What kind of deal will Harris, O'Quinn, and Vucevic receive?

[mojosodope]

A lot also depends on which of the restricted FAs get extensions done. If their are several guys that are similar or better than our guys then that could dive the price down as they may be the ones that get the offer sheets like Parsons and Hayward are getting and our guys could be left alone. I think Vuc is right in the 12 mill per year area with Harris more in the 7-9 range and O'Quinn in the 4-6 range(though his number could drop with the addition of Frye. Harris could see a drop if Gordon starts stealing some of his minutes at SF as with the logjam at PF Harris could struggle to get a lot of minutes at PF. We shall see as I don't think we will be giving them extensions this summer as we look to preserve our cap space for next summer.

We paid about 8 a year for a 31 year old Frye, no chance Harris is worth 7-9 right now. The Frye signing set the bar for our youngsters pretty high.

After a couple summer league games I also don't see Gordon as anything more than a compliment to Harris at times. I think there is a considerable amount of development that needs to take place before he will be taking Harris' minutes at either forward spot

I am sorry but you can not judge Gordon as only a compliment to Harris after only a couple summer league games. Gordo very well could steal lot of minutes Harris was going to get. And it won't just be Gordon. Hark, Fournier, Frye, O'Quinn, and Nicholson will be vying for minutes at positions where Harris will also be contending for minutes. I think Gordon with time can very well steal more and more of Harris's minutes. He may not start ahead of him but I bet we will still see plenty of him on the court as Vaughn and Henny look to see what they got in Gordon. And Frye played well for a team that was a lot better than we were. And Harris didn't exactly light it up last year. I think Harris might have a little more value than Frye but not that much and I still think something around 8 mill is enough.

Actually....after we moved BBD and he was actually better from the ankle injury, he did light it up last year, so much so we started benching him and had him coming off the bench. A 21 year old with 3 years in the league under his belt with Harris' stats is going to command way more than 8 million.

Taking away minutes from easily your most offensive player who is also up for a contract extension to "see what we have in Gordon" is not something that usually works out well. They will compliment each other, but I don't see it being Harris' minutes that Gordon ends up taking

[MagicFan101]

I think it depends when we choose to resign them. There is expected to be a major jump in the NBA salary cap come 2016. A max contract for a player with fewer than 6 years of NBA experience will be about $20M per year in 2016. So $14M might not be so bad if we wait out Vuc's current deal. In terms of an impact on total cap space, that would be the equivalent of a $10.5M per year deal today. I think Vuc is worth that.

[mhectorgato]

We're two years in. Give it at least another 2 years before you proclaim this a failure.

Wasn't saying we're a failure.

Just debating that we are following the "Spurs model".

The "Spurs model" isn't what you described though. They're about drafting intelligent, selfless athletes. We seem to be doing the same. Will it work? That is yet to be seen but the Hall of Famers and accolades will come if it works out.

Yes they had Timmy in 2002 (and trust me, I know how huge he is to their success) but no one was calling Pop a HoF coach then. No one expected Parker and Ginobli to turn into HoF players either when they came into the league.

We are in a wait and see period just as they were 12 years ago.

Agree about wait and see. Other than that, imo we're not like them -- they had a core when Timmy came and continued to be successful.

Year before the Admiral got hurt, they won 59 games and lost in the Western Conf Finals.
When they got Timmy, they had another HoFer to mentor him
Duncan was dominant from his first season onward -- RoY, All-NBA
When they got Timmy, they won 56 games the next season
The only season Timmy didn't win 50 games, was the strike year (and they won .750 of the games)
Shortly thereafter won the Championship


The Championship team was not grown "organically" taking several years to become a playoff team, they were good already.

If anything we are following more so the OKC model: burn down the house and start all over again.

The biggest difference -- they hit grand slams in the draft, getting 2 superstars. When KD came into the league, it became immediately apparent that he was a rare talent.

It remains to be seen if we did that as well.

[mr2good]

Wasn't saying we're a failure.

Just debating that we are following the "Spurs model".

The "Spurs model" isn't what you described though. They're about drafting intelligent, selfless athletes. We seem to be doing the same. Will it work? That is yet to be seen but the Hall of Famers and accolades will come if it works out.

