Channing Frye

[flying_mollusk]

I said in 2016 people will talk about packaging 1st round pick with him just to ship him off. 30 games into this season and it is already happening on the board. So there it is. And don't pretend as if Frye's contract didn't influence Tobias position in negotiations. And similarly sized contract of Kendrick Perkins dead weight played crucial role in OKC not being able to keep Harden.

This thread will resurface a lot of times in future.

No, you said we will be "capped out and same guys start calling for Henny's head. Bird rights mean nothing if you can't afford to spend that much with new CBA in place (lookup Harden, James)." None of that has happened. We are not even close to the James Harden OKC position. (BTW, that analogy is atrocious on multiple levels, including that our owner is not as cheap as OKC's owner). Now you are amending the chicken little, world will end prediction to "message board posters will be unhappy with Frye" and patting yourself on the back.

And how would the Frye situation affect the Tobias negotiations when they happened nearly CONCURRENTLY?! Do you honestly think Hennigen was like "oh ****, I forgot I signed Frye a few weeks ago?! CRAP!"

I predicted both in this thread and first prediction proved to be correct. Being bitter of being wrong when it comes to judging Frye signing is understandable, but saying "none of that has happened" is a bit childish argument. When did you expect this to happen? While chasing FA's in December?

While second prediction (of Frye contract costing us talent in FA) can be evaluated after future free agency periods, so far it played role in position of Tobias team. Most people on this board expected us to resign Vučević and Tobias at 12M and 8M respectively. While Vučević was resigned for similar amount, Tobias was not.

Claiming this negotiations were going concurrently with Frye signing is not true, as Frye was signed in July. Henny touched base with Tobias agent in September and they were so far apart, that no real negotiations took place.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/tobias-harris

You claim that overpaying his less talented, 30-year old cousin had nothing to do with Tobias significantly raising the price from projected 8M (which turned out to be Frye's price)? Well, nicely put, I disagree.

You know what is childish? Bringing back old threads to pat yourself on the back. If you are going to be this self-righteous, you better make sure your claims are right.

And what evidence do you have that Tobias was willing to accept $8 million, but then increased his price after the Frye signing. Any actual article? Or are you just using speculation to prove your theory? Because if you are just making things up, I can do that too.

Btw, are you going to bring this thread up when it proves you were wrong? I noticed you didn't bring it up when we extended Vuc, since that fact weighs against your theory. So youll only rehash it selectively, right?

[p0peye]

I don't see Vučević extension going against my theory in no way (unless you're implying 8M would immediately prevent our first extension while we are still under the cap, in which case it is just silly). Spinning it around and changing directions of argument doesn't help you and will not be followed.

Back to the point, not only it is now clear that we have overpaid for Frye, but we have as many people clamouring to trade him just as there was people defending this signing before the season. Your claims of Tobias contract extensions negotiations going "concurrently" with Frye signing were proven false too.

Patting myself on the back or not, I will resurface the thread again if and when it does hurt us down the line. It is not a popular move, I agree, but it is good to remind people that we shouldn't blindly defend GM's, coaches or player actions, just because they are current darlings. In this regard there were many other posters, more vocal than you at the time, which are silent now.

[thelead]

I don't see Vučević extension going against my theory in no way (unless you're implying 8M would immediately prevent our first extension while we are still under the cap, in which case it is just silly). Spinning it around and changing directions of argument doesn't help you and will not be followed.

Back to the point, not only it is now clear that we have overpaid for Frye, but we have as many people clamouring to trade him just as there was people defending this signing before the season. Your claims of Tobias contract extensions negotiations going "concurrently" with Frye signing were proven false too.

Patting myself on the back or not, I will resurface the thread again if and when it does hurt us down the line. It is not a popular move, I agree, but it is good to remind people that we shouldn't blindly defend GM's, coaches or player actions, just because they are current darlings. In this regard there were many other posters, more vocal than you at the time, which are silent now.

This. As someone who hated what Otis did his last 4-5 years and someone who thought Henny was a breath of fresh air, that signing was a nightmare from day one. All everyone talked about was finding that defensive PF to alongside Vuc, and what do we do? Sign the complete opposite. It never made any sense with that contract. I didn't like the the B Gordon signing for 4 mil.... Until I learned that it was essentially a one year deal. Again, the length/money of Frye's contract, with his age, medical history, and play style NEVER made any sense. I've given Henny the benefit of the doubt on every move he's made but not with this one. This one was awful from day one.

[flying_mollusk]

I don't see Vučević extension going against my theory in no way (unless you're implying 8M would immediately prevent our first extension while we are still under the cap, in which case it is just silly). Spinning it around and changing directions of argument doesn't help you and will not be followed.

