High character players over talent

[Orlwillbeback]

also, what are you suggesting we should have done? drafted noel over oladipo? drafted exum over gordon? both those decisions are debates in and of themselves.

[AshBlackstone]

that mentality wont get us in championship contention
you need elite talent, aaron gordon is a high motor low skill player, would have prefered a higher talent like randle tbh

Uh, did you watch any college basketball in 2013-2014? Aaron Gordon is very skilled outside of shooting. Randle is the energy player who lacks skill. Julius Randle did nothing more than bully guys at Kentucky down low and hit an occasional jumper. He has no post moves, and can't handle it.

Aaron Gordon, will end up playing small forward because that's where his skill set fits...can handle it, pass it, his super athletic, is an elite defender, great offensive rebounder, and can finish at the rim.

[Orlwillbeback]

Billips and Ben Wallace were ELITE TALENTS? You serious? Lol

Also, name one opportunity we've had to add an "Elite talent" and chose not to? I don't want to hear the words Dante or Exum.

History lesson for you:

Six years with Detroit, Billups made SIX straight conference championship series, TWO NBA finals, and won an NBA Championship. He was a FIVE-time NBA All-Star and a THREE-time All-NBA selections. In addition, he was an All-Defensive second team TWICE with his team mate Tay Prince. His Detroit trashed the MAGIC and made it in NBA history books by pulling a stunning first round playoff win after trailing the series 1 - 3 (I was watching these games). He also played for his country, Team USA. He won the NBA Finals MVP in 2004, helping the Pistons beat the Lakers in the Finals and was given the nickname "Mr. Big Shot" for making late-game shots with Detroit.

Ben Wallace won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award FOUR times, a record he shares with Dikembe Mutombo. In nine seasons with the Pistons (2000–2006; 2009–2011), Wallace made TWO NBA Finals appearances (2004 and 2005) and won a championship with the Pistons in 2004.

If these achievements won't pass on your "elite talent" evaluation, then I don't know what is.


oh well I can't help it: DANTE EXUM

Billups still isnt on par with other traditionally "elite" talents in the nba imo.

[MagicFan32]

that mentality wont get us in championship contention
you need elite talent, aaron gordon is a high motor low skill player, would have prefered a higher talent like randle tbh

Uh, did you watch any college basketball in 2013-2014? Aaron Gordon is very skilled outside of shooting. Randle is the energy player who lacks skill. Julius Randle did nothing more than bully guys at Kentucky down low and hit an occasional jumper. He has no post moves, and can't handle it.

Aaron Gordon, will end up playing small forward because that's where his skill set fits...can handle it, pass it, his super athletic, is an elite defender, great offensive rebounder, and can finish at the rim.

gordon can't score facing up, he can't score on the block, and he can't score off the dribble. our best hope is he gets really good at pick n roll and crashes the boards. you say gordon can handle the ball, but he can't handle it well enough to beat anyone off the dribble

julius randle has natural scoring ability and it will show itself

[NBAchamps2017]

character is a talent, practically speaking in the nba. Michael beaseley was uber talented but didnt have the right head on his shoulders.

Maybe you've got confused; Character is NOT a talent. I think the word you are looking for is "Values". Character = Values. Michael Beasley was uber (extremely, super) talented??? I rest my case. Conversation is over!

[Max Power]

Well put Champs. Character has to do with the integrity in which one carries themselves. Being a gym rat doesnt mean you have character. Aaron Hernandez is a prime example of this.


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[bigdogdylan5]

Last night during halftime of the Magic-Celtics SL game NBATV interviewed JV. The one thing that stuck out to me was how explitively JV mentioned that we have added 3 more high character guys through the draft and that they would worry about talent level after that.

Now I know that it's nothing new that we emphasize high character but it came of to me that talent level was an afterthought. The philosophy here is that with hard work, and the guidance of our coaching staff we get to be in a position to succeed.