Yes they had Timmy in 2002 (and trust me, I know how huge he is to their success) but no one was calling Pop a HoF coach then. No one expected Parker and Ginobli to turn into HoF players either when they came into the league.

We are in a wait and see period just as they were 12 years ago.

Agree about wait and see. Other than that, imo we're not like them -- they had a core when Timmy came and continued to be successful.

Year before the Admiral got hurt, they won 59 games and lost in the Western Conf Finals.
When they got Timmy, they had another HoFer to mentor him
Duncan was dominant from his first season onward -- RoY, All-NBA
When they got Timmy, they won 56 games the next season
The only season Timmy didn't win 50 games, was the strike year (and they won .750 of the games)
Shortly thereafter won the Championship


The Championship team was not grown "organically" taking several years to become a playoff team, they were good already.

If anything we are following more so the OKC model: burn down the house and start all over again.

The biggest difference -- they hit grand slams in the draft, getting 2 superstars. When KD came into the league, it became immediately apparent that he was a rare talent.

It remains to be seen if we did that as well.

They were already good because of RC BUFORD, who taught once again mentored Hennigan and loves the guy. Rob is building a TEAM like the spurs. I said it this year, the Spurs were such a well oiled machine that they could have won the championship this year with a number of other power forwards in the league, they didn't need a past his prime Duncan to do it. When Timmy retires they will continue to be a successful team because of the system RC Buford and Greg Pop set up.

Which is exactly what Hennigan is doing here.

[mr2good]

I think it depends when we choose to resign them. There is expected to be a major jump in the NBA salary cap come 2016. A max contract for a player with fewer than 6 years of NBA experience will be about $20M per year in 2016. So $14M might not be so bad if we wait out Vuc's current deal. In terms of an impact on total cap space, that would be the equivalent of a $10.5M per year deal today. I think Vuc is worth that.

I absolutely agree with this. Which is why I expect Hennigan to work out a contract with these two players during the season, after all the big money hooplah spending spree free agency is over. If we let them go to RFA we will have to pay a premium to match the desperate teams around the league hunting for young talent.

[mhectorgato]

They were already good because of RC BUFORD, who taught once again mentored Hennigan and loves the guy. Rob is building a TEAM like the spurs. I said it this year, the Spurs were such a well oiled machine that they could have won the championship this year with a number of other power forwards in the league, they didn't need a past his prime Duncan to do it. When Timmy retires they will continue to be a successful team because of the system RC Buford and Greg Pop set up.

Which is exactly what Hennigan is doing here.

imo, that's a very simplistic way of looking at how that team was/is built.

[G-Heel]

They were already good because of RC BUFORD, who taught once again mentored Hennigan and loves the guy. Rob is building a TEAM like the spurs. I said it this year, the Spurs were such a well oiled machine that they could have won the championship this year with a number of other power forwards in the league, they didn't need a past his prime Duncan to do it. When Timmy retires they will continue to be a successful team because of the system RC Buford and Greg Pop set up.

Which is exactly what Hennigan is doing here.

imo, that's a very simplistic way of looking at how that team was/is built.

Exactly. Just because Hennigan replicating ONE aspect (good character players) doesn't mean he's doing anything like the Spurs at all. That's like saying Gordon is like LeBron just because he can jump really high. So, instead of telling mhec and I to wait several years to make judgment, you guys should just wait several years to make such proclamation; you know, when there's actual results or evidences of it.

[doct3r dr3]

Except Fournier, no international talent

Vucevic?

Nicholson?

[p0peye]

Except Fournier, no international talent

Vucevic?

My bad ... I thought I forgot someone, but off the top of my head didn't remember which one.

When we announced Saric as the pick, how many people said no not another foreigner, due to our sour taste still left over from Fran?

Splitter was drafted in 2007 by SAS and came over in 2010.

Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Mills, Splitter, Diaw, Belinelli and Baynes. They drafted Jean-Charles last year and he's not come over yet.

Because that's what you're supposed to do with late first round/second round picks. Draft and stash can payoff immensly compared to usual NCAA picks in this range that are out of the league in 2 years.

