

VegetaBull wrote:hey floridians, from time to time, i get frustrated with flexibility issues with my bulls and look at what could be done with other teams. this CBA seems to be turning into an eventual game of one big name or all star plus some pieces around them, good rookie deals and such.

the magic havent seemed to be a big FA destination since 2000. You have some solid pieces in Nikola and AAA, but do you feel you need to try to trade for a big star? condense players perhaps. this is what i came up with. obviously the three key points are



Let me address this one part. The Magic have had capspace a total of two times since 2000. Each time we have had capspace we have gotten the BEST free agents available. We nearly pulled off Duncan in '00 to go with GHill/Tmac and the year we got Rashard he as the best option available and the main reason we went to the Finals in 09.

Orlando is actually a pretty popular destination for free agents due to the family atmosphere, great ownership and no state income tax.

The problem is most of the good teams, yours included, DRAFT their best players. Aside from the Heat trio great players don't usually hit free agency they are traded or stay with their teams.

Mark my words I trust Mr. Hennigan and I think he is going to build a winner, rest assured when the team has capspace the Magic will be all over whichever free agents are available due to teams like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics rarely ever having capspace.
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Post#6 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:27 am by BadMofoPimp

FYI. Al Harrington is not a winner, but just added to salary cap hell for another 2 years.
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Post#7 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:28 am by tiderulz

I dont think too many people really consider Amare a "hometown" boy. He played in too many prep schools all over the place and has never really been a person you see around Orlando.
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Post#8 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:34 am by KingRobb02

OMPunk wrote:
VegetaBull wrote:hey floridians, from time to time, i get frustrated with flexibility issues with my bulls and look at what could be done with other teams. this CBA seems to be turning into an eventual game of one big name or all star plus some pieces around them, good rookie deals and such.

the magic havent seemed to be a big FA destination since 2000. You have some solid pieces in Nikola and AAA, but do you feel you need to try to trade for a big star? condense players perhaps. this is what i came up with. obviously the three key points are



Let me address this one part. The Magic have had capspace a total of two times since 2000. Each time we have had capspace we have gotten the BEST free agents available. We nearly pulled off Duncan in '00 to go with GHill/Tmac and the year we got Rashard he as the best option available and the main reason we went to the Finals in 09.

Orlando is actually a pretty popular destination for free agents due to the family atmosphere, great ownership and no state income tax.

The problem is most of the good teams, yours included, DRAFT their best players. Aside from the Heat trio great players don't usually hit free agency they are traded or stay with their teams.

Mark my words I trust Mr. Hennigan and I think he is going to build a winner, rest assured when the team has capspace the Magic will be all over whichever free agents are available due to teams like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics rarely ever having capspace.

Overpaying Rashard Lewis is not something to brag about. We were the only team with money that summer. There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.
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Post#9 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:52 am by OMPunk

KingRobb02 wrote:
OMPunk wrote:
VegetaBull wrote:hey floridians, from time to time, i get frustrated with flexibility issues with my bulls and look at what could be done with other teams. this CBA seems to be turning into an eventual game of one big name or all star plus some pieces around them, good rookie deals and such.

the magic havent seemed to be a big FA destination since 2000. You have some solid pieces in Nikola and AAA, but do you feel you need to try to trade for a big star? condense players perhaps. this is what i came up with. obviously the three key points are



Let me address this one part. The Magic have had capspace a total of two times since 2000. Each time we have had capspace we have gotten the BEST free agents available. We nearly pulled off Duncan in '00 to go with GHill/Tmac and the year we got Rashard he as the best option available and the main reason we went to the Finals in 09.

Orlando is actually a pretty popular destination for free agents due to the family atmosphere, great ownership and no state income tax.

The problem is most of the good teams, yours included, DRAFT their best players. Aside from the Heat trio great players don't usually hit free agency they are traded or stay with their teams.

Mark my words I trust Mr. Hennigan and I think he is going to build a winner, rest assured when the team has capspace the Magic will be all over whichever free agents are available due to teams like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics rarely ever having capspace.

Overpaying Rashard Lewis is not something to brag about. We were the only team with money that summer. There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.


I don't understand this line of thought, first Houston also had capspace at the time. Second, we had a huge run of success with Rashard that in my opinion the team wouldn't have had if we signed the other available free agent (Gerald Wallce). I also know we made it to the Finals with Shard being a main contributor on that team so overpaying means nothing to me as a fan. The team was destroyed by all of Otis's tinkering and trades, not Rashards contract.