Back to the point, not only it is now clear that we have overpaid for Frye, but we have as many people clamouring to trade him just as there was people defending this signing before the season. Your claims of Tobias contract extensions negotiations going "concurrently" with Frye signing were proven false too.

Patting myself on the back or not, I will resurface the thread again if and when it does hurt us down the line. It is not a popular move, I agree, but it is good to remind people that we shouldn't blindly defend GM's, coaches or player actions, just because they are current darlings. In this regard there were many other posters, more vocal than you at the time, which are silent now.

Hahaha...youll point it out only if it adversely affects us, but never when it fails to adversely affect us. I always get my NFL picks right if I only point out the games I get right. So basically if we match Harris and keep our core together through Frye's contract, you still are not wrong.

Listen, nobody said the Hennigan nailed this one or that it was a great signing. Im pretty sure most of us acknowledged it was an overpay (even at the time of the signing) but that it was good for Vic and Payton (Vic's shooting numbers have been much higher). And yes, Frye has been disappointing based on wins alone (although really no different than expected for either Frye or wins). But come on man. Put some frikking context to this. You're monumentally overreacting and still overreacting months later. The fact that people think we can actually trade him means it doesn't debilitate us, just that they don't like him on the team. People who want to trade him now are stupid because they overreact and don't think about whether it will actually make us better in the short term. But he is immensely tradeable as our other salary numbers go up and his years remaining go down. A stretch 4 who can hit 3s at 40% rate always has a market. (this was pointed out when the signing happened BTW, maybe you chose to ignore it).

This has had absolutely no negative affect as of yet in terms of cap planning. You have provided zero evidence that Harris raised his price based on this signing. None. You've literally failed to prove anything your claim. I said Harris ran NEAR concurrently, and Vuc did too. Vuc runs directly counter to your argument.

Lets assume however, that your theory that Hennigan is an idiot who didnt realize this could affect negotiations with Harris was true. Lets assume your claim that Harris raised his price was true based on Frye. Why wouldn't Vuc also raise his price using that logic? And if Harris did raise his price, we could still extend him and still be under the cap. Do you realize how much cap space we have?

Your entire theory is that it would hinder us from bringing back the more expensive guys. You specifically used James Harden as an example. You said we would not be able to afford to keep guys with the new CBA in place. You fail to acknowledge that most of our core is young, and locked in on rookie deals. Also, one factor you still ignore. You said it would hurt us under the CBA. The cap is actually going up big time in the new CBA. So it actually is even less bad than the chicken little stuff you espoused. It was a risk, a risk that failed, but not a risk that killed us. It's not even in the same realm of some of the horrible contracts that have hindered teams.

[mhectorgato]

This. As someone who hated what Otis did his last 4-5 years and someone who thought Henny was a breath of fresh air, that signing was a nightmare from day one. All everyone talked about was finding that defensive PF to alongside Vuc, and what do we do? Sign the complete opposite. It never made any sense with that contract. I didn't like the the B Gordon signing for 4 mil.... Until I learned that it was essentially a one year deal. Again, the length/money of Frye's contract, with his age, medical history, and play style NEVER made any sense. I've given Henny the benefit of the doubt on every move he's made but not with this one. This one was awful from day one.

But the advanced stats ....

[thelead]

This. As someone who hated what Otis did his last 4-5 years and someone who thought Henny was a breath of fresh air, that signing was a nightmare from day one. All everyone talked about was finding that defensive PF to alongside Vuc, and what do we do? Sign the complete opposite. It never made any sense with that contract. I didn't like the the B Gordon signing for 4 mil.... Until I learned that it was essentially a one year deal. Again, the length/money of Frye's contract, with his age, medical history, and play style NEVER made any sense. I've given Henny the benefit of the doubt on every move he's made but not with this one. This one was awful from day one.

But the advanced stats ....

Hey man! Long time no see! Where have you been?

Yeah, about the advanced stats, I'm with SVG on this one. They're useful but not the end all be all of basketball. I find the advanced stats interesting but I still mainly go by the eye test. Frye never passed that test for me.

[mhectorgato]

This. As someone who hated what Otis did his last 4-5 years and someone who thought Henny was a breath of fresh air, that signing was a nightmare from day one. All everyone talked about was finding that defensive PF to alongside Vuc, and what do we do? Sign the complete opposite. It never made any sense with that contract. I didn't like the the B Gordon signing for 4 mil.... Until I learned that it was essentially a one year deal. Again, the length/money of Frye's contract, with his age, medical history, and play style NEVER made any sense. I've given Henny the benefit of the doubt on every move he's made but not with this one. This one was awful from day one.