[ralphie9898]

We paid about 8 a year for a 31 year old Frye, no chance Harris is worth 7-9 right now. The Frye signing set the bar for our youngsters pretty high.

After a couple summer league games I also don't see Gordon as anything more than a compliment to Harris at times. I think there is a considerable amount of development that needs to take place before he will be taking Harris' minutes at either forward spot

I am sorry but you can not judge Gordon as only a compliment to Harris after only a couple summer league games. Gordo very well could steal lot of minutes Harris was going to get. And it won't just be Gordon. Hark, Fournier, Frye, O'Quinn, and Nicholson will be vying for minutes at positions where Harris will also be contending for minutes. I think Gordon with time can very well steal more and more of Harris's minutes. He may not start ahead of him but I bet we will still see plenty of him on the court as Vaughn and Henny look to see what they got in Gordon. And Frye played well for a team that was a lot better than we were. And Harris didn't exactly light it up last year. I think Harris might have a little more value than Frye but not that much and I still think something around 8 mill is enough.

Actually....after we moved BBD and he was actually better from the ankle injury, he did light it up last year, so much so we started benching him and had him coming off the bench. A 21 year old with 3 years in the league under his belt with Harris' stats is going to command way more than 8 million.

Taking away minutes from easily your most offensive player who is also up for a contract extension to "see what we have in Gordon" is not something that usually works out well. They will compliment each other, but I don't see it being Harris' minutes that Gordon ends up taking

Harris isn't suited to guard opposing 3s. Gordon is. Harris is a little more suited for PF where his athleticisms more of match with opposing PFs. We have a glut of forwards now with Frye and Gordon and Harris are combo forwards so he is going to have to contend for minutes. And yeah Harris is a good offensive weapon but so is Frye and he will likely be starting at PF so we very well might be giving lots of minutes to Gordon as a small forward.

Plus I think Gordon represents a little more value than Harris as far s our future plans are concerned(not saying that Harris isn't in our plans just that Gordon we envision Gordon as a bigger part of our future). So we are going to see what we have in Gordon. And Harris did play alright after getting healthy(which didn't help him either) but he didn't light it up as his numbers went down. He scored less and his defensive numbers, assists, and rebounds also fell. Sorry but he did not light it up.

But any minutes you give to Gordon is minutes that could have one to any other player and that includes Harris so Gordon will be stealing some of Harris's minutes. We will have to wait and see how much.

[mr2good]

They were already good because of RC BUFORD, who taught once again mentored Hennigan and loves the guy. Rob is building a TEAM like the spurs. I said it this year, the Spurs were such a well oiled machine that they could have won the championship this year with a number of other power forwards in the league, they didn't need a past his prime Duncan to do it. When Timmy retires they will continue to be a successful team because of the system RC Buford and Greg Pop set up.

Which is exactly what Hennigan is doing here.

imo, that's a very simplistic way of looking at how that team was/is built.

Exactly. Just because Hennigan replicating ONE aspect (good character players) doesn't mean he's doing anything like the Spurs at all. That's like saying Gordon is like LeBron just because he can jump really high. So, instead of telling mhec and I to wait several years to make judgment, you guys should just wait several years to make such proclamation; you know, when there's actual results or evidences of it.

Guys, exactly. It's just one example of how Hennigan is building a team around culture.

[mojosodope]

I am sorry but you can not judge Gordon as only a compliment to Harris after only a couple summer league games. Gordo very well could steal lot of minutes Harris was going to get. And it won't just be Gordon. Hark, Fournier, Frye, O'Quinn, and Nicholson will be vying for minutes at positions where Harris will also be contending for minutes. I think Gordon with time can very well steal more and more of Harris's minutes. He may not start ahead of him but I bet we will still see plenty of him on the court as Vaughn and Henny look to see what they got in Gordon. And Frye played well for a team that was a lot better than we were. And Harris didn't exactly light it up last year. I think Harris might have a little more value than Frye but not that much and I still think something around 8 mill is enough.

Actually....after we moved BBD and he was actually better from the ankle injury, he did light it up last year, so much so we started benching him and had him coming off the bench. A 21 year old with 3 years in the league under his belt with Harris' stats is going to command way more than 8 million.

