Tobias Harris Extension

[tooler]

Why does no one ever point to the 10 years of guards that Frye played with before last year? Why does no one give Hornacek credit for the offensive system he implemented? Why could Dragic not have just had a leap year without it being mistakenly attributed to a guy that Phoenix was fine to see leave without even getting a replacement. The Frye deal is a headscratcher.

It's just a theory man. Every analyst on the Internet said "durr this makes no sense" and scratched their head. Some of us here attempted to figure out why it happened. Maybe it's a bad move in the long run but having a simple, plausible explanation beats saying "WTF" on a forum for an entire season. *shrug*

[OrlandoNed]

Truthfully, I don't have as much of an issue with Hennigan's moves. I am not sure paying Frye 9 million was such a wise move, but I'm certainly no "Henny Hater"

My comment is strictly a jab at the people on this board that spin every Hennigan decision as if they are above scrutiny.

He's made good moves, questionable ones that have worked out in his favor and questionable ones whose impact has yet to be determined.

The purpose of this message board is to discuss things and I'm just not about to turn a blind eye to every decision simply because Hennigan has made it.

How can you not see the logic in signing Frye to a very fair deal? Look at how Dragic and Bledsoe improved on offense from the year Frye missed to last year. Hennigan figured the same thing could happen with Oladipo and Payton and the rest of our wing players on offense. Hell, ignoring that big picture stuff. He signed a guy that can hit a 3 pointer. That's wise enough to me. We didn't have anybody on last year's roster that could reliably hit a 3 before we signed Frye.

I see the logic, but I just felt that we are a year or 2 off from truly benefiting from Frye the say Dragic and Bledsoe did, and being that Frye is on the wrong side of 30, I question the decision to sign him right now.

If Hennigan was eventually planning on sign him, why wait? As you said, he's on the wrong side of 30 so why wait when he's not getting any younger? Also, if you feel that we signed him a year or 2 too soon, did you forget Frye will still be under contract then?

I think you forget that most people had projected that Phoenix would be one of the worst teams in the league last year and look where they are now. I think Hennigan made a calculated risk in trying to recreate the massive jump the Suns made last year, and I think it's a risk worth taking to make this team better. I know we are 0-4 right now but it is still too early to write off the decision.

Just because I agree with most of Hennigan's moves doesn't mean I'm blindly doing so. I appreciate that Hennigan has a plan in mind and is making intelligent, big picture, creative and thought out moves to execute his plan and improve the team without taking short term, desperation gambles like Otis Smith used to do.

[mojosodope]

How can you not see the logic in signing Frye to a very fair deal? Look at how Dragic and Bledsoe improved on offense from the year Frye missed to last year. Hennigan figured the same thing could happen with Oladipo and Payton and the rest of our wing players on offense. Hell, ignoring that big picture stuff. He signed a guy that can hit a 3 pointer. That's wise enough to me. We didn't have anybody on last year's roster that could reliably hit a 3 before we signed Frye.

I see the logic, but I just felt that we are a year or 2 off from truly benefiting from Frye the say Dragic and Bledsoe did, and being that Frye is on the wrong side of 30, I question the decision to sign him right now.

If Hennigan was eventually planning on sign him, why wait? As you said, he's on the wrong side of 30 so why wait when he's not getting any younger? Also, if you feel that we signed him a year or 2 too soon, did you forget Frye will still be under contract then?

I think you forget that most people had projected that Phoenix would be one of the worst teams in the league last year and look where they are now. I think Hennigan made a calculated risk in trying to recreate the massive jump the Suns made last year, and I think it's a risk worth taking to make this team better. I know we are 0-4 right now but it is still too early to write off the decision.

Just because I agree with most of Hennigan's moves doesn't mean I'm blindly doing so. I appreciate that Hennigan has a plan in mind and is making intelligent, big picture, creative and thought out moves to execute his plan and improve the team without taking short term, desperation gambles like Otis Smith used to do.

Yes frye will still be under contract but further on the other side of 30. I dont think signing Frye was a terrible signing, I just don't see all of the logic in it.