Also, in hindsight its a good thing we signed Rashard to that big deal, we were able to trade him for Gilbert's contract which will be a big reason why we will be able to stay above the minimum salary threshold next season.
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Post#10 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:55 am by tiderulz

KingRobb02 wrote:
OMPunk wrote:
VegetaBull wrote:hey floridians, from time to time, i get frustrated with flexibility issues with my bulls and look at what could be done with other teams. this CBA seems to be turning into an eventual game of one big name or all star plus some pieces around them, good rookie deals and such.

the magic havent seemed to be a big FA destination since 2000. You have some solid pieces in Nikola and AAA, but do you feel you need to try to trade for a big star? condense players perhaps. this is what i came up with. obviously the three key points are



Let me address this one part. The Magic have had capspace a total of two times since 2000. Each time we have had capspace we have gotten the BEST free agents available. We nearly pulled off Duncan in '00 to go with GHill/Tmac and the year we got Rashard he as the best option available and the main reason we went to the Finals in 09.

Orlando is actually a pretty popular destination for free agents due to the family atmosphere, great ownership and no state income tax.

The problem is most of the good teams, yours included, DRAFT their best players. Aside from the Heat trio great players don't usually hit free agency they are traded or stay with their teams.

Mark my words I trust Mr. Hennigan and I think he is going to build a winner, rest assured when the team has capspace the Magic will be all over whichever free agents are available due to teams like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics rarely ever having capspace.

Overpaying Rashard Lewis is not something to brag about. We were the only team with money that summer. There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.


actually, we werent. Houston had money that year too, and NY did also.
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Post#11 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:12 am by Zmill

KingRobb02 wrote:There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.


While there is a difference between the two, it seems apparent to me that "prime destination" and "deep pockets" correlate strongly with each other.

And in my opinion without Rashard we never get past Lebron.
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Post#12 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:26 am by KingRobb02

OMPunk wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
OMPunk wrote:
Let me address this one part. The Magic have had capspace a total of two times since 2000. Each time we have had capspace we have gotten the BEST free agents available. We nearly pulled off Duncan in '00 to go with GHill/Tmac and the year we got Rashard he as the best option available and the main reason we went to the Finals in 09.

Orlando is actually a pretty popular destination for free agents due to the family atmosphere, great ownership and no state income tax.

The problem is most of the good teams, yours included, DRAFT their best players. Aside from the Heat trio great players don't usually hit free agency they are traded or stay with their teams.

Mark my words I trust Mr. Hennigan and I think he is going to build a winner, rest assured when the team has capspace the Magic will be all over whichever free agents are available due to teams like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics rarely ever having capspace.

Overpaying Rashard Lewis is not something to brag about. We were the only team with money that summer. There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.


I don't understand this line of thought, first Houston also had capspace at the time. Second, we had a huge run of success with Rashard that in my opinion the team wouldn't have had if we signed the other available free agent (Gerald Wallce). I also know we made it to the Finals with Shard being a main contributor on that team so overpaying means nothing to me as a fan. The team was destroyed by all of Otis's tinkering and trades, not Rashards contract.

Also, in hindsight its a good thing we signed Rashard to that big deal, we were able to trade him for Gilbert's contract which will be a big reason why we will be able to stay above the minimum salary threshold next season.

This is a bit of revisionist history by Magic fans. Houston did not have money and New York definitely did not have money. The Rockets had Yao and T-Mac and were trying their hardest to trade everything that wasn't nailed down to convince Seattle to take a sign and trade (which Seattle wanted no part of) and New York, well Isaiah Thomas.

Oly Sandor, Jul 1st, 2007 wrote:The Rockets already have two frontline players: Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. Lewis has done the math. He knows Houston would become very competitive with him as their third star.

However, there’s a significant roadblock-the salary cap. The Rockets have 62 million dollars committed to player salaries for next season...

The Associated Press mentioned that a sign-and-trade is the only option. Lewis is opting out of the final two years of his contract and leaving 21 million dollars on the table. He wants a significant raise. This makes a sign-and-trade with any team difficult.

And Houston, at least on-paper, lacks the parts to complete a sign-and-trade. Who would Seattle want back from the Rockets? Yao and McGrady are unavailable. The veterans on Houston's roster have little upside. There are no prospects. And there are no expiring contracts to match with Lewis’ salary.


The only other teams with space that summer were the Bobcats, who were never a threat, and the Bucks. who had to spend their money to resign Mo Williams. The reason we had money was because we cut Darko and freed up an additional 7 million.

I'm not saying Rashard was a bad player or a bad fit. I just said we overpaid when we didn't need to. Especially making it a sign and trade to get rid of a draft pick and add a seventh year. You're right though. As fans, it isn't our money so we don't have to count it.
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Post#13 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:28 am by KingRobb02

Zmill wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:There is a difference between being a prime destination and being the place with the deepest pockets.


While there is a difference between the two, it seems apparent to me that "prime destination" and "deep pockets" correlate strongly with each other.

And in my opinion without Rashard we never get past Lebron.