Taking away minutes from easily your most offensive player who is also up for a contract extension to "see what we have in Gordon" is not something that usually works out well. They will compliment each other, but I don't see it being Harris' minutes that Gordon ends up taking

Harris isn't suited to guard opposing 3s. Gordon is. Harris is a little more suited for PF where his athleticisms more of match with opposing PFs. We have a glut of forwards now with Frye and Gordon and Harris are combo forwards so he is going to have to contend for minutes. And yeah Harris is a good offensive weapon but so is Frye and he will likely be starting at PF so we very well might be giving lots of minutes to Gordon as a small forward.

Plus I think Gordon represents a little more value than Harris as far s our future plans are concerned(not saying that Harris isn't in our plans just that Gordon we envision Gordon as a bigger part of our future). So we are going to see what we have in Gordon. And Harris did play alright after getting healthy(which didn't help him either) but he didn't light it up as his numbers went down. He scored less and his defensive numbers, assists, and rebounds also fell. Sorry but he did not light it up.

But any minutes you give to Gordon is minutes that could have one to any other player and that includes Harris so Gordon will be stealing some of Harris's minutes. We will have to wait and see how much.

Harris is actually much better at guarding 3's as opposed to 4's and the stats back this up. Not sure how you are so confident that Gordon can be considered a bigger part of our future as he has not shown much besides a few average summer league games. Harris has also not had the advantage of playing with a pass first PG so it will be very interesting to see how that benefits him as well as the additional spacing and PnP opportunities that Frye brings to the team.

While I'm not the biggest fan of labeling either Harris or Gordon strictly a 3 or 4, I simply do not agree with your assessment that Gordon brings more to the table besides athleticism at this point.

[ralphie9898]

Actually....after we moved BBD and he was actually better from the ankle injury, he did light it up last year, so much so we started benching him and had him coming off the bench. A 21 year old with 3 years in the league under his belt with Harris' stats is going to command way more than 8 million.

Taking away minutes from easily your most offensive player who is also up for a contract extension to "see what we have in Gordon" is not something that usually works out well. They will compliment each other, but I don't see it being Harris' minutes that Gordon ends up taking

Harris isn't suited to guard opposing 3s. Gordon is. Harris is a little more suited for PF where his athleticisms more of match with opposing PFs. We have a glut of forwards now with Frye and Gordon and Harris are combo forwards so he is going to have to contend for minutes. And yeah Harris is a good offensive weapon but so is Frye and he will likely be starting at PF so we very well might be giving lots of minutes to Gordon as a small forward.

Plus I think Gordon represents a little more value than Harris as far s our future plans are concerned(not saying that Harris isn't in our plans just that Gordon we envision Gordon as a bigger part of our future). So we are going to see what we have in Gordon. And Harris did play alright after getting healthy(which didn't help him either) but he didn't light it up as his numbers went down. He scored less and his defensive numbers, assists, and rebounds also fell. Sorry but he did not light it up.

But any minutes you give to Gordon is minutes that could have one to any other player and that includes Harris so Gordon will be stealing some of Harris's minutes. We will have to wait and see how much.

Harris is actually much better at guarding 3's as opposed to 4's and the stats back this up. Not sure how you are so confident that Gordon can be considered a bigger part of our future as he has not shown much besides a few average summer league games. Harris has also not had the advantage of playing with a pass first PG so it will be very interesting to see how that benefits him as well as the additional spacing and PnP opportunities that Frye brings to the team.

While I'm not the biggest fan of labeling either Harris or Gordon strictly a 3 or 4, I simply do not agree with your assessment that Gordon brings more to the table besides athleticism at this point.

I never said I was certain that Gordon will end up bringing more to the table just that the potential with Gordon is more than there is with Harris. And Harris is not that good defensively versus threes and the stats do not back it up as he has spent a lot of his time playing PF here. He isn't that athletic compared to other SFs. He can play SF as his offensive ability plays well there but defensively he does not match up well which is why he is labeled a combo-forward. And yeah Gordon has only played a couple summer league games but you can't judge him on that. Oladipo had struggles as well yet he got plenty of time and even more as the season went on. But There is also all the potential skill he showed in college and as a high school prospect that made him the 4th pick I the draft. Sorry but I think there is more hope for Gordon than Harris for the future. Whether Gordon actually capitalizes on that potential remains to be seen and we will just have to wait and see how it all turns out.