I think we paid him a considerable amount, and if he is worth 9m a year to us right now, a Harris extension is worth way more than 9m per year.

Also trying to recreate what pheonix did with Bledsoe and Dragic is a little bit of a stretch IMO as Bledsoe is going into his 5th NBA season and Dragic has been playing in the league since 2008 (when Steve Nash was on the Suns). We simply don't have guys in our backcourt with that type of experience or who have received that type of tutelage and until they get some under their belt I don't see us getting the most out of the frye signing,

[OrlandoNed]

I see the logic, but I just felt that we are a year or 2 off from truly benefiting from Frye the say Dragic and Bledsoe did, and being that Frye is on the wrong side of 30, I question the decision to sign him right now.

If Hennigan was eventually planning on sign him, why wait? As you said, he's on the wrong side of 30 so why wait when he's not getting any younger? Also, if you feel that we signed him a year or 2 too soon, did you forget Frye will still be under contract then?

I think you forget that most people had projected that Phoenix would be one of the worst teams in the league last year and look where they are now. I think Hennigan made a calculated risk in trying to recreate the massive jump the Suns made last year, and I think it's a risk worth taking to make this team better. I know we are 0-4 right now but it is still too early to write off the decision.

Just because I agree with most of Hennigan's moves doesn't mean I'm blindly doing so. I appreciate that Hennigan has a plan in mind and is making intelligent, big picture, creative and thought out moves to execute his plan and improve the team without taking short term, desperation gambles like Otis Smith used to do.

Yes frye will still be under contract but further on the other side of 30. I dont think signing Frye was a terrible signing, I just don't see all of the logic in it.

I think we paid him a considerable amount, and if he is worth 9m a year to us right now, a Harris extension is worth way more than 9m per year.

Also trying to recreate what pheonix did with Bledsoe and Dragic is a little bit of a stretch IMO as Bledsoe is going into his 5th NBA season and Dragic has been playing in the league since 2008 (when Steve Nash was on the Suns). We simply don't have guys in our backcourt with that type of experience or who have received that type of tutelage and until they get some under their belt I don't see us getting the most out of the frye signing,

You know what? You are right, there was no logic at all in signing Frye. Hennigan just had a hat with the names of all free agents and just happened to pick Frye's name out.

[mojosodope]

If Hennigan was eventually planning on sign him, why wait? As you said, he's on the wrong side of 30 so why wait when he's not getting any younger? Also, if you feel that we signed him a year or 2 too soon, did you forget Frye will still be under contract then?

I think you forget that most people had projected that Phoenix would be one of the worst teams in the league last year and look where they are now. I think Hennigan made a calculated risk in trying to recreate the massive jump the Suns made last year, and I think it's a risk worth taking to make this team better. I know we are 0-4 right now but it is still too early to write off the decision.

Just because I agree with most of Hennigan's moves doesn't mean I'm blindly doing so. I appreciate that Hennigan has a plan in mind and is making intelligent, big picture, creative and thought out moves to execute his plan and improve the team without taking short term, desperation gambles like Otis Smith used to do.

Yes frye will still be under contract but further on the other side of 30. I dont think signing Frye was a terrible signing, I just don't see all of the logic in it.

I think we paid him a considerable amount, and if he is worth 9m a year to us right now, a Harris extension is worth way more than 9m per year.

Also trying to recreate what pheonix did with Bledsoe and Dragic is a little bit of a stretch IMO as Bledsoe is going into his 5th NBA season and Dragic has been playing in the league since 2008 (when Steve Nash was on the Suns). We simply don't have guys in our backcourt with that type of experience or who have received that type of tutelage and until they get some under their belt I don't see us getting the most out of the frye signing,

You know what? You are right, there was no logic at all in signing Frye. Hennigan just had a hat with the names of all free agents and just happened to pick Frye's name out.