I used to think that too until this past summer when Indy had max money and Nash and Deron Williams wouldn't even look at them. I thought this team was a PG away from making some real noise and the small market thing killed them.
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Post#14 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:57 pm by VegetaBull

really good discussion guys, i appreciate it! i was bored and it was late. i couldnt handle anymore boozer bashing so i started lookin at other teams.

i know amare is way overpaid, the reason it seemed like a good idea is because ayon ( a seemingly decent back up) and nikola are on super super cheap contracts. between the three you pay what? 23 mil? our 3 front guys here in chicago next year are getting like 36 at least. reddick is a great trade chip, and budinger seems like a good fit to replace hedo.

sorry i didnt mean to step on toes as i dont know your team as well as you do, i know you got hill and tmac though, which is why i did reference 2000. the magic were a longtime favorite of mine, i just never liked dwight but you were my second favorite team in the east for the last 20 years id say.
i do think that the team i made in that trade machine though has a chance to beat up on the heat. size and youth inside, shooters on the wing, athleticism etc.

do you feel Nikola is the future of the franchise? I havent seen him that much. Its just really interesting to see the different dynamics of certain teams. we draft well but rarely make big trades and before boozer our last big FA was ben wallace. sheesh.
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Post#15 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:50 pm by G-Heel

I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Amare... this is a rebuilding team, what are we going to do with Amare?

If healthy, he'll get this team a few more wins, effectively push us out of building good talents through the draft. Once we're able to get more talent in, he'll be old. So if healthy, all he'll do is lengthen our rebuilding process.

If he get injured again, then we'll be stuck with a bad contract for a few more years. I don't see any positives from attaining Amare unless it's a salary dump situation where we get good young prospects and draft picks to take him.
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Post#16 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:16 pm by KingRobb02

G-Heel wrote:I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Amare... this is a rebuilding team, what are we going to do with Amare?

If healthy, he'll get this team a few more wins, effectively push us out of building good talents through the draft. Once we're able to get more talent in, he'll be old. So if healthy, all he'll do is lengthen our rebuilding process.

If he get injured again, then we'll be stuck with a bad contract for a few more years. I don't see any positives from attaining Amare unless it's a salary dump situation where we get good young prospects and draft picks to take him.

Plus I think the contract was declared uninsurable, so we wouldn't even get monetary relief if he came here and got injured again. He has the worst contract in the NBA and the Knicks can't even amnesty him because they were so eager to get rid of Billups.
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Post#17 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:51 pm by VegetaBull

KingRobb02 wrote:
G-Heel wrote:I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Amare... this is a rebuilding team, what are we going to do with Amare?

If healthy, he'll get this team a few more wins, effectively push us out of building good talents through the draft. Once we're able to get more talent in, he'll be old. So if healthy, all he'll do is lengthen our rebuilding process.

If he get injured again, then we'll be stuck with a bad contract for a few more years. I don't see any positives from attaining Amare unless it's a salary dump situation where we get good young prospects and draft picks to take him.

Plus I think the contract was declared uninsurable, so we wouldn't even get monetary relief if he came here and got injured again. He has the worst contract in the NBA and the Knicks can't even amnesty him because they were so eager to get rid of Billups.



joe johnson says hello :P
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Post#18 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:53 pm by VegetaBull

G-Heel wrote:I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Amare... this is a rebuilding team, what are we going to do with Amare?

If healthy, he'll get this team a few more wins, effectively push us out of building good talents through the draft. Once we're able to get more talent in, he'll be old. So if healthy, all he'll do is lengthen our rebuilding process.

If he get injured again, then we'll be stuck with a bad contract for a few more years. I don't see any positives from attaining Amare unless it's a salary dump situation where we get good young prospects and draft picks to take him.



you dont think this is a good lineup?

nikola/ayon
STAT/harrington
budinger/q rich
AAA/ brewer
meer / barea

especially if you still have cap space? and he only has 2 more years?

i guess my post was really out of curiosity of what fans of teams like the magic think is the best approach is all.
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Post#19 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:11 pm by tiderulz

Magic fans dont want Amare on the team.
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Post#20 Re: bulls fan with a question
Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:14 pm by KingRobb02

VegetaBull wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
G-Heel wrote:I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Amare... this is a rebuilding team, what are we going to do with Amare?

If healthy, he'll get this team a few more wins, effectively push us out of building good talents through the draft. Once we're able to get more talent in, he'll be old. So if healthy, all he'll do is lengthen our rebuilding process.

If he get injured again, then we'll be stuck with a bad contract for a few more years. I don't see any positives from attaining Amare unless it's a salary dump situation where we get good young prospects and draft picks to take him.

Plus I think the contract was declared uninsurable, so we wouldn't even get monetary relief if he came here and got injured again. He has the worst contract in the NBA and the Knicks can't even amnesty him because they were so eager to get rid of Billups.



joe johnson says hello :P

The money is about equal, except one guy doesn't get hurt and puts up decent numbers. I'll take Joe over Amare any day.

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