How do you feel about this philosophy?

I feel like we will be able to contend nicely and have a team to be proud of but when it's all said and done I think talent wins championships in this league. I'm not sure this team has that one talent to take us over the top, probably Oladipo will be the closest one.

That being said, I think I'll enjoy watching this team next season, besides when we are on the free throw line...

I dont get it why does it have to be one or the other?? I think we got 2 very talented high character guys

[Orlwillbeback]

character is a talent, practically speaking in the nba. Michael beaseley was uber talented but didnt have the right head on his shoulders.

Maybe you've got confused; Character is NOT a talent. I think the word you are looking for is "Values". Character = Values. Michael Beasley was uber (extremely, super) talented??? I rest my case. Conversation is over!

as a scout and a gm you have to look at a player's total package. Everything adds up to the equation. That includes their character, the head on their shoulders, whether theyre addicted to smoking weed and a dumbass overall (beaseley) That's the point iam trying to make.

Larry sanders is another guy with great talent but has problems that keeps him from reaching it.

with gordon and oladipo you at least know they will have less of these impediments that keeps them from reaching their potential.

[Inqui]

I dont get it why does it have to be one or the other?? I think we got 2 very talented high character guys

I think a better discussion would be, "do Vaughn and Hennigan put too much weighting on character when selecting a talent?" That in itself is an interesting question and likely won't be answered convincingly for some time.

The best live experiment of sorts I can think of would be to stack the Magic against the Sixers over the next 10 years. Gordon/Payton/Oladipo vs Noel/Embiid/MCW will be an interesting one to follow. Although Philly's emphasis on talent has been more about chancing injuries than character concerns. And it goes without saying that the success of one side doesn't make a definitive statement about their philosophy.

[rcklsscognition]

I just found this article and if you haven't read it, it's a must read. It's from 2012 and it's long. It's Sam Amick writing about Hennigan roughly a week after the Dwight Howard trade.

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/08/1 ... ando-magic

As it pertains to this thread:

"There's a number of guys over the course of our history where we'll bring him into the organization, primarily through the draft, spend a couple years with him and then they'll move on," Martins said, citing point guard Chauncey Billups, a five-time All-Star who had a brief stay in Orlando in 1999-2000, and center Marcin Gortat, who spent his first three-plus seasons in Orlando before being traded to Phoenix and breaking out over the last two seasons.

"What I like about Rob's approach from the San Antonio system is, 'Make the right decision, develop your guys, keep them with you.' Sustainability over a long period of time."

[AshBlackstone]

that mentality wont get us in championship contention
you need elite talent, aaron gordon is a high motor low skill player, would have prefered a higher talent like randle tbh

Uh, did you watch any college basketball in 2013-2014? Aaron Gordon is very skilled outside of shooting. Randle is the energy player who lacks skill. Julius Randle did nothing more than bully guys at Kentucky down low and hit an occasional jumper. He has no post moves, and can't handle it.

Aaron Gordon, will end up playing small forward because that's where his skill set fits...can handle it, pass it, his super athletic, is an elite defender, great offensive rebounder, and can finish at the rim.

gordon can't score facing up, he can't score on the block, and he can't score off the dribble. our best hope is he gets really good at pick n roll and crashes the boards. you say gordon can handle the ball, but he can't handle it well enough to beat anyone off the dribble

julius randle has natural scoring ability and it will show itself

You only think Randle has natural scoring ability because he was so much bigger than everyone who guarded him. He played bully ball. But he doesn't own the size advantage at the next level. He can't just bully his way to the rim in the league. And since he can't handle the ball that well, he's basically just an energy player and jump shooter. He's a dime a dozen power forward. All I see is a slightly bigger Brandon Bass.

Shooting is the easiest skill to teach at the next level. That is Rob Hennigan's blue print. Draft guys who have versatile skill sets that do not have a completely broken shot, and then teach them to shoot.