C'mon, I'm telling you I don't hate the signing, I just don't see it as being as such an amazing signing as some of you have claimed it to be thus far

[tooler]

Frye is merely a promising signing at this point. If he helps our young guards develop, it will be a great one. Personally, I think he's worth every penny so I don't have to watch any twin towers lineups this year. Easy to say when it's not my money.

I think his contract will be an appreciating asset as the cap goes up. He should be easy to flip to a contender in year 3 or 4.

[BadMofoPimp]

I doubt Frye will be as useful by year 4 at the tail end of his career. He will be a serviceable backup center playing 5-15mpg behind Vooch.

[Skin]

I see the logic, but I just felt that we are a year or 2 off from truly benefiting from Frye the say Dragic and Bledsoe did, and being that Frye is on the wrong side of 30, I question the decision to sign him right now.

Frye's skill is as a shooter. His age won't take a toll against that.

Maybe you can explain why the timing is wrong. I don't really follow that. I know Payton and Oladipo aren't as seasoned as Bledsoe and Dragic were last year, but how does that mean the timing is off? I see it as enhancing the progress of our guys. Maybe you're talking about the winning impact... and how the wins would not be there as immediately as it was with PHX last year. I can see that POV.

[BadMofoPimp]

Frye's deal should have been 3 years and not 4. That 4th year will be the kicker being he will turn 35 or 36 during that time and I doubt he will be playing much by then. He is already more of a role player as opposed to a 33mpg starting material.

[mojosodope]

I see the logic, but I just felt that we are a year or 2 off from truly benefiting from Frye the say Dragic and Bledsoe did, and being that Frye is on the wrong side of 30, I question the decision to sign him right now.

Frye's skill is as a shooter. His age won't take a toll against that.

Maybe you can explain why the timing is wrong. I don't really follow that. I know Payton and Oladipo aren't as seasoned as Bledsoe and Dragic were last year, but how does that mean the timing is off? I see it as enhancing the progress of our guys. Maybe you're talking about the winning impact... and how the wins would not be there as immediately as it was with PHX last year. I can see that POV.

I am speaking from a wins standpoint. The signing does make sense because there is no wrong time to get better, but Frye's age combined with how much and how long we signed him for makes me feel like we signed him with the intent to win more games. I don't see us as ready to make the jump to significantly more games yet and that is why I question the timing

[KingRobb02]

Frye's skill is as a shooter. His age won't take a toll against that.

Tell that to Rashard

[tooler]

Frye's deal should have been 3 years and not 4. That 4th year will be the kicker being he will turn 35 or 36 during that time and I doubt he will be playing much by then. He is already more of a role player as opposed to a 33mpg starting material.

If you were a GM for a contender and had the opportunity to rent for one year a veteran F/C who shoots 3s and draws legit attention from opposing defenses and his contract was only $7.5M with, say, a $90M cap, what would you be willing to give up?

A couple second round picks?
Maybe a young prospect who never gets playing time?

Let's see... has our GM ever demonstrated an ability to find value out of those assets?

[mojosodope]

Frye's deal should have been 3 years and not 4. That 4th year will be the kicker being he will turn 35 or 36 during that time and I doubt he will be playing much by then. He is already more of a role player as opposed to a 33mpg starting material.

If you were a GM for a contender and had the opportunity to rent for one year a veteran F/C who shoots 3s and draws legit attention from opposing defenses and his contract was only $7.5M with, say, a $90M cap, what would you be willing to give up?

A couple second round picks?
Maybe a young prospect who never gets playing time?

Let's see... has our GM ever demonstrated an ability to find value out of those assets?

Very true, to play devils advocate though. Part of the reason Frye is so effective is because he is a 7 foot center who "can" still bang inside, thus drawing a big who is typically uncomfortable defending on the wing out.

At 35, I don't see him as such an inside threat but more of just a tall jump shooter with average athleticism.

[KingRobb02]

Frye's deal should have been 3 years and not 4. That 4th year will be the kicker being he will turn 35 or 36 during that time and I doubt he will be playing much by then. He is already more of a role player as opposed to a 33mpg starting material.

