Can Oladipo be as good as Gary Payton?

[otownflava21]

I started thinking, Oladipo's mold fits similar to Gary Payton. A tall PG with in-your-face elite defense yet the ability to still score and run the offense. What do you guys think?






In case people need a refreshment, here's a few facts about Gary for comparison reasons...

Gary Payton is listed 6' 4 and Oladipo 6' 5.

Payton averaged 1.8spg over his entire 17 year career and 2.1spg for his 13 seasons with the Sonics. Oladipo is now averaging 1.6spg.

Payton's other career stats consist of 16.3ppg, 6.7apg and 3.9rpg. Gary, however, never averaged ~14ppg until his 3rd season, whereas Oladipo already will accomplish this in his 1st.

Gary Payton is a 9 time allstar as well as a 9 time NBA All-Defensive team member.

Gary came in 3rd place in the MVP voting for one of his seasons.


Does Oladipo have a similar game to Payton? Am I spot on with this comparison? I feel he can have just as a successful of a career as Payton did. I also know there are still people out there that don't make Oladipo out to be a point guard in today's NBA. But I do, imo.

[Smooth_E]

Statistically, maybe.. But remember, Payton was excellent at getting in your head too. That, to me, was part of his great defense. Also, he has the post up game which VO doesn't really have.. yet. In my opinion, no. Victor is more like Wade, as overused as that comparison is. Just my opinion.

[Neon1]

I started thinking, Oladipo's mold fits similar to Gary Payton. A tall PG with in-your-face elite defense yet the ability to still score and run the offense. What do you guys think?






In case people need a refreshment, here's a few facts about Gary for comparison reasons...

Gary Payton is listed 6' 4 and Oladipo 6' 5.

Payton averaged 1.8spg over his entire 17 year career and 2.1spg for his 13 seasons with the Sonics. Oladipo is now averaging 1.6spg.

Payton's other career stats consist of 16.3ppg, 6.7apg and 3.9rpg. Gary, however, never averaged ~14ppg until his 3rd season, whereas Oladipo already will accomplish this in his 1st.

Gary Payton is a 9 time allstar as well as a 9 time NBA All-Defensive team member.

Gary came in 3rd place in the MVP voting for one of his seasons.


Does Oladipo have a similar game to Payton? Am I spot on with this comparison? I feel he can have just as a successful of a career as Payton did. I also know there are still people out there that don't make Oladipo out to be a point guard in today's NBA. But I do, imo.

There are a ton of players who's height, statistics and even draft position can look very similar, but still are two very different type of players....this is another one of those cases. They really aren't similar, even defensively they are totally different in style.

[Neon1]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5whq5SBV4[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZwkvH8pa7g[/youtube]

[otownflava21]

They were even both selected #2 overall, how could i forget that.

I'm not talking EXACT similar games here. Sorry if I needed to clarify. I'm talking more so similarities in game impact by position, and statistical achievements and success.

An all-star point guard with elite defense. Maybe the comparison stops there, but how many perrenial all-star point guards with elite defense do we see nowadays? Slim to none.

[UCFJayBird]

If Victor stays committed to defense, I think he could fit that mold pretty well. The issues is that a lot of young defensive minded players come in and after 2 or 3 seasons their defense falls away in favor of offense.

He could certainly be that type of player, but it's hard to imagine him being as impactful as Payton, who was one of the best, if not the best, defensive guards ever.

[MitchellUK]

On the defensive end, maybe. Payton possessed the size, quickness and tenacity to defend both guard positions at an elite level. Victor definitely has that potential (although Payton is an all-time great in terms of perimeter D - if Victor doesn't achieve Glove status, that wouldn't be totally surprising. He has All-Defense potential, though).

On the offensive end, I don't see comparison as much. Payton owned genuine NBA point guard skills and instincts from the start. Victor is definitely a square peg in a round hole, and while he may adapt to playing some or all of his time at the point, there is nothing natural about his play there at the moment.

[Catledge]

I've watched plenty of Gary Payton, but I'll be honest and say that I can't remember what his game looked like during his first few years. I can, however, look at his stats and see that he didn't start anywhere near the elite player I remember him as.