But the advanced stats ....

Hey man! Long time no see! Where have you been?

Yeah, about the advanced stats, I'm with SVG on this one. They're useful but not the end all be all of basketball. I find the advanced stats interesting but I still mainly go by the eye test. Frye never passed that test for me.

Still watching the games - still frustrated with the lack of real progress - still wondering about the future of the team. So pretty much the same as the past several seasons

[Furinkazan]

camper aka dead wood Frye will prove you all wrong?

[G-Heel]

Not even half a season yet and this signing already looks stupid, but not like it wasn't a turd signing in the first place. There were a lot of optimism in this thread, lol.

[MoMM]

The question is: what can we get for him? What team would trade for Frye? Expiring contracts sounds good to me.

[MitchellUK]

[
This. As someone who hated what Otis did his last 4-5 years and someone who thought Henny was a breath of fresh air, that signing was a nightmare from day one. All everyone talked about was finding that defensive PF to alongside Vuc, and what do we do? Sign the complete opposite. It never made any sense with that contract. I didn't like the the B Gordon signing for 4 mil.... Until I learned that it was essentially a one year deal. Again, the length/money of Frye's contract, with his age, medical history, and play style NEVER made any sense. I've given Henny the benefit of the doubt on every move he's made but not with this one. This one was awful from day one.

The other thing to consider here was that we potentially already had that defensive presence to pair with Vuc in the front court on the roster. It could be argued that there was no reason to sign a rotation player at power forward at all last summer. Adding a veteran bench-warmer to provide some mentorship and play some garbage time minutes, sure, but $32m over 4 years to an aging player when we already had two decent prospects was a major head scratcher even before you factor in Frye's lack of fit and medical history.

Aaron Gordon is a tweener 3/4 right now but his long-term position in the NBA is probably as a 4. He's quick, mobile, has a good defensive motor, has shown (in a minimal sample size) that he has the confidence and possible ability to shoot from range.

Alternatively we have Kyle O'Quinn, who (it seems) has worked on his game to fit what Jacque wants from Vuc's front court partner, i.e he's added outside shooting range to the decent passing, rebounding, defense and rim protection he offered over his first two seasons.

It's possible that neither of those guys turn out to be the right long-term fit with Vuc, but as young players on a team in the midst of a rebuild, what did we have to lose by turning the reigns over to them at that position? Frye's signing certainly isn't resulting in more wins.

[thelead]

Not gonna lie, it's hard telling people that I'm a magic fan sometimes. The contracts that RDV signs are ridiculous.

Posted on July 7th. That statement still holds true.

[thelead]

Hennigan loves advanced stats and let me give you some
Tyler Lashbrook ‏@lashy 2m
eric bledsoe was three net points better with frye on the floor. dragic was 3.4 net points better. frye frees up so much space in the lane.

This is gonna give Payton and Oladipo incredible paint room to work

Absolutely but it still seems like a massive overpay.

Can we wait to determine the overpay until after we see him play Affalo was on a 4 yr 8mil/year deal and it looked great. Can we give Henny the benefit of the doubt before we go off the deep end

So, how you feeling about it now, mr positivity?

[thelead]

yup

[OrlChamps2030]

What are the expectations for Frye next season? We played him waaay too much this year

[LBPTarHeel27]

What are the expectations for Frye next season? We played him waaay too much this year

I think, more than anything, it comes down to factors outside his control.

-Does Aaron Gordon get consistent PT at PF?
-Do we bring back O'Quinn?
-What if we jump to the #1 pick and grab Towns?
-What if we jump and/or Okafor drops to us and we take him (or another big man)?

The biggest question mark is definitely Aaron Gordon. If he can stay healthy through the offseason and in to next regular season, I think he gets a good 30 MPG at PF (or at least, should).

[seeingstars]

You guys are still complaining about Frye when we all know we didn't even make the cap floor with his inflated deal?

[LBPTarHeel27]

You guys are still complaining about Frye when we all know we didn't even make the cap floor with his inflated deal?

I don't care about the guy's contract. I care about his impact on this team. So far, I would say it has not been positive.

...and the cap floor doesn't really mean anything.

[seeingstars]

Ad nauseum

[LBPTarHeel27]

Ad nauseum

If you are going to go all Latin on us, at least spell it right, LOL.

I do agree that harping on the contract aspect of Channing Frye is beating a dead horse...but discussing the impact he will have next season seems to be a perfectly valid (and "new") topic.