If you were a GM for a contender and had the opportunity to rent for one year a veteran F/C who shoots 3s and draws legit attention from opposing defenses and his contract was only $7.5M with, say, a $90M cap, what would you be willing to give up?

A couple second round picks?
Maybe a young prospect who never gets playing time?

Let's see... has our GM ever demonstrated an ability to find value out of those assets?

I think the problem with that thinking is that tall guys who can shoot are pretty easy to find these days. Like last year, Frye was finally getting noticed nationally, but if a team wanted to make a deal there were a half dozen guys available who provide the same shooting ability. Hawes, Tolliver, McRoberts, Novak, Ilyasova, pat Patterson off the top of my head. That excludes guys like Dirk, Love, Durant and Ryan Anderson who probably aren't on the table. What I'm saying is that most teams have tall guys who can shoot already and the ones who don't probably don't feel any pressure to add a one dimensional guy like Frye at such a high cost. I bet there are even some posters here who still think we gave up too early on Nicholson being that guy for us.

[Skin]

Frye's skill is as a shooter. His age won't take a toll against that.

Tell that to Rashard

Shard could still shoot. Not as well as when he had Dwight drawing doubles, but he still performed well for the Heat, even starting at times in the Finals. You can look at his even older teammate Ray Allen if you need another example. It's damn hard to become a good shooter, but once you get there, you don't lose it easily. On the other hand, players who's games are built on God given natural speed and jumping abiliity from birth have a more rapid decline rate as they get older. Easy come, easy go. Retension comes when hard work is put in.

[OrlandO]

Just fyi... Frye will be 34 during the final year of his deal. He won't turn 35 until the third round of the playoffs of that year. Also, about a dozen teams were interested in him this summer.

[KingRobb02]

Frye's skill is as a shooter. His age won't take a toll against that.

Tell that to Rashard

Shard could still shoot. Not as well as when he had Dwight drawing doubles, but he still performed well for the Heat, even starting at times in the Finals. You can look at his even older teammate Ray Allen if you need another example. It's damn hard to become a good shooter, but once you get there, you don't lose it easily. On the other hand, players who's games are built on God given natural speed and jumping abiliity from birth have a more rapid decline rate as they get older. Easy come, easy go. Retension comes when hard work is put in.

You're probably right. I just remember Rashard shooting like 23% in Washington before they cut him and then some graphic last year saying he was having his worst 3% since 2000 or something like that. I also remember Troy Murphy and Pat Garrity losing their touch pretty abruptly. Ray is pretty amazing still. Don't know if it's a set shooter vs jump shooter thing.

[KingRobb02]

Just fyi... Frye will be 34 during the final year of his deal. He won't turn 35 until the third round of the playoffs of that year. Also, about a dozen teams were interested in him this summer.

Were a dozen teams interested in him at that price, or did we outbid people looking to offer him the MLE? I remember him being around 50th on the NBA.com free agency rankings.

[OrlandoNed]

Just fyi... Frye will be 34 during the final year of his deal. He won't turn 35 until the third round of the playoffs of that year. Also, about a dozen teams were interested in him this summer.

Were a dozen teams interested in him at that price, or did we outbid people looking to offer him the MLE? I remember him being around 50th on the NBA.com free agency rankings.

Even if we did have to outbid other teams to get Frye, does it really matter that we had to if it doesn't hurt us financially?

[tiderulz]

Just fyi... Frye will be 34 during the final year of his deal. He won't turn 35 until the third round of the playoffs of that year. Also, about a dozen teams were interested in him this summer.

Were a dozen teams interested in him at that price, or did we outbid people looking to offer him the MLE? I remember him being around 50th on the NBA.com free agency rankings.

Even if we did have to outbid other teams to get Frye, does it really matter that we had to if it doesn't hurt us financially?

this argument again. It can hurt us. you dont spend more money just because you can. You spend wisely all the time. we may not know now that it hurts us. But in 2 years, when we are extending other players, $3mil extra (just picking a number) might be able to get us something that pushes us further in the playoffs.