From his third year, after starting almost every game his first two years: 31.1mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.9apg, .206 3p%. Those are not the numbers of a natural pg after two years of experience. And these numbers represent a significant improvement from his rookie year.

My point: The Oladipo pg project is nowhere close to over.

[rcklsscognition]

First off let me say that I don't think we've seen enough to make a decision one way or another. Right now though, I'm leaning towards no because of the intensity of Oladipo's defense. I grew up watching Gary Payton and I just don't see the consistent passion and fire on defense in Oladipo right now but that is based off of Payton's whole career, not his first season or two. He's not a real pest on D like Payton was for the majority of his career. Payton was the Kevin Garnett of point guards.

Stats wise though, I think Oladipo ends up 14-16ppg with 5 assists, 4 rebounds, and just under 2 steals a game which would be quite similar. I just don't think they'll be compared to each other though based on intensity and head games. Basically they're going to be different players despite similar stats if that makes sense.

[MagicFan32]

nah payton is arguably a top 5 pg ever

magic
stockton
isiah
payton?kidd?

[Bensational]

when i was in high school, my friends were massive Sonics fans and I was a Magic/Penny fan. so because of this rivalry, I was always aware of Payton, but reluctant to give him the respect he deserved. but since, man, he really was one of the greatest PGs of all time.

no way Dipo learns to run an offense the way Payton did. Payton had that awareness of where players were at all times, and like a chessmaster, it's like he had an idea of every possible outcome from his next move before he even made it. his handles were tight, his passing was on point, and his scoring was dynamic.

Dipo could become the defender Payton was. i'm looking forward to the day Dipo is guarding the opposition's best guard/wing every night. i'm sure he's willing to do so, but JV needs to let him do it. that kind of defensive intensity and desire could really influence the rest of the team.

[MitchellUK]

I've watched plenty of Gary Payton, but I'll be honest and say that I can't remember what his game looked like during his first few years. I can, however, look at his stats and see that he didn't start anywhere near the elite player I remember him as.

From his third year, after starting almost every game his first two years: 31.1mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.9apg, .206 3p%. Those are not the numbers of a natural pg after two years of experience. And these numbers represent a significant improvement from his rookie year.

My point: The Oladipo pg project is nowhere close to over.

Did you actually look at his numbers? Because the 4.9apg thing in his third year was an aberration, he averaged 6 or more assists in each of his first two years, and his 4th season (rising over 7 in his 5th and not dropping back below for nearly a decade). Payton's assist percentage in his rookie year was 30.8 - Oladipo's currently stands at 21.7.

The three point shooting also needs clarification. Payton didn't shoot very well from three early in his career, but he also didn't utilize the long-bomb with any great regularity until his 5th year, 1994-95. What he did do was get into the paint at will, and finish at a decent clip. He didn't have a season under 45% from the field until 1999 (the lockout shortened year).

It's true that Payton didn't score much in his first couple of years, but he was sharing time with Nate McMillan, Ricky Pierce was dominating the ball when he was on the court, and as I recall, K.C Jones and he clashed over the way he was used. He did well with the opportunities he was given, but he wasn't really afforded the kind of free reign that point guards get. It was only after a year with George Karl that he was given the keys to the team.

[KingRobb02]

nah payton is arguably a top 5 pg ever

magic
stockton
isiah
payton?kidd?

I would put him ahead of Isaiah, but behind Chris Paul and Oscar. Top 5 is not a stretch by any means when talking about complete package. Look at his resume:

averaged better than 20 points and eight assists a game for six straight years (something only Oscar Robertson can claim besides GP.)


The Sonics were in the top six in offensive efficiency every season from 1992-93 to 1997-98, finishing first once, second once and third twice.

In that six-year span his club averaged 61 wins a season.

I think the problem was that he just wasn't as flashy as guys like Thomas or Iverson. No crossover, no dunks, just killing guys on the low block with spin moves and using the pick and roll to set up that flat footed jump shot.

I know this isn't a Gary Payton appreciation thread so I will say that the comparison makes sense when you look at quick hands and quick feet combined with good size and the aggressiveness to be in your face on the perimeter. I think vic has it in him to be Payton like defensively, but on offense we should probably hope for Wade lite.

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[Catledge]

I've watched plenty of Gary Payton, but I'll be honest and say that I can't remember what his game looked like during his first few years. I can, however, look at his stats and see that he didn't start anywhere near the elite player I remember him as.

From his third year, after starting almost every game his first two years: 31.1mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.9apg, .206 3p%. Those are not the numbers of a natural pg after two years of experience. And these numbers represent a significant improvement from his rookie year.

My point: The Oladipo pg project is nowhere close to over.

Did you actually look at his numbers? Because the 4.9apg thing in his third year was an aberration, he averaged 6 or more assists in each of his first two years, and his 4th season (rising over 7 in his 5th and not dropping back below for nearly a decade). Payton's assist percentage in his rookie year was 30.8 - Oladipo's currently stands at 21.7.

The three point shooting also needs clarification. Payton didn't shoot very well from three early in his career, but he also didn't utilize the long-bomb with any great regularity until his 5th year, 1994-95. What he did do was get into the paint at will, and finish at a decent clip. He didn't have a season under 45% from the field until 1999 (the lockout shortened year).

It's true that Payton didn't score much in his first couple of years, but he was sharing time with Nate McMillan, Ricky Pierce was dominating the ball when he was on the court, and as I recall, K.C Jones and he clashed over the way he was used. He did well with the opportunities he was given, but he wasn't really afforded the kind of free reign that point guards get. It was only after a year with George Karl that he was given the keys to the team.

Yes, I did actually look at his numbers. I noticed, for instance, that his third year was the first one when he was a double-digit scorer. He increased his shot attempts by about 25% from the year before, and it came at the cost of playmaking for his teammates. It wasn't until his fourth year (after four years in college) that Payton learned to balance his scoring and assists, and even then they weren't allstar numbers (16.5 and 6.0).

I'm not saying Dipo will be Gary Payton. I'm saying that it's worth continuing the pg experiment with Dipo.

[JF5]

Ehhh... No he's more of a Wade/Stephenson mold....

[ivDT]

can oladipo be as good as shaq?

[otownflava21]

can oladipo be as good as shaq?

Hey thanks for the input, Troll.

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[MagicMadness]

Oladipo looks to have a promising career, but I'm not really seeing Gary Payton level here.

His stats might end up showing simliarities in the long-run, but the style of play, intangibles, and overall package do not really remind me of Payton. We're talking about a HOF and one of the greatest PGs ever.

And I'm not really convinced yet that Oladipo is suited to be a PG, either (but that's just me).

[Blue_and_Whte]

Look, a big part of Payton's ability to be a stopper was his **** talking...straight up, and this is a good example of why I dont compare these kids to players in that era. Not only was he a physically dominant defender he would talk so much **** it would get into peoples head and take them out of their game.

The kids nowadays are all about being besties and hugging before the game, and being friendly and all that bull so. no, for that reason alone he probablly wont be as good as Gary. As tough as Dipo plays on the court he doesnt have that mean streak that most young players lack. This generation is just soft.

[BadMofoPimp]

when i was in high school, my friends were massive Sonics fans and I was a Magic/Penny fan. so because of this rivalry, I was always aware of Payton, but reluctant to give him the respect he deserved. but since, man, he really was one of the greatest PGs of all time.

no way Dipo learns to run an offense the way Payton did. Payton had that awareness of where players were at all times, and like a chessmaster, it's like he had an idea of every possible outcome from his next move before he even made it. his handles were tight, his passing was on point, and his scoring was dynamic.

Dipo could become the defender Payton was. i'm looking forward to the day Dipo is guarding the opposition's best guard/wing every night. i'm sure he's willing to do so, but JV needs to let him do it. that kind of defensive intensity and desire could really influence the rest of the team.

It won't be JV that gets that out of him. Magic will need a Playoff Caliber NBA Head coach to do that.