[drsd]

The O-Sen reports that they will start negotiating with Vučević just after Labor day.
O-Sen LINK

As the O-Sen goes out of their way to remind us that Nikola Peković and Marcin Gortat both got 5-year, $60 million deals, I guess they are hinting that that is Vučević's market value. As he can only get 4-years, that is a 4 for $48M extension. I think that is in the range most Magic fans have imagined.

..

[DaddyCool19]

I think it depends when we choose to resign them. There is expected to be a major jump in the NBA salary cap come 2016. A max contract for a player with fewer than 6 years of NBA experience will be about $20M per year in 2016. So $14M might not be so bad if we wait out Vuc's current deal. In terms of an impact on total cap space, that would be the equivalent of a $10.5M per year deal today. I think Vuc is worth that.

So the salary cap is jumping to 80M in only 2 years? I can't see that. I could see it raising 2-3M each year so it could end up at 67-69M in 2016. The max contract then would start around 16,75-17.25M.

I think Harris could get around 4/48M and Vucevic 4/56M when they hit Free Agency

[MagicFan101]

I think it depends when we choose to resign them. There is expected to be a major jump in the NBA salary cap come 2016. A max contract for a player with fewer than 6 years of NBA experience will be about $20M per year in 2016. So $14M might not be so bad if we wait out Vuc's current deal. In terms of an impact on total cap space, that would be the equivalent of a $10.5M per year deal today. I think Vuc is worth that.

So the salary cap is jumping to 80M in only 2 years? I can't see that. I could see it raising 2-3M each year so it could end up at 67-69M in 2016. The max contract then would start around 16,75-17.25M.

I think Harris could get around 4/48M and Vucevic 4/56M when they hit Free Agency

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fanc ... ing-ahead/

Looking ahead to 2016, though, the hefty contracts seem less like overspending and more like strategic fiscal planning. With a new media deal looming in 2016, the general consensus among NBA teams is that the salary cap will increase significantly. The NBA gets $930 million annually under its current television deal with ESPN/ABC and Turner Sports. Some expect the new deal will be worth at least double that. The league announced yesterday that next season’s salary cap will increase by nearly $5 million.

The cap is jumping nearly $5M this season, so your $2-3M annual prediction is already very conservative. Then the cap is determined based on league revenue and a MASSIVE new TV deal will be included in that. So yes, we all expect a major jump in 2016. Most projections I have read show a number around $80M.

[DaddyCool19]

I still can't see the Salary Cap that high. Maybe with the new CBA.

[MagicFan101]

I still can't see the Salary Cap that high. Maybe with the new CBA.

lol, why? I just showed you an almost undeniable argument for just that. You are familiar with how the cap is set, correct? You do agree that the NBA is still very popular and will secure a massive new TV deal, right? If you aren't so sure, look at the record setting $2 billion price tag for the Clippers.

They can opt out of the current CBA in the summer of 2017. So even if you really don't accept the reality of how a cap is set in 2016, players will see that new crazy TV deal and want a bigger piece of the pie in 2017.

[buriat]

I think there are two obstacles to signing Harris. One is Money. . He is a risk taker and won't be scared into a long term deal. The second is his undefined role on the team. I don't think he is interested in coming off the bench. If the organization is as divided as this board is about where he fits and how to use him, I see him waiting. He is very driven and doubt he will sign a contract while the Magic tries to figure out what piece goes where.

If the organization has something more than a generic vision for him and pays at the minimum fair market, then he probably signs. If he feels like he is an after thought, he will move on. The memory of his time with the Bucks is too fresh. He'd rather have the flexibility to make his own call rather than watch lineups being drawn out of the hat.

[MagicFan101]

I still can't see the Salary Cap that high. Maybe with the new CBA.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11207 ... 21-million

If you want more proof to the expectation of a massive spike in the league salary cap, read the linked article. It speaks of Lebron's decision to only sign a two year deal in Cleveland so that he can resign to a much larger max contract as a result of the new